Rapture before the antichrist in Matthew 24

[Revelation Man]

2 hours ago, dhchristian said:

I Have a God who says he can create in one day what you think took billions of years, Just like he can create a person without them ever being born from the dust of the earth as a fully grown adult, with age. 

You have a God who lives in the past, present and future all AT ONCE, yet you think he accelerated the Laws of Nature to HURRY UP His Creation, when He lives in the FUTURE already !! That makes absolutely no sense brother. The Laws of Nature say out earth is 13.7 billion years old. Yet because you and others can't understand the Creation stories timeline it had to be created in 6, days, even though none of the Laws of Nature fit that fact. In so doing you push away many people who can't believe what you are saying, therein they may never come to Christ all because you are wrong on how old the Universe is, and in both cases that just a shame. Its far more important to know the facts than to be "right" on everything. Because the Universe is 13.7 billion years old, and the earth is 4.5 billion years old. 

So you keep on living in that world of your brother, but you will see once you get to heaven you didn't use logic, and that whys you were in error.

[dhchristian]

48 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

You have a God who lives in the past, present and future all AT ONCE, yet you think he accelerated the Laws of Nature to HURRY UP His Creation, when He lives in the FUTURE already !! That makes absolutely no sense brother. The Laws of Nature say out earth is 13.7 billion years old. Yet because you and others can't understand the Creation stories timeline it had to be created in 6, days, even though none of the Laws of Nature fit that fact. In so doing you push away many people who can't believe what you are saying, therein they may never come to Christ all because you are wrong on how old the Universe is, and in both cases that just a shame. Its far more important to know the facts than to be "right" on everything. Because the Universe is 13.7 billion years old, and the earth is 4.5 billion years old. 

So you keep on living in that world of your brother, but you will see once you get to heaven you didn't use logic, and that whys you were in error.

I Have a God who does not lie. He said in his word that he created the earth and the world in six days. I Trust His eyewitness testimony, He is the faithful and True witness (Rev. 3:14), over man's cognition, who were never there to witness these events in the first place.

Your argument for not pushing this narrative holds no water. Should we condone abortion because it offends people who think otherwise? should we condone Homosexuality because it is the politically correct thing to do today, or should we speak the truth of the Word of God freely and accurately and Truthfully, Even if it offends?  

All you are doing with your way of thinking is creating Lukewarm believers (Partial unbelief), as someone who was once there I ain't going back, I am sold out to the LORD and I believe what he says 100% no matter how much science and the wisdom of man decides that He is wrong.

Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise. (1 Cor. 3:18) 

If You cannot appreciate my stand on this issue, then so be it. 

Edited February 10, 2020 by dhchristian

[Revelation Man]

2 hours ago, dhchristian said:

I Have a God who does not lie. He said in his word that he created the earth and the world in six days.

No He didn't, he said SIX YOWMS a Hebrew word, you read an English interpretation that called it a day. I had to relay this same message to a guy named Mike about a year or so ago in a private message because he couldn't grasp that the bible was written in Hebrew, not English.

Hi Mike, no worries, I just know you can't be in a discussion when someone's trying to mandate the meaning of words. I like the KJV but I am not bound to any version per se. Allow me to first show what I mean as per how the word is used in various ways, then we can go from there.

#3117 יוֹם yowm {yome}

from an unused root meaning TO BE HOT; TWOT - 852; n m
—Hebrew Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)

1) day, time, year
1a) day (as opposed to night)
1b) day (24 hour period)
1b1) as defined by evening and morning in Genesis 1
1b2) AS A DIVISION OF TIME
1b2a) a working day, a day's journey
1c) days, lifetime (pl.)
1d) TIME, PERIOD (general)
1e) year
1f) temporal references
1f1) today
1f2) yesterday
1f3) tomorrow
—Brown-Driver-Briggs (Old Testament Hebrew-English Lexicon)

From an unused root meaning TO BE HOT; a day (as the WARM HOURS), whether literally (from sunrise to sunset, or from one sunset to the next), or figuratively (a SPACE OF TIME defined by an associated term), (often used adverbially):—age, + ALWAYS, + CHRONICLES, CONTINUALLY (-ance), daily, ([birth-], each, to) day, (now a, two) days (agone), + elder, X end, + evening, + (for) ever (-lasting, -more), X FULL, life, as (so) long as (. . . live), (even) now, + old, + outlived, + perpetually, presently, + remaineth, X REQUIRED, season, X since, space, then, (process of) time, + as at other times, + in trouble, weather, (as) when, (a, the, within a) while (that), X whole (+ age), (full) year (-ly), + younger.
—Strong's (Hebrew & Chaldee Dictionary of the Old Testament)

#3117.
יוֹם
yom (398a); a prim. root; day:—
NASB - afternoon*(1), age(8), age*(1), all(1), always*(14), amount*(2), battle(1), birthday*(1), Chronicles*(38), completely*(1), continually*(14), course*(1), daily(22), daily the days(1), day(1115), day of the days(1), day that the period(1), day's(6), day's every day(1), daylight*(1), days(635), days on the day(1), days to day(1), days you shall daily(1), days ago(1), days'(11), each(1), each day(4), entire(2), eternity(1), evening*(1), ever in your life*(1), every day(2), fate(1), first(5), forever*(11), forevermore*(1), full(5), full year(1), future*(1), holiday*(3), later*(2), length(1), life(12), life*(1), lifetime(2), lifetime*(1), live(1), long(2), long as i live(1), long*(11), midday*(1), now(5), older*(1), once(2), period(3), perpetually*(2), present(1), recently(1), reigns(1), ripe*(1), short-lived*(1), so long*(1), some time(1), survived*(2), time(45), time*(1), times*(2), today(172), today*(1), usual(1), very old*(1), when(10), when the days(1), whenever(1), while(3), whole(2), year(10), yearly(5), years(13), yesterday*(1).
—NAS Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible with Hebrew-Aramaic and Greek Dictionaries

AV - day 2008, time 64, chronicles + H1697 37, daily 32, ever 17,
year 14, continually 10, when 10, as 10, while 8, full 8
always 4, whole 4, alway 4, misc 44; 2274

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Some examples where this word us used in a different way BELOW: Notice it's always used as a PERIOD OF TIME of some sort.

2 Kings 17:37 And the statutes, and the ordinances, and the law, and the commandment, which he wrote for you, ye shall observe to do for evermore(YOWM); and ye shall not fear other gods.

Genesis 4:3 And in process of time(YOWM) it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the Lord.

Micah 5:2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting(YOWM).

Ezekiel 4:6 And when thou hast accomplished them, lie again on thy right side, and thou shalt bear the iniquity of the house of Judah forty days: I have appointed thee each day for a year(YOWM).

Exodus 13:10 Thou shalt therefore keep this ordinance in his season from year to year(YOWM).

Genesis 8:22 While the earth remaineth(YOWM), seedtime and harvest, and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night shall not cease.

Genesis 40:4 And the captain of the guard charged Joseph with them, and he served them: and they continued a season(YOWM) in ward.

Joshua 24:7 And when they cried unto the Lord, he put darkness between you and the Egyptians, and brought the sea upon them, and covered them; and your eyes have seen what I have done in Egypt: and ye dwelt in the wilderness a long season(YOWM).

1 Kings 9:3 And the Lord said unto him, I have heard thy prayer and thy supplication, that thou hast made before me: I have hallowed this house, which thou hast built, to put my name there for ever; and mine eyes and mine heart shall be there perpetually(YOWM).

Genesis 29:14 And Laban said to him, Surely thou art my bone and my flesh. And he abode with him the space(YOWM) of a month.

Leviticus 26:34 Then shall the land enjoy her sabbaths, as long(YOWM) as it lieth desolate, and ye be in your enemies' land; even then shall the land rest, and enjoy her sabbaths.

Deuteronomy 28:29 And thou shalt grope at noonday, as the blind gropeth in darkness, and thou shalt not prosper in thy ways: and thou shalt be only oppressed and spoiled evermore(YOWM), and no man shall save thee.

Deuteronomy 5:29 O that there were such an heart in them, that they would fear me, and keep all my commandments always(YOWM), that it might be well with them, and with their children for ever!

Genesis 6:5 And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually(YOWM).

Genesis 41:1 And it came to pass at the end of two full(YOWM) years, that Pharaoh dreamed: and, behold, he stood by the river.

I could go on and on, but I think this shows enough variation and instances which shows us that the Hebrew word YOWM is used for a PERIOD OF TIME of many sorts. Of course it is going to be used for a day more than any other word because God is going to use "SPECIFIC MENTIONS OF DAYS" more than any other period of time. Whenever a Prophets says that there will be so and so many days of this or that he used the word YOWM. But when it was meant as EVERMORE he also used the word YOWWM, and when it meant a YEAR they also used the word YOWM, etc. etc.

So God uses the word YOWM and it's up to us to EVENTUALLY figure out what "PERIOD OF TIME" He(God) meant by that !! The Hebrew language had only 4000 or so words and no vowels at the time, it was a primitive language of course. We shouldn't allow the professors of that time (Pharisees, Scribes) to sway us into saying this has to mean ONE DAY, it was a period of time and it's up to us to figure it out in the end. All that men knew back then comparatively speaking was that we had days/years/months. So they had to see it as something, what was it going to be ? Day, Year, Month, Evermore, Perpetually, Full, Always, X Required, Space of time etc. etc. They sure didn't have a clue about how big the universe is like we do, they had no concept of billions of years like we do.

So God created the Universe in a period of 7 YOWMS...........which as shown above means periods of times in various ways. We have to figure it out, we can't allow the dog to lead us here, we have to lead the dog. We can't allow the word DAY (YOWM) to force us to look at things in a way in which it drives people away from the Gospel. We want to understand the facts, therefore we can reach people in truth. I have seen many young people tell me, hey, anyone that thinks the universe is 6000 years old, I don't want to hear about your God man, you live in la la land. But when I speak in terms of knowledge, they listen and say so you believe in Evolution, and I say why ? God created the Universe over a 13.7 billion year period, as He so desired ? It makes them think, OK.....It opens a door to gain them via what I see as facts. But if we say the Universe is 6000 years old we have no hope to reach them brother. And that is my job, that is why I researched it, I hated Science in school, but its my job to reach the masses with truths, so I dug in.

Morning and Evening mean beginning and Ending of a day, or of a period of time.

As per the Day of the Lord, that is the Day God's Wrath starts on, but the Day of the LORD lasts 3.5 years does it not ?

I hope the above helped explain my positions somewhat and opens you up to seeing my POV here. YOWM is always inserted for a PERIOD OF TIME, its up to us to understand what that Period of time means in each instance.

God Bless
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So God said He created the Universe in SIX YOWMS. You are wrong and will see you are wrong when you get to Heaven. In the mean time I have to try to reach those that are pushed away by this kind of thinking.  

[dhchristian]

16 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

So God said He created the Universe in SIX YOWMS. You are wrong and will see you are wrong when you get to Heaven. In the mean time I have to try to reach those that are pushed away by this kind of thinking.  

You Obviously missed this part of the definition, below.

16 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

1b) day (24 hour period)
1b1) as defined by evening and morning in Genesis 1

Let me explain this to you better, when the word Yowm is used in conjunction with mornings and Evenings it can only mean one 24 hour day. This is the qualifier. Look I have been at this a long time, and you can take strongs meaning and make a verse mean exactly the opposite of what was intended by the author. In This case the Author Was God Himself Giving the Word to Moses by Inspiration. There is a reason why He put mornings and evenings in each verse to define what a day meant. It is just simple common sense. 

This is exactly what Paul was referring to in the verse I quoted above Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise. (1 Cor. 3:18) 

God Bless. 

[Dennis1209]

On 2/9/2020 at 7:40 AM, OldCoot said:

And some of the disagreement is happening because we are using different translations, and that can be a problem.

You have that right! One brief example of hundreds of examples, as we're speaking of the end-times. 

Revelation 13:16 (KJV) And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: [emphasis added]

Most translations have "on" their right hand / foreheads. Big substantial difference wouldn't you say; if you're thinking something like a tattoo or RFID microchip? The Lord promised to preserve His word, in which translations? Would it be in the translations that are copyrighted, that have to be at least 15% different from other translations for intellectual property? Did the number one best selling book of all time become income and a cash cow? Just personal thoughts of mine...

[OldCoot]

I really like the KJV, but even it is not without its flaws.  And it deviated somewhat from all that came before it.  It is very good, but like all translations, not perfect.  Even the translators acknowledged that in their introduction and it went thru a few updates over the years.  At least it has been around for 400 years and the flaws are known.   
 

Where I really side with it is  the base Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek source texts.  

Edited February 11, 2020 by OldCoot

[Revelation Man]

1 hour ago, Cletus said:

rev 4:1 does not back up your claim.  you seem to have a lot of creative ideas not found in scripture.  i will stick to what The Holy Spirit has shown me.  please do not quote me anymore with posts that begin like the one above. 

and btw... nothing you said shows a chronological order. 

A Chronological Order is indeed shown. 

Jesus fulfilled the three Spring Feasts with his death.........that is the proper order right ? It comes before the Harvest/Church Age.

Church Age Harvest is next......then the Trump blows {Rapture}.

Next the 70th week begins AFTER the Trump blows which ANNOUNCES the Harvest is over and that the ATONEMENT is nigh.

NEXT IN LINE: Israel Repents just BEFORE the Day of the Lord {see Malachi 4:5-6} 

And Jesus rules/dwells with the Jews in Israel for 1000 years during the 1000 year reign. 

That is in Chronological Order. 

Now we get PRETENSE....Please don't quote me a quote that begins like the one above. I understand you guys can't overcome my points. Lighten up on the drama though man. 

 

 

[Revelation Man]

4 hours ago, dhchristian said:

You Obviously missed this part of the definition, below.

 

No you missed THE POINT...........I know the word can be DAY because most of the time YOWM does mean day, but YOU MISS THE POINT, it doesn't have to mean day, it can mean MANY THINGS besides day !! And here it doesn't mean day because the Universe is 13.7 billion years old, it means a YOWM or period of time, INSERT THE TIME when you understand it..........I did, 9.2 billion years from when the Universe began til the Sun and earth were formed. 

4 hours ago, dhchristian said:

Let me explain this to you better, when the word Yowm is used in conjunction with mornings and Evenings it can only mean one 24 hour day. This is the qualifier. Look I have been at this a long time, and you can take strongs meaning and make a verse mean exactly the opposite of what was intended by the author. In This case the Author Was God Himself Giving the Word to Moses by Inspiration. There is a reason why He put mornings and evenings in each verse to define what a day meant. It is just simple common sense. 

This is exactly what Paul was referring to in the verse I quoted above Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise. (1 Cor. 3:18) 

God Bless. 

I can not believe we actually still have people who think the Universe is 6000 years old.  Mind blown. Just leave it be man....

[dhchristian]

6 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

I can not believe we actually still have people who think the Universe is 6000 years old.  Mind blown. Just leave it be man....

"You are wrong and will see you are wrong when you get to Heaven."

There are many of us who have moved from being Lukewarm living in Partial unbelief such as yourself to full belief in the Testimony of the Word of God by the faithful and True Witness in this Laodicean Age. Take the time to read that first verse of that letter to the Laodiceans as this is where the heart of this lukewarmness begins, the denial of these attributes of Christ Jesus. And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God; (Rev. 3:14)

Do You see it Now Brother? We are all Laodiceans living in the Laodicean church age. This whole scientism thing (the Hubris of the mind) is part of the what we have to overcome, and I encourage you to do so by saying "Lord thou Knowest" with the Prophets of old, instead of saying that is impossible because science says so, for with God all things are possible. He is Omnipotent. Or you can continue in your Lukewarmness.

I Know this is hard for you, But this is the Revelation He has given me, My mission if you will, to this Generation. You Know my message has been consistent since I have been on this site. It is time for you to say "I am a Laodicean" and stop living in this denial that this church age is known for. The Path to overcoming is right there in that letter, and I can attest to the fact that this works because I have walked down that path, and then take a look at the reward for those who overcome. Who is it that sits on the throne with the King?

"Can the teacher be taught?"

God Bless.  

Edited February 11, 2020 by dhchristian

[The Light]

On 2/9/2020 at 6:05 AM, Diaste said:

 

 Pretrib timing is a hoax as no evidence exists for such timing and a major scriptural passage refutes any other moment of the gathering occurring before GT.

Not sure why you are having trouble seeing evidence of a pretrib rapture as it's everywhere.

Matt 24

³¹ And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Mark 13

²⁷ And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

The gathering is from heaven and earth. The church is already in heaven and is gathered from heaven to be with the Lord. The 12 tribes that are scattered across the earth are gathered from the earth at this gathering. Only the believers that flee go through the wrath of God and they do so in a place of protection.

Here is the church in heaven before the seals are opened. The 1st 6 seals are the tribulation.

Rev 5

⁸ And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.

⁹ And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

¹⁰ And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

God raptures the church pre trib. Noah is in the ark 7 days before the flood. The Goodman will not know when He is coming.

God raptures the scattered 12 tribes pre wrath. The very day Lot leaves Sodom destruction comes. That day will not take them unaware as they won't be in darkness. They are instructed to look up their redemption draws nigh.