dhchristian Posted January 28, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 136 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 2,488 Content Per Day: 1.40 Reputation: 1,325 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/29/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted January 28, 2020 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration G3824 when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. (Matthew 19:28) Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. (Titus 3:5-7) It seems to me that the apostles could not have been born again until after the death of Jesus on the cross, and Matthew 19:28 seems to present this as so. We Know there was 50 days from the death of Christ to the Pentecost when the Holy Ghost came down on the Apostles. So When were they born again? Obviously all of them save Judas Iscariot were Born again, But when in the bible is this discussed? Any Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john1 Posted January 29, 2020 Group: Senior Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 41 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 686 Content Per Day: 0.29 Reputation: 221 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/16/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted January 29, 2020 2 hours ago, dhchristian said: So When were they born again? I don't know of anywhere, where it says they were born again. 1 John chapter 4 verse 7 Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jostler Posted January 29, 2020 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 25 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,679 Content Per Day: 1.39 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 16 Joined: 01/19/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted January 29, 2020 Quote Jhn 20:19-23 ¶ Then, the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled,[fn] for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood in the midst, and said to them, “Peace be with you.” When He had said this, He showed them His hands and His side. Then the disciples were glad when they saw the Lord. ¶ So Jesus said to them again, “Peace to you! As the Father has sent Me, I also send you.” And when He had said this, He breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. “If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.” The context reveals that "the same day" is referring to resurrection day. The first "born again" experience among men was on the day He rose again. Evidently AFTER He had ascended sometime earlier in the day to pour out His blood on the heavenly mercy seat. There is a tremendous amount of follow on revelation that can flow from this :). A full 49 days before Pentecost..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dhchristian Posted January 29, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 136 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 2,488 Content Per Day: 1.40 Reputation: 1,325 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/29/2019 Status: Offline Author Share Posted January 29, 2020 24 minutes ago, Jostler said: The context reveals that "the same day" is referring to resurrection day. The first "born again" experience among men was on the day He rose again. Evidently AFTER He had ascended sometime earlier in the day to pour out His blood on the heavenly mercy seat. There is a tremendous amount of follow on revelation that can flow from this :). A full 49 days before Pentecost..... Thanks, That is what I was looking for. If You read further in John 20, we see the episode with Thomas as well where he says "my Lord and My God" Apparently he was absent this first time (Verse 24) so he was a bit later, but still the same day. I Just ran across the verse in Matthew today and Matthew never speaks of this though this episode is alluded to with in Matthew 28 John confirms this. This also puts special emphasis on the confession of Thomas found in John 20:28 as being part of the born again belief. And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed. (John 20:28-29) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeauJangles Posted January 29, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 43 Topic Count: 229 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 10,900 Content Per Day: 2.92 Reputation: 12,145 Days Won: 68 Joined: 02/13/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/14/1954 Share Posted January 29, 2020 4 hours ago, dhchristian said: It seems to me that the apostles could not have been born again until after the death of Jesus on the cross, and Matthew 19:28 seems to present this as so. We Know there was 50 days from the death of Christ to the Pentecost when the Holy Ghost came down on the Apostles. So When were they born again? Obviously all of them save Judas Iscariot were Born again, But when in the bible is this discussed? Any Thoughts? Good question. I've not given a lot of thought to this. It was always the assumption on my part, that when the disciples came to a full understanding of Jesus being the anointed one, Messiah, that it would have been on the same status of being born again? Perhaps I'm incorrect about that. Peter did say this to the Lord. Luke 9:20 20He said unto them, But whom do ye that I am? Peter answering said, The Christ of God. Mark 8:29 29And he saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? And Peter answereth and saith unto him, Thou art the Christ. Matthew 16:13-20 13When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am? 14And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets. 15He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? 16And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. 17And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. 18And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. 19And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. 20Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ. So, Peter was at least understood who Jesus was. Surely the rest of them also knew this. If not, Peter's announcement must have been a revelation to the other disciples. Would they have doubted him? I think probably not. Just my thoughts since you inquired. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willa Posted January 29, 2020 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 68 Topic Count: 186 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 14,247 Content Per Day: 3.33 Reputation: 16,658 Days Won: 30 Joined: 08/14/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted January 29, 2020 Act 1:8 But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth." I believe that the Holy Spirit was poured out at Pentecost. It was then that people were given the power to speak the word with boldness. Prior to that Peter was denying Christ. Now 3000 souls were saved through the power of the Holy Spirit. This is when the church was born as well. During the time of King Saul the Holy Spirit would come upon him one minute and he would prophecy, and the next minute satan would enter him and he would try to kill David. He didn't dwell in him. Likewise, after Peter had said "You are the Christ", he had forbid Christ from going to the Father. Jesus had said, "get behind me satan". So the Spirit still came and left like Saul. After Penecost the Holy Spirit would live in people. He also came upon them to empower them to do God's will. I don't believe that satan was able to fill them after they had received the gift of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted January 29, 2020 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 0 Topic Count: 908 Topics Per Day: 0.19 Content Count: 9,652 Content Per Day: 2.02 Reputation: 5,835 Days Won: 9 Joined: 04/07/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted January 29, 2020 (edited) Matthew 16:16–17 (AV) 16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. 17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. John 16:27 (AV) 27 For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God. John 3:16–18 (AV) 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. John 6:69 (AV) 69 And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God. Being born again (John 3:3-7), baptized by the Holy Spirit (Matthew 3:11), the works of God (John 6:69), or crossing over from death to life (John 5:24)... IS belief in the genuine Jesus Christ. Edited January 29, 2020 by JohnD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neighbor Posted January 29, 2020 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 18 Topic Count: 957 Topics Per Day: 0.35 Content Count: 13,631 Content Per Day: 5.03 Reputation: 9,079 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/04/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/03/1885 Share Posted January 29, 2020 To know and declare who Jesus is is not the same as being born again is it? Demons knew who Jesus was and is. They are not born again. What of old testament saints, they did not know Jesus as the man of sorrows, but they knew of Him as their Messiah, was their knowledge a reveal by God the Holy Spirit,? If so and yet they were not indwelled by the Spirit, were they "born again"? Did not Jesus when he left commit the Holy Spirit to be with us so that we might withstand Satan and his minions until Jesus' return for us? Is the born again experience the sole indicator of salvation? Has it always been? Does born again only mean the Holy Spirit indwells? If so what of the Old Testament saints? Just a few questions for fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted January 29, 2020 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 598 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,178 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,906 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted January 29, 2020 it has been my belief that they were born again on Pentecost when the holy Spirit came upon them. Same as happened to me a couple of thousand years later. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jostler Posted January 29, 2020 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 25 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,679 Content Per Day: 1.39 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 16 Joined: 01/19/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted January 29, 2020 1 minute ago, other one said: it has been my belief that they are born again on Pentecost when the holy Spirit came upon them. Same as happened to me. might see if this adds any value to your understanding. I don't think anyone but dchristian read it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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