When were the apostles born again? Regeneration

[Alive]

2 minutes ago, other one said:

it has been my belief that they were born again on Pentecost when the holy Spirit came upon them.   Same as happened to me a couple of thousand years later.

This has been my thinking, as well.

[Justin Adams]

17 minutes ago, Neighbor said:

Does born again  only mean the Holy Spirit indwells? If so what of the Old Testament saints?

Jeremiah indicts the false prophets by asking have you been in the diving council?

The prophets were all introduced into Gods real presence, else they were not really prophets. The apostles, save a few, were all in Yeshua's presence... Even Mary had a divine experience, and so did the father of John the baptist.

So did Smith Wigglesworth as described in his daughter's book about him. To have THE or A divine encounter seems to put the 'royal seal' on a person that speaks for God.

Edited January 29, 2020 by Justin Adams

[JohnD]

1 hour ago, Neighbor said:

To know and declare who Jesus is is not the same as being born again is it? Demons knew who Jesus was and is. They are not born again.

What of old testament saints, they did not know Jesus as the man of sorrows, but they knew of Him as their Messiah, was their knowledge a reveal by God the Holy Spirit,? If so and yet they were not indwelled by the Spirit, were they "born again"?

Did not Jesus when he left commit the Holy Spirit to be with us so that we might withstand Satan and his minions until Jesus' return for us?

Is the born again experience the sole indicator of salvation? Has it always been?

Does born again  only mean the Holy Spirit indwells? If so what of the Old Testament saints?

Just a few questions for fun.

Demons  cannot be redeemed.

1. They are fallen in their eternal state.  Their inability to die makes it impossible to redeem.

Man is created with the ability to die physically so God's edict "the soul that sins shall die" is

fulfilled while at the same time humans can be redeemed because we can die.

2. Knowledge of who Jesus is cannot save the human souls who died in unbelief either.

The condition set for activation of human redemption is that we believe in the lord Jesus Christ before

death.

3. Believing in the genuine Jesus Christ before death activating our prepaid salvation (by Jesus on the cross nearly 2k years ago)

grants us the forgiveness of all sin, eternal life, therefore redemption from eternal damnation which IS

being born again (born from above).

It's just that simple.

Note the language in the Apostle's concern:

2 Corinthians 11:3 (AV)
3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

Jesus said...

Mark 10:15 (AV)
15 Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein.

A little child doesn't need a plethora of convincing or details. Being born again itself (i.e. being born) is something

the child has no control over.

We tend to make mountains out of mole hills  and this is what the Law was given to convince people by it's intrinsic

details and impossible outcome for humanity to turn us to God for mercy not justice and for him to handle the details 

rather than us (who would only botch it anyway). 

Trust God!

This is what made David a man after God's own heart.

Trust God.

Only trust him.

Edited January 29, 2020 by JohnD

[johnthebaptist]

16 hours ago, dhchristian said:

 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration ^G3824 when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. (Matthew 19:28)

 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. (Titus 3:5-7) 

It seems to me that the apostles could not have been born again until after the death of Jesus on the cross, and Matthew 19:28 seems to present this as so. We Know there was 50 days from the death of Christ to the Pentecost when the Holy Ghost came down on the Apostles. So When were they born again? Obviously all of them save Judas Iscariot were Born again, But when in the bible is this discussed? Any Thoughts?

 

 

I wasn't even acquainted with the expression "born again" till middle age. The Lord came into my life when I was around twenty, and I've tried to walk with him ever since. So I would say I was born again when I was twenty, even though I didn't realize it. I suspect the Apostles had similar experiences.

[dhchristian]

1 hour ago, Alive said:

This has been my thinking, as well.

So What do you think about the events in john 20 that Jostler mentioned? I think He hit the nail on the head, that all of them the 11 were born again on the day of Jesus' resurrection. 

[Alive]

10 minutes ago, dhchristian said:

So What do you think about the events in john 20 that Jostler mentioned? I think He hit the nail on the head, that all of them the 11 were born again on the day of Jesus' resurrection. 

I read what @Jostlertyped. It is interesting. There appears to be an implication that He had already ascended, but I am not certain.

I don't know if the apostles were changed at that time.

[Dennis1209]

16 hours ago, dhchristian said:

 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration ^G3824 when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. (Matthew 19:28)

 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. (Titus 3:5-7) 

It seems to me that the apostles could not have been born again until after the death of Jesus on the cross, and Matthew 19:28 seems to present this as so. We Know there was 50 days from the death of Christ to the Pentecost when the Holy Ghost came down on the Apostles. So When were they born again? Obviously all of them save Judas Iscariot were Born again, But when in the bible is this discussed? Any Thoughts?

 

 

Interesting question! Here's my thoughts.

Until the resurrection of Christ, everyone was still under 'the law'. John the Baptist was under the law and closed out the Old Testament, that's why Jesus commented on him.

Romans 4:9 (KJV) Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.  [emphasis mine]

We need to divide the two covenants and dispensations. In the Old Testament, the Holy Spirit only made sporadic appearances until Pentecost. Ten days after Christ's ascension to be at the right-hand side of the Father, at Pentecost the church age began. People were saved the same way in Old Testament times as in New Testament times; belief, faith and trust in God, and looking forward to the Cross. The Hebrews / Jews worshiped God the Father at the time before Jesus. The Lord gave a number of glimpses of the coming of His Son, such as in Numbers 21: 8-9, which leads directly to the most famous Bible verses of John 3: 14-18.

When were the Apostles born again or saved? I think pertaining to this time period, there's a difference between being 'saved' and born again, and the Apostles were saved at different times when they truly believed and had saving faith. Peter for instance denied the Lord three times before His resurrection and cursed. Then you have doubting Thomas, when was he saved?

John 20:27 (KJV) Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. 28.  And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

My thoughts and conclusion are: They we born again [rebirth] having faith and believing in Christ on the day of Pentecost when the Holy Spirit came to indwell in each believer permanently. Prior to Pentecost, just as with Abraham, faith, trust and obedience was reckoned unto righteousness. 

My thoughts and understanding anyway?

[dhchristian]

Just now, Dennis1209 said:

Until the resurrection of Christ, everyone was still under 'the law'. John the Baptist was under the law and closed out the Old Testament, that's why Jesus commented on him.

Romans 4:9 (KJV) Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.  [emphasis mine]

We need to divide the two covenants and dispensations. In the Old Testament, the Holy Spirit only made sporadic appearances until Pentecost. Ten days after Christ's ascension to be at the right-hand side of the Father, at Pentecost the church age began. People were saved the same way in Old Testament times as in New Testament times; belief, faith and trust in God, and looking forward to the Cross. The Hebrews / Jews worshiped God the Father at the time before Jesus. The Lord gave a number of glimpses of the coming of His Son, such as in Numbers 21: 8-9, which leads directly to the most famous Bible verses of John 3: 14-18.

When were the Apostles born again or saved? I think pertaining to this time period, there's a difference between being 'saved' and born again, and the Apostles were saved at different times when they truly believed and had saving faith. Peter for instance denied the Lord three times before His resurrection and cursed. Then you have doubting Thomas, when was he saved?

John 20:27 (KJV) Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. 28.  And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

My thoughts and conclusion are: They we born again [rebirth] having faith and believing in Christ on the day of Pentecost when the Holy Spirit came to indwell in each believer permanently. Prior to Pentecost, just as with Abraham, faith, trust and obedience was reckoned unto righteousness. 

My thoughts and understanding anyway?

Here is why I am asking this as well. Obviously the Holy Spirit was given to the apostles in John 20 as well, so the events of Pentecost were a second move of the Holy Ghost as taught by many charismatics. We Know the new covenant could not be in effect until the death of the testator as Hebrews describes so no one was born again until after his death and resurrection. Thus Judas Iscariot was never born again having killed himself soon after the betrayal of Jesus.

This then leads to the question on the validity of this baptism by the Holy Ghost that the charismatics teach and many fundamentalists deny? Being Born again is the first step, Being Born of the Spirit is the second. Now I am not one who preaches that you must speak in tongues or anything like that But there is a second step in our salvation process. Fundamentalists I think will call it surrendering all, but what this move of the Holy Ghost is the point where we rest in his finished work. Do you see where I am heading here?

Each division has their own way of describing this second move of the Holy Ghost in our lives, but because of these differences we are in disagreement over them. The Charismatics say you have to speak in tongues for example, but that is just their way of reaching this point. for the fundamentalist this is a total surrender to the leading of the Holy Ghost, which brings a vibrancy of Understanding and knowledge of the Word of God. So in other words, as Paul writes in 2 Cor. 12 the various gifts are given to each according to the judgment of the Holy Spirit. So Tongues is one of those signs as it is one of those gifts, but not the only one, to another is given discernment, to another knowledge and understanding, to another prophecy etc.

A person can be born again, but have not reached the point of total surrender and rest. We need to with meekness express this to them yet not judge them as heretical or as unsaved, instead encourage them to reach that point of surrender. The same goes for us judging charismatics, we need to recognize and understand that this is their means of surrender, we are all one body in Christ Jesus....

Do you see this or not? I am just thinking aloud here, so bear with me.  

[Dennis1209]

1 hour ago, JohnD said:

Demons  cannot be redeemed.

I totally believe this also, I'm not disputing it! 

Assuming different classes of evil angelic beings, demons being one of the lowest classes, not talking about Satan and his fallen angels...

But I got to thinking reading your post. If someone asked me where in the Bible it says 'demons cannot be redeemed', I can't recall a specific verse or text to point them to. I believe I came to that conclusion from the overall context of the Bible. 

Set me straight; where is it said in the Bible demons can't be redeemed? Or ask for forgiveness?

Based on no mention of evil spirits, unclean spirits and demonic possession prior to Noah's flood. Then an explosion of demonic activity directly after Noah's flood; reminds me of Genesis 6: 1-5, the Nephilim [part human, part fallen angel]. Demons seek bodies to inhabit, as if they once had bodies to continue to lust after their own hearts and flesh.

It's clear in Revelation, those whom receive the mark of the Beast are damned, and have no chance of repentance or Salvation. Could it be those that received that mark become less than fully human?

[Neighbor]

31 minutes ago, Dennis1209 said:

Set me straight; where is it said in the Bible demons can't be redeemed? Or ask for forgiveness?

 

Hi,

I think if it were possible these demons, at least some of them, would have pleaded their case right then and there directly with our Lord Jesus. Instead they ask of Him have You  come before the time, and also to be cast into  the herd of pigs instea eof simply being cast out:

Excerpt via Bible hub:

"Jesus Heals Two Men with Demons

Matthew 8 ..."And when he came to the other side, to the country of the Gadarenes, two demon-possessed men met him, coming out of the tombs, so fierce that no one could pass that way. And behold, they cried out, “What have you to do with us, O Son of God? Have you come here to torment us before the time?” Now a herd of many pigs was feeding at some distance from them. And the demons begged him, saying, “If you cast us out, send us away into the herd of pigs.” And he said to them, “Go.” So they came out and went into the pigs, and behold, the whole herd rushed down the steep bank into the sea and drowned in the waters. The herdsmen fled, and going into the city they told everything, especially what had happened to the demon-possessed men. And behold, all the city came out to meet Jesus, and when they saw him, they begged him to leave their region."

---------------

(Grammar note ? Pleaded or pled ???) Oh well forgive me please. I have gone blank. My poor eighth Grade English teacher's efforts to educate me not withstanding, even though he used to drive his lessons home with the edge of an engineer's three sided rule smacked to the back of my hand.