Hebrew Roots and Diety of Jesus/Yahshua

[JoeMo]

Jesus said He and the Father are One.  I read that as they are "the same".  Jesus is the physical manifestation of Yahweh.  Every time we read of the "angel of the Lord"or the "Word of the Lord" or the visible" LORD" in the OT, it is referring to the pre-incarnate Jesus.

No one has ever seen the Father.  Scripture says that we would die if we looked upon the Father. He is so different from us that seeing Him would completely overwhelm our physical senses and we would die - not just faint.

Just my opinion.

[dhchristian]

18 minutes ago, Resurrection Priest said:

Personally I dislike the word "cult".  It is used far too often to label those who hold a minority view.    It is putting a label on anyone who shares a view regarded by the speaker as heretical. 

I can see why, with views that you hold.

I am going to give you a simple mathematical formula why your views are wrong, Ponder it for a moment.

1x1x1=1 1/1/1/=1 If any of those numbers is less than 1, the math does not equal 1. That is at any time and for all eternity been true. Jesus being subject to the Father does not make him less than the Father, for they are ONE. Yet they are 3 separate persons, Much like you have a body, soul and a spirit. Your spirit may be in subject to your body, but it is not less than your body, But it is essentially A whole of you. We are created in the image of God.  

[Resurrection Priest]

1 hour ago, dhchristian said:

I can see why, with views that you hold.

I am going to give you a simple mathematical formula why your views are wrong, Ponder it for a moment.

1x1x1=1 1/1/1/=1 If any of those numbers is less than 1, the math does not equal 1. That is at any time and for all eternity been true. Jesus being subject to the Father does not make him less than the Father, for they are ONE. Yet they are 3 separate persons, Much like you have a body, soul and a spirit. Your spirit may be in subject to your body, but it is not less than your body, But it is essentially A whole of you. We are created in the image of God.  

In your opinion.  Which is OK.  We all share our views.

1+1 = 2,  body+spirit=soul a "whole of you",  no solid scriptural proof that the Spirit of God is a third divine person (never worshiped, no name, etc. etc.). 

And because the majority hold a view, does not prove that view is correct.  The majority got it wrong, quite often - at least in the Scriptures.

The problem comes when folks with one view, tell folks with another view that they are "lost", or "antichrist", or a "cult",  or "wrong",  etc. etc. etc. 

NOTE:  I am fine with verses like 1 John 4:2.  "This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God."  That one is pretty plain.    

Because I hold one view and you another, does not automatically make one of us "wrong" and the other "right".  We could both be off in some aspects. 

The desire to "get it right" when it comes to doctrines, or interpretations is in all of us - all who are seeking to "know" YHVH.  But we are all trying to see through fogged glass.  How can we see everything clearly?  We are trying to "see" into another dimension, with physical eyes.  It's just not possible to "see" it all, and "know" it all. 

Which is why I never claim that anyone will be saved, or lost, by coming to agree with my view of things.  I will only say that from my study, at this point in time, this is where I believe the "weight of evidence" falls. 

Adam and Eve were "one flesh" - but two persons.  The "image of God" could not be represented by Adam alone.  It takes both mother and father to represent the LORD to their children. 

Jesus prayed that we would be "one" with Him and with His Father (John 17:21-23).  That does not make us part of their Godhead.  To be "one" in that sense, means to be "of one mind" - thinking the same, or indwelt by the same spirit (which is influencing the thoughts). 

 

[dhchristian]

2 hours ago, Resurrection Priest said:

1+1 = 2,  body+spirit=soul a "whole of you",  no solid scriptural proof that the Spirit of God is a third divine person (never worshiped, no name, etc. etc.).

wrong, The Link below should be all the proof you need with verses.

https://www.gotquestions.org/is-the-Holy-Spirit-God.html

2 hours ago, Resurrection Priest said:

And because the majority hold a view, does not prove that view is correct.  The majority got it wrong, quite often - at least in the Scriptures.

The fallacy ad Populum goes both ways, Just because a majority proclaims it does not mean its right Or wrong. What Scripture says is what determines what is right and wrong. See above link for scriptures supporting that the Holy Spirit is God, and one person of the triune God.

 

2 hours ago, Resurrection Priest said:

The problem comes when folks with one view, tell folks with another view that they are "lost", or "antichrist", or a "cult",  or "wrong",  etc. etc. etc. 

Sometimes the Majority is in line with orthodoxy, In Other words they are right according to scripture, when the viewpoint does not meet the requirements and or tests of the spirit we are told to have nothing to do with such a person. (1 John 4:1-6, Gal. 1:8-9) Unsound doctrine such as you have promoted here requires us as Christians to call it out that other brothers and sisters be not deceived by these false prophets and teachers, which teach unsound doctrine.

 

2 hours ago, Resurrection Priest said:

Because I hold one view and you another, does not automatically make one of us "wrong" and the other "right".  We could both be off in some aspects. 

The Word of God SHOULD be your guide. If my view does not line up with the word of God then I am wrong, Will you admit you are in error having now been showed how your view does not line up with the Word of God? 

 

2 hours ago, Resurrection Priest said:

The desire to "get it right" when it comes to doctrines, or interpretations is in all of us - all who are seeking to "know" YHVH.  But we are all trying to see through fogged glass.  How can we see everything clearly?  We are trying to "see" into another dimension, with physical eyes.  It's just not possible to "see" it all, and "know" it all. 

Which is why I never claim that anyone will be saved, or lost, by coming to agree with my view of things.  I will only say that from my study, at this point in time, this is where I believe the "weight of evidence" falls. 

There comes a time when the truth becomes evident and undebateable, and it is at that time that we take a stand for the Truth of the Word of God. I Agree the trinity is a hard to comprehend concept for the human mind, But the Holy Ghost through his testimony in us will guide us into all Truth as the Spirit of Truth, Him being the very seal of God. From what I am seeing here he has never sealed you with the Truth? The Holy Ghost being God with us (Emannuel). 

2 hours ago, Resurrection Priest said:

Adam and Eve were "one flesh" - but two persons.  The "image of God" could not be represented by Adam alone.  It takes both mother and father to represent the LORD to their children. 

Jesus prayed that we would be "one" with Him and with His Father (John 17:21-23).  That does not make us part of their Godhead.  To be "one" in that sense, means to be "of one mind" - thinking the same, or indwelt by the same spirit (which is influencing the thoughts). 

Now you are heading in the direction of the divine feminine which is a Babylonian (heretical) doctrine. Our oneness to the Godhead has nothing to do with our divinity as some suggest like the Mormons who say we become little gods, But our oneness is one of being part of the family of God, By adoptions as sons and daughters. (Romans 8:15-23, Gal. 4:5) This is why I can unequivocably say the doctrine of theosophy is a false doctrine, as is the doctrine of the divine feminine. 

Your assumption is wrong in that you presume the oneness of man and woman= the divine nature, But eve was created from Adam for Adam as a Helpmeet, But Man was created for God. Adam alone is created in God's Image, woman is created in Adams image. And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man. (Genesis 2:23) So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. (genesis 1:27) In other words Only Adam is in the image of God, Woman is the image of Adam, Both are created by God. I Know this is not popular in these days of feminism but this is the truth of the Word of God. There is no divine feminine, and this is a heresy of the Babylonian creation myths that have crept into the church.

Just because someone proclaims themselves to be Jesus (I am using this example because someone just did on this site) does not mean they are right. No Matter how popular the consensus is or how "few there be that see it". Jesus is the Truth personified, You either receive the Truth of the Word of God or you reject the Truth and thereby reject Jesus, and eventually your mind becomes reprobate (romans 1:18-32)

So what You are teaching is heretical to the Word of God, not to my opinion, But His Truth as outlined in the Word of God. The question is will you oppose the truth or will you repent of the false doctrines you hold? I Can't make that choice for you, You have to decide, I can only show you how you are in heresy to the Truth of the Word of God. Ask Yourself, If the holy Ghost is not God, How is it that you can be guilty of Blaspheming the Holy Ghost?  

[Daniel Marsh]

Acts 13:2 New International Version (NIV)
2 While they were worshiping the Lord and fasting, the Holy Spirit said, “Set apart for me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them.”

 

The Holy Spirit applies ego to himself,  the hallmark of personhood. 

 

 

[Daniel Marsh]

 

https://www.blueletterbible.org/Comm/bowman_robert/trinity/trinity.cfm

 

[Resurrection Priest]

On 2/17/2020 at 5:39 PM, dhchristian said:

Your assumption is wrong in that you presume the oneness of man and woman= the divine nature, But eve was created from Adam for Adam as a Helpmeet, But Man was created for God. Adam alone is created in God's Image, woman is created in Adams image. 

Hmmm.  So you don't believe that females also are imagers of God - that they also were made in God's image.  Interesting.  So then it would be fine to abort females, but not males?

I take the LORD to say that Adam was not enough to represent His image fully. 

Guess you read Romans 8:29, to say that only males can be "conformed to the image of His Son" - not females, because Christ is "the firstborn among many brethren - not sisters.   

Romans 8:29 "For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren."

Oh.  But there is

Galatians 3:28 "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus."

Edited February 19, 2020 by Resurrection Priest

[Resurrection Priest]

19 minutes ago, Daniel Marsh said:

Acts 13:2 New International Version (NIV)
2 While they were worshiping the Lord and fasting, the Holy Spirit said, “Set apart for me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them.”

 

The Holy Spirit applies ego to himself,  the hallmark of personhood. 

 

 

The Spirit speaking IS Christ speaking.  Christ IS a person.    A third divine person didn't call Barnabas and Saul.  Christ did.

"The last Adam became a life-giving Spirit" (ICor 15:45).

Consider the messages to the Churches in Revelation.  The text says, "hear what the Spirit says".   But the words are those of Christ. 

Revelation 3:20 "Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with that person, and they with me. 21 To the one who is victorious, I will give the right to sit with me on my throne, just as I was victorious and sat down with my Father on his throne. 22 Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches." (NIV)

During the OT, "the Spirit of Christ in them was pointing when he predicted the sufferings of the Messiah and the glories that would follow." (1Pe 1:11 NIV)

Was "the Spirit of Christ" another divine person, just speaking FOR the pre-incarnate Christ?  I don't believe so.  "The Spirit of Christ" - was Christ's own Spirit - His "voice" that speaks to us in our minds.  Just as today.  We "hear" Christ speaking to our hearts/minds. 

If I speak to someone, "my voice" is not something (or someone) separate from me. 

[dhchristian]

32 minutes ago, Resurrection Priest said:

Hmmm.  So you don't believe that females also are imagers of God - that they also were made in God's image.  Interesting.  So then it would be fine to abort females, but not males?

So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. Gen 1:27

For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man. Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.... For as the woman is of the man, even so is the man also by the woman; but all things of God.(1 Cor 11:8-9,12)

There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. (Gal 3:28)

I Am Speaking of the nature of God, There is neither male nor female in Christ Jesus.... But God in all three persons is a He, and Gen 1:27 verifies this. This has nothing to do with devaluing woman or any such thing.

 

[Resurrection Priest]

22 hours ago, Resurrection Priest said:

The Spirit speaking IS Christ speaking.  Christ IS a person.    A third divine person didn't call Barnabas and Saul.  Christ did.

"The last Adam became a life-giving Spirit" (ICor 15:45).

Consider the messages to the Churches in Revelation.  The text says, "hear what the Spirit says".   But the words are those of Christ. 

Revelation 3:20 "Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with that person, and they with me. 21 To the one who is victorious, I will give the right to sit with me on my throne, just as I was victorious and sat down with my Father on his throne. 22 Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches." (NIV)

During the OT, "the Spirit of Christ in them was pointing when he predicted the sufferings of the Messiah and the glories that would follow." (1Pe 1:11 NIV)

Was "the Spirit of Christ" another divine person, just speaking FOR the pre-incarnate Christ?  I don't believe so.  "The Spirit of Christ" - was Christ's own Spirit - His "voice" that speaks to us in our minds.  Just as today.  We "hear" Christ speaking to our hearts/minds. 

If I speak to someone, "my voice" is not something (or someone) separate from me. 

John 6:63 "It is the spirit that gives life, the flesh has nothing to offer. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life."

Just wanted to continue the point - that the "words" of Christ ARE SPIRIT.  Nothing about a third divine person.  His "words" had power and life.  They healed the sick and raised the dead.  They calmed the storm.  All this because the power and life of God the Father flowed through His Son. 

Jesus said it Himself, "The Father who dwells in Me does the works" (John 14:10).  No third divine being needed.  Just Father and Son. 

Some try to explain by saying that the Holy Spirit is always "in the background", never calling any attention or glory to himself.  Never worshiped.  Never prayed to, or glorified.  Never given any credit.  The Spirit (as a third divine person) is invisible.  Very difficult to prove the existence of a completely invisible divine person.  Especially when every "proof text" used to prove His existence, can just as easily be interpreted differently. 

I believe our "God" is a duality of Father and Son.  The TWO share one throne.  God the Father is the center and seat of authority.  He is the source of life and power.  His divine Son has taken the form of the created sentient being, to act as communicator and imager, to represent BOTH His Father and Himself to Their creation.   I believe that God's Son took the form of an angel [The Angel of the LORD] before He took the form (and flesh nature) of humanity.  He has acted, and will act to execute judgment  (the judgment of both Father and Son) upon those created beings who persist in rebellion.  He will also act to restore and heal the earth. 

There had to be TWO, so that One could die (actually, literally "die") to save Their creation.  

Trinitarians believe in THREE divine persons in one "God".  I believe in TWO.