GALATIANS 1:8 WHO IS ACCURSED ?

[Resurrection Priest]

BOTH heart circumcision AND flesh circumcision

[This is the LORD speaking] "For all the nations are uncircumcised (of flesh), and all the house of Israel are uncircumcised of heart." (Jer 9:26 NAS)  The LORD says He will destroy all of them.

Ezekiel 44:9 "This is what the sovereign LORD says: No foreigner, who is and uncircumcised in heart and flesh among all the foreigners who are among the people of Israel, will enter into my sanctuary." (NET)

 

Question:  How would the LORD prevent someone "uncircumcised in heart" from entering His sanctuary?  Is He going to strike them dead just as they try to enter, much like the Jews would strike dead any physically uncircumcised man who attempted to enter the Temple court at Jerusalem?   Did anyone report seeing such happen at Jerusalem? 

Answer:  No.  (Except maybe for King Uzziah, but he was inside the Temple trying to burn incense.)

This tells us that the Temple described in Ezekiel 44 may not be a literal Temple.  The Temple that Ezekiel was shown may be symbolic.   Or it may represent an interface between earth and the "true Tabernacle" which is "Heaven itself".  

It is easy to quote just isolated verses from Ezekiel to say that this Temple is literal.  For instance Ezekiel 37:27-28.  "And my tabernacle shall be among them; and I will be to them a God, and they shall be my people. 28 And the nations shall know that I am the Lord that sanctifies them, when my sanctuary is in the midst of them for ever." (Eze 37:27 LXA)  OK.  But we know from Revelation that God and the Lamb ARE the forever Temple of the New Jerusalem. 

 "I did not see a temple in the city, because the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple." Revelation 21:22

 

The "circumcision of the heart" is only performed by Christ our High Priest.  It is only performed with our consent.  And it is not limited to males. 

 

I believe the "circumcision" of Abraham and Israelite males was also SYMBOLIC - of the future "circumcision". 

It symbolized the LORD's promise to loose us from this "flesh" we live inside of.  When we receive our new "spiritual body" - the old "flesh" will be gone.  Only those with this circumcision will be able to enter heaven itself.  THAT is HOW  He can keep out people who are "uncircumcised in flesh".  He doesn't make them immortal.

Joshua (a TYPE of Jesus) lead Israel across the Jordan - that rolled back as a scroll.  Jesus will lead us through the sky - that rolls back as a scroll.

Then Joshua "circumcised the people."  Jesus will circumcise His redeemed Israel.  The old "flesh" will be gone.

Then Israel ate the Passover, in the land.  And Jesus will eat the Passover "new" with us - in the Kingdom. 

 

[Resurrection Priest]

29 minutes ago, Blood Bought 1953 said:

 

I hope Newbies notice how this guy is 90% dependent on Old Testament verses to substantiate his Legalistic views. The irony is incredulous ......Paul write the Book of Galations to put an END to such blindness...  “ They see yet they don’t see”  “ Christ is the END of the Law for ALL that believe.” A five year old could see it— unless they were blinded by Satan.Shakespeare nailed this one— “ Satan can quote Scripture for his purpose ........what a godly outside a lie can have”

This is NOT to be misconstrued as an attack on “ Bible guy”........ I am just throwing this stuff out there for people to see......I disagree with that guy’s Doctrine, nothing more, nothing less.....

 

 

 

 

Sorry BloodBought 1953.  I didn't feel that good reading your reply.  You did seem to be "attacking" BibleGuy for his beliefs, rather than reasoning from Scripture.  I don't think we should publicly call the "other" guy "blind", even if you vigorously disagree with his interpretations of Scripture.

I don't agree with a lot of what BibleGuy posts either.  But I haven't called him blind, or stubborn, or "legalist", or supporting Antichrist, or "against Christ", etc. etc. etc. etc.   Our feet must be shod with the Gospel of Peace, which means we must try to treat each other with respect, even when we hold opposite views.

[Blood Bought 1953]

5 minutes ago, Resurrection Priest said:

Sorry BloodBought 1953.  I didn't feel that good reading your reply.  You did seem to be "attacking" BibleGuy for his beliefs, rather than reasoning from Scripture.  I don't think we should publicly call the "other" guy "blind", even if you vigorously disagree with his interpretations of Scripture.

I don't agree with a lot of what BibleGuy posts either.  But I haven't called him blind, or stubborn, or "legalist", or supporting Antichrist, or "against Christ", etc. etc. etc. etc.   Our feet must be shod with the Gospel of Peace, which means we must try to treat each other with respect, even when we hold opposite views.

 

It is my fault......I need to go out of my way to let people know that I am not really speaking to the Poster most of the time.....nobody EVER changes their mind in here.....I seldom even think of the Poster as I reply to them.....I try to use the Legalists and the Accusers Of The Brethren who attack all of those that “ hold  fast  to the Gospel Of Grace” Plus Nothing , as “ Springboards” to get the Truth out there. Sometimes when  I say “ you”, I am really speaking to a generic “ you”......I constantly strive to be a better Ambassador Of Love .Sometimes I fail. Sometimes a real concern that stems from Love, doesn’t look “Sweet and Lovey-Dovey”. Jesus and Paul both used sharp rebukes ( brood Of vipers....or.....in reference to circumcision , “ I wish you  would just go and cut the whole thing off! )......Anyway, I will continue to try to a better job....You pray for me and I will pray for you..... God bless...

[Michael37]

30 minutes ago, Resurrection Priest said:

Sorry BloodBought 1953.  I didn't feel that good reading your reply.  You did seem to be "attacking" BibleGuy for his beliefs, rather than reasoning from Scripture.  I don't think we should publicly call the "other" guy "blind", even if you vigorously disagree with his interpretations of Scripture.

I don't agree with a lot of what BibleGuy posts either.  But I haven't called him blind, or stubborn, or "legalist", or supporting Antichrist, or "against Christ", etc. etc. etc. etc.   Our feet must be shod with the Gospel of Peace, which means we must try to treat each other with respect, even when we hold opposite views.

I'm with Blood Bought...see Scripture below...says it all!

Tit 1:13
(13)  This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;
 

[Blood Bought 1953]

1 minute ago, Cletus said:

living in a way that pleases God is not legalisim.  Saying the cross does not profit and you must observe the law is what constitutes a legalist. 

 

 

True, “living in a way that pleases God is not “ legalism”......... it becomes Legalism when one preaches  that “ living  in a way that pleases God ( with anything that adds to the Gospel Of 1cor15:1-4)  saves a person  or KEEPS them saved.....Obedience is great .....Repentance is great....They just are NOT the instruments that God uses for Salvation.....Faith that  Jesus died for YOUR sins and rose from the dead and RESTING in the fact that Salvation is ALL OF HIM and NONE OF YOU  is what saves, Despite well-intentioned, but erroneous add-ons.

Rest in the Gospel Of Grace as God ordered in Hebrews 7 or be charged with “ UNBELIEF” akin to the Jews that died in the Wilderness because they lacked the Belief and Trust to enter The Promised Land...God is testing all  today just as the Jews were tested. How will they respond to the Gospel— that is our test of Faith for today ..... We are no better or different from the ancient Jews......do you really think we will escape this lifetime without God testing Our Faith and Trust in Him? God wants to see if you will Trust Him  or Satan..God Has Promised to save us if we simply Believe His Gospel- Plus NOTHING. Satan whispers in our ears, “ Yea, hath God REALLY said that?...... No way! Keep one foot firmly planted in something that YOU do for a little “ insurance” in case God does not really mean what He says”. Sooooooooo.....who ya gonna listen to ? God or Satan, the Father Of Lies who exists solely to sew doubt in the minds of us humans. 

[BibleGuy]

9 hours ago, Resurrection Priest said:

I thought Abraham had the rite performed on himself, and every male of his household, regardless of age, including all his servants.

Isn't the story of Abraham in Torah (the 5 Book of Moses)? 

If you're saying that TORAH is only those commands given by the LORD through Moses, then that leaves out Genesis and several chapters of Exodus. 

Genesis 17:10 "This is My covenant, which you shall keep, between Me and you and your descendants after you: every male among you shall be circumcised. 11 "And you shall be circumcised in the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be the sign of the covenant between Me and you. 12 "And every male among you who is eight days old shall be circumcised throughout your generations, a servant who is born in the house or who is bought with money from any foreigner, who is not of your descendants. 13 "A servant who is born in your house or who is bought with your money shall surely be circumcised; thus shall My covenant be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant." (NAS)

Genesis 17:23 Then Abraham took Ishmael his son (age 14), and all the servants who were born in his house and all who were bought with his money, every male among the men of Abraham's household, and circumcised the flesh of their foreskin in the very same day, as God had said to him. (NAS)

"I thought Abraham had the rite performed on himself, and every male of his household, regardless of age, including all his servants."

That's not referring to adult-male-Gentile-converts.

AND, the ONGOING mark of Abrahamic circumcision is via INFANT circumcision (Ge.17:12).

Moses agrees that the ONGOING mark of circumcision is via INFANT circumcision (Lev.12:3).

That's explains how a 100% Torah-obedient Paul can uphold ALL Torah (2Ti.3:16) while excluding adult-male-Gentile-converts from circumcision (1Cor.7:19).....it's because Torah does not even require it.

That explains why adult-male-Gentile-convert circumcision is also opposed by the Torah-obedient apostles in the Jerusalem Council in Ac. 15......because Torah does not even require it.

 

"Genesis 17:23 Then Abraham took Ishmael his son (age 14), and all the servants who were born in his house and all who were bought with his money, every male among the men of Abraham's household, and circumcised the flesh of their foreskin in the very same day, as God had said to him. (NAS)"

Again, this is not the ONGOING mark....this is the INITIAL mark.

Again, this is NOT in reference to adult-male-Gentile-converts.....this is in reference to those in Abraham's HOUSEHOLD.

The ONGOING mark is via INFANT circumcision (Ge.17:12).

 

My position MUST be true.

Otherwise Paul's statement is SELF-CONTRADICTORY in 1Cor.7:19.

 

And sure enough, in the Torah of Moses, we do NOT see the ONGOING mark required of adult-male-Gentile-converts....but only via INFANTS (Lev.12:3).

 

blessings...

 

[BibleGuy]

5 hours ago, Blood Bought 1953 said:

 

True, “living in a way that pleases God is not “ legalism”......... it becomes Legalism when one preaches  that “ living  in a way that pleases God ( with anything that adds to the Gospel Of 1cor15:1-4)  saves a person  or KEEPS them saved.....Obedience is great .....Repentance is great....They just are NOT the instruments that God uses for Salvation.....Faith that  Jesus died for YOUR sins and rose from the dead and RESTING in the fact that Salvation is ALL OF HIM and NONE OF YOU  is what saves, Despite well-intentioned, but erroneous add-ons.

Rest in the Gospel Of Grace as God ordered in Hebrews 7 or be charged with “ UNBELIEF” akin to the Jews that died in the Wilderness because they lacked the Belief and Trust to enter The Promised Land...God is testing all  today just as the Jews were tested. How will they respond to the Gospel— that is our test of Faith for today ..... We are no better or different from the ancient Jews......do you really think we will escape this lifetime without God testing Our Faith and Trust in Him? God wants to see if you will Trust Him  or Satan..God Has Promised to save us if we simply Believe His Gospel- Plus NOTHING. Satan whispers in our ears, “ Yea, hath God REALLY said that?...... No way! Keep one foot firmly planted in something that YOU do for a little “ insurance” in case God does not really mean what He says”. Sooooooooo.....who ya gonna listen to ? God or Satan, the Father Of Lies who exists solely to sew doubt in the minds of us humans. 

" it becomes Legalism when one preaches  that “ living  in a way that pleases God ( with anything that adds to the Gospel Of 1cor15:1-4)  saves a person  or KEEPS them saved "

Great!  Then just do what Paul REQUIRES in 1Cor.15:1-2 =====> HOLD FAST TO THE WORD PAUL PREACHES (1Cor.15:1-2).

And Paul preaches the word of FAITHFUL TORAH-OBEDIENCE (citing Dt.30:14 at Rom.10:8).

 

"Obedience is great"

Yes!  YOU have even confessed (elsewhere on these forums) that it is good to obey Torah!  Agreed!

 

"Repentance is great"

Yes!  And repentance leads to Torah-obedience.

 

"They just are NOT the instruments that God uses for Salvation.....Faith that  Jesus died for YOUR sins and rose from the dead and RESTING in the fact that Salvation is ALL OF HIM and NONE OF YOU  is what saves, Despite well-intentioned, but erroneous add-ons."

Of course.

But if you turn away from God, you won't be saved.

So obey!

 

"Rest in the Gospel Of Grace as God ordered in Hebrews 7 "

GRACE is given to the HUMBLE (Jas.4:6;Pr.3:34) who obey TORAH (Nu.12:3;Zep.2:3;Ps.25:9;Ex.33:13).

 

"or be charged with “ UNBELIEF” akin to the Jews that died in the Wilderness because they lacked the Belief and Trust to enter The Promised Land"

Then UPHOLD Torah, just as those Israelites were likewise expected to uphold Torah!

 

" We are no better or different from the ancient Jews"

True!  Torah applies to ALL of us in the New Covenant (Jer.31:33;Heb.8:10;10:16).  So obey!

 

"God wants to see if you will Trust Him  or Satan.."

Right!  And we who trust God will OBEY Torah....unlike satan who OPPOSES Torah.

 

"God Has Promised to save us if we simply Believe His Gospel- Plus NOTHING. "

Ok....but remember that the Gospel includes FAITHFUL TORAH-OBEDIENCE (citing Dt.30:14 at Rom.10:8).

 

"Keep one foot firmly planted in something that YOU do for a little “ insurance” in case God does not really mean what He says”."

Rather, we obey BECAUSE we LOVE God (Jn.14:15+Mt.5:19;1Jn.5:3;Dt.6:5,25).

 

" the Father Of Lies who exists solely to sew doubt in the minds of us humans. "

Then let's obey the TRUTH!  Torah is truth (Ps.119:142).

 

blessings...

 

[BibleGuy]

8 hours ago, Michael37 said:

I'm with Blood Bought...see Scripture below...says it all!

Tit 1:13
(13)  This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;
 

Good!  Let's REBUKE as Paul requires...in obedience to ALL TORAH (2Ti.3:16).

Let's be sound in the FAITH.  FAITH is of TORAH (Mt.23:23;Dt.32:20;Ps.119:30,86,138).

blessings...

 

[BibleGuy]

8 hours ago, Resurrection Priest said:

Sorry BloodBought 1953.  I didn't feel that good reading your reply.  You did seem to be "attacking" BibleGuy for his beliefs, rather than reasoning from Scripture.  I don't think we should publicly call the "other" guy "blind", even if you vigorously disagree with his interpretations of Scripture.

I don't agree with a lot of what BibleGuy posts either.  But I haven't called him blind, or stubborn, or "legalist", or supporting Antichrist, or "against Christ", etc. etc. etc. etc.   Our feet must be shod with the Gospel of Peace, which means we must try to treat each other with respect, even when we hold opposite views.

 

8 hours ago, Resurrection Priest said:

BOTH heart circumcision AND flesh circumcision

[This is the LORD speaking] "For all the nations are uncircumcised (of flesh), and all the house of Israel are uncircumcised of heart." (Jer 9:26 NAS)  The LORD says He will destroy all of them.

Ezekiel 44:9 "This is what the sovereign LORD says: No foreigner, who is and uncircumcised in heart and flesh among all the foreigners who are among the people of Israel, will enter into my sanctuary." (NET)

 

Question:  How would the LORD prevent someone "uncircumcised in heart" from entering His sanctuary?  Is He going to strike them dead just as they try to enter, much like the Jews would strike dead any physically uncircumcised man who attempted to enter the Temple court at Jerusalem?   Did anyone report seeing such happen at Jerusalem? 

Answer:  No.  (Except maybe for King Uzziah, but he was inside the Temple trying to burn incense.)

This tells us that the Temple described in Ezekiel 44 may not be a literal Temple.  The Temple that Ezekiel was shown may be symbolic.   Or it may represent an interface between earth and the "true Tabernacle" which is "Heaven itself".  

It is easy to quote just isolated verses from Ezekiel to say that this Temple is literal.  For instance Ezekiel 37:27-28.  "And my tabernacle shall be among them; and I will be to them a God, and they shall be my people. 28 And the nations shall know that I am the Lord that sanctifies them, when my sanctuary is in the midst of them for ever." (Eze 37:27 LXA)  OK.  But we know from Revelation that God and the Lamb ARE the forever Temple of the New Jerusalem. 

 "I did not see a temple in the city, because the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple." Revelation 21:22

 

The "circumcision of the heart" is only performed by Christ our High Priest.  It is only performed with our consent.  And it is not limited to males. 

 

I believe the "circumcision" of Abraham and Israelite males was also SYMBOLIC - of the future "circumcision". 

It symbolized the LORD's promise to loose us from this "flesh" we live inside of.  When we receive our new "spiritual body" - the old "flesh" will be gone.  Only those with this circumcision will be able to enter heaven itself.  THAT is HOW  He can keep out people who are "uncircumcised in flesh".  He doesn't make them immortal.

Joshua (a TYPE of Jesus) lead Israel across the Jordan - that rolled back as a scroll.  Jesus will lead us through the sky - that rolls back as a scroll.

Then Joshua "circumcised the people."  Jesus will circumcise His redeemed Israel.  The old "flesh" will be gone.

Then Israel ate the Passover, in the land.  And Jesus will eat the Passover "new" with us - in the Kingdom. 

 

"This tells us that the Temple described in Ezekiel 44 may not be a literal Temple.  The Temple that Ezekiel was shown may be symbolic. "

Let's not jump to SYMBOLISM when we don't understand all details.

We MUST favor LITERAL interpretations (absent good reasons to not do so), lest we fall down the slippery slope of symbolizing EVERYTHING EVERYWHERE.....

 

blessings...

 

 

[BibleGuy]

9 hours ago, Blood Bought 1953 said:

 

I hope Newbies notice how this guy is 90% dependent on Old Testament verses to substantiate his Legalistic views. The irony is incredulous ......Paul write the Book of Galations to put an END to such blindness...  “ They see yet they don’t see”  “ Christ is the END of the Law for ALL that believe.” A five year old could see it— unless they were blinded by Satan.Shakespeare nailed this one— “ Satan can quote Scripture for his purpose ........what a godly outside a lie can have”

This is NOT to be misconstrued as an attack on “ Bible guy”........ I am just throwing this stuff out there for people to see......I disagree with that guy’s Doctrine, nothing more, nothing less.....

 

 

 

 

Impressive logic there!

Disregard another dozen pro-Torah arguments....and then talk about something else, like Shakespeare....

Sigh.....

 

Anyway, I OPPOSE legalism....and you know it.  LEGALISM is salvation by works without faith.  I OPPOSE LEGALISM.

And, Galatians is written by Paul who requires all Torah (2Ti.3:16). 

And, NOTHING in Galatians opposes TORAH+FAITH.

Gal.5:4-5 opposes Torah WITHOUT faith.

And, Gal.3:11 requires FAITH which is of TORAH (Ps.119:30,86,138;Mt.23:23;Dt.32:20).

And Paul requires justification by TORAH (Rom.2:13) + FAITH (Rom.5:1).

And, Christ is the GOAL/PURPOSE/AIM of Torah (not TERMINATION, see " τέλος ", Rom.10:4).  " τέλος " routinely does NOT mean termination, also, in its usage throughout the Bible.  So, you haven't even proven your "termination" interpretation of " τέλος ".

AND, Paul goes ON to cite Dt. 30:14 as the very SUBSTANCE of the faith Paul preaches, thus disconfirming the "termination" interpretation of " τέλος " in Rom.10:4.  So again, your position is disconfirmed.

 

" A five year old could see it"

And Mt.5:19 too!

 

"unless they were blinded by Satan."

Satan inspires ANTI-Torah theology (2Th.2:3-4).  Jesus requires PRO-Torah theology (Mt.5:19).

Let's make sure we're working for the right team!

 

"This is NOT to be misconstrued as an attack on “ Bible guy”........ "

No worries!  I enjoy spirited conversation!

 

"I disagree with that guy’s Doctrine, nothing more, nothing less....."

When you're ready to actually engage the dozens and dozens of Pro-Torah arguments I've set forth, then let me know!

Until then, you can continue to "use" me as springboard to share your views which do not actually address my position....

At least you've been honest about your motivations here...

 

blessings...