Dennis1209 Posted February 13, 2020 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 18 Topic Count: 350 Topics Per Day: 0.13 Content Count: 7,512 Content Per Day: 2.70 Reputation: 5,412 Days Won: 1 Joined: 09/27/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted February 13, 2020 10 minutes ago, charisenexcelsis said: I don't think either is right or wrong. Epi is very distinct in meaning from "en" or "eis". The translation when speaking of etching is the issue. You etch upon something, yet you can also say something was etched in. It is not an question of the Greek, only of the English. Exactly the point we're discussing, with the meaning of "in" or "on". But in this particular context, the word has significant meaning and implications about this 'mark'. It would be a benefit to know if this 'mark' was internal or external. Watching and witnessing symbolic identifications of some radical Islamic terrorist groups are utilizing [bandanna's etc.]. And the technology that has been developed the size smaller than a grain of rice with the potential purposes it could be used for... In or on becomes significant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis1209 Posted February 14, 2020 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 18 Topic Count: 350 Topics Per Day: 0.13 Content Count: 7,512 Content Per Day: 2.70 Reputation: 5,412 Days Won: 1 Joined: 09/27/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted February 14, 2020 2 minutes ago, charisenexcelsis said: you will find more support in understanding the word for mark, then trying to redefine the Greek word "epi". I would like to know which Greek scholar would give the definition of "epi" as "in"? I believe you are confusing translation with interpretation. Revelation 14:9 (KJVSL) And καί the third τρίτος angel ἄγγελος followed ἀκολουθέω them αὐτός, saying λέγω with ἐν a loud μέγας voice φωνή, If any man εἴ τις worship προσκυνέω the beast θηρίον and καί his αὐτός image εἰκών, and καί receive λαμβάνω his mark χάραγμα in ἐπί his αὐτός forehead μέτωπον, or ἤ in ἐπί his αὐτός hand χείρ, [emphesis added] For one, Spiros Zodhiates, "The Complete Word Study Dictionary, New Testament", EPI, Strong's number 1909, pages 618 - 622. That's a lot of pages and explanation for a two letter word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis1209 Posted February 14, 2020 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 18 Topic Count: 350 Topics Per Day: 0.13 Content Count: 7,512 Content Per Day: 2.70 Reputation: 5,412 Days Won: 1 Joined: 09/27/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted February 14, 2020 3 minutes ago, charisenexcelsis said: This is not Zodhiates translation. He was a fine scholar, who would have, at the very beginning of his study on "epi" given the base meaning as "upon"When he taught, he used Machen. He would never have left words out. The above verse was a copy paste from my program to just include the Greek word. I did not quote or attach anything from Zodhiates, as I only have his works in hard copy. We're not accomplishing anything here but bantering back and forth, but it was a nice conversation, thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canada Posted February 14, 2020 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 9 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 183 Content Per Day: 0.09 Reputation: 43 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/04/2018 Status: Offline Author Share Posted February 14, 2020 On 2/12/2020 at 3:39 PM, canada said: Are there any here that believe the image of the beast, the mark of the beast and the numbered beast have come to pass? After three pages, I guess I can assume that there are none here that believe the image mark and numbered beast have come to pass. Likely no historicists here also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Truth_Seeker Posted March 2, 2020 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 9 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 145 Content Per Day: 0.09 Reputation: 62 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/01/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted March 2, 2020 (edited) On 2/14/2020 at 10:47 PM, Sonshine said: (The subject I’m referring to here is whether “in” or “on” [the forehead] is the correct translation.) Thing is if looking at the original greek word for "mark", G5480 charagma, this could also relate to engraving. If you look at the action involved in engraving, when one engraves onto some kind of surface, the surface concerned will have to be cut into. How many times can people accidentally cut themselves with a knife in the kitchen? The action concerned involved cutting through the skin. I think a alternative word in a medical context could be a "incision". So if someone was to inject themselves with something, that could qualify because the needle used has to go through the skin. I have been starting to think if the mark of the beast could be disguised as some type of antidote in response to a major disease outbreak that literally threatens everyone. The question is, what is going inside the person once they accept the mark of the beast? Edited March 2, 2020 by The_Truth_Seeker 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diaste Posted March 11, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 14 Topic Count: 67 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 6,641 Content Per Day: 1.98 Reputation: 2,372 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/17/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted March 11, 2020 On 2/14/2020 at 4:47 AM, Sonshine said: ....And I’m so glad that we have the entire Word of God, the Bible, to make clear the meaning of a two-letter preposition. It’s the knowledge of God’s Word, with the help of the Holy Spirit, that gives us spiritual discernment whereby we can understand with spiritual eyes and ears wide open. What does the rest of the Bible teach regarding this subject? (The subject I’m referring to here is whether “in” or “on” [the forehead] is the correct translation.) I agree. Our understanding cannot hinge on a preposition. If it's any indication of where the church is it's seems we find it here as 'in' or 'on' seems pivotal to wisdom. That being said I think the whole idea is a spiritual one. How ever the mark is applied is not the issue. If the mark is worn or tattooed in it's only a symbol of a heart condition and the individual's pledge of allegiance to the beast. Rev 13:16-17 might as well read, "He causes all to swear an oath of loyalty to the beast so they can partake in his kingdom." Not about the mark, it's about who we trust. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Last Daze Posted March 11, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 84 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 4,011 Content Per Day: 1.12 Reputation: 2,519 Days Won: 4 Joined: 07/17/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted March 11, 2020 2 hours ago, Diaste said: If the mark is worn or tattooed in it's only a symbol of a heart condition and the individual's pledge of allegiance to the beast. Rev 13:16-17 might as well read, "He causes all to swear an oath of loyalty to the beast so they can partake in his kingdom." Not about the mark, it's about who we trust. Agreed. Of greater concern should be the image. That's what people are forced to worship under the penalty of death. The mark and the image work in tandem. The image is a code of conduct that affirms the man of sin's dominion over the world, and the mark is the enforcement mechanism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRose Posted March 12, 2020 Group: Non-Trinitarian Followers: 2 Topic Count: 93 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 271 Content Per Day: 0.18 Reputation: 19 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/10/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted March 12, 2020 On 2/12/2020 at 11:39 PM, canada said: Are there any here that believe the image of the beast, the mark of the beast and the numbered beast have come to pass? I'm inclined to believe the mark will actually be something on the lines of Cookies permission as without accepting the mark of the cookies we cannot use many websites or services. There are masses of people outside the taxed economy who exchange goods and services for money and they will continue to thrive without the mark. Howveer here in UK all roads now have Automatic Number Plate Cameras that check every vehicle is taxed and insured so while a lot of crooks can get by on false plates the ANP systems will be getting better and hold more info so eventually it will be impossible to drive without correct documents. Maybe the CCTV on fuel pumps will be linked in to prevent anyone with untaxed cars from buying fuel. Same goes for buying or renting a home, opening a bank account or finding a doctor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canada Posted March 13, 2020 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 9 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 183 Content Per Day: 0.09 Reputation: 43 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/04/2018 Status: Offline Author Share Posted March 13, 2020 5 hours ago, XRose said: I'm inclined to believe the mark will actually be something on the lines of Cookies permission as without accepting the mark of the cookies we cannot use many websites or services. There are masses of people outside the taxed economy who exchange goods and services for money and they will continue to thrive without the mark. Howveer here in UK all roads now have Automatic Number Plate Cameras that check every vehicle is taxed and insured so while a lot of crooks can get by on false plates the ANP systems will be getting better and hold more info so eventually it will be impossible to drive without correct documents. Maybe the CCTV on fuel pumps will be linked in to prevent anyone with untaxed cars from buying fuel. Same goes for buying or renting a home, opening a bank account or finding a doctor And how would "cookies" apply to the right hand and/or forehead? Revelation implies that the image, mark and number are all ... interconnected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRose Posted March 13, 2020 Group: Non-Trinitarian Followers: 2 Topic Count: 93 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 271 Content Per Day: 0.18 Reputation: 19 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/10/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted March 13, 2020 On 2/12/2020 at 11:39 PM, canada said: Are there any here that believe the image of the beast, the mark of the beast and the numbered beast have come to pass? I'm inclined to believe the mark will actually be something on the lines of Cookies permission as without accepting the mark of the cookies we cannot use many websites or services. There are masses of people outside the taxed economy who exchange goods and services for money and they will continue to thrive without the mark. Howveer here in UK all roads now have Automatic Number Plate Cameras that check every vehicle is taxed and insured so while a lot of crooks can get by on false plates the ANP systems will be getting better and hold more info so eventually it will be impossible to drive without correct documents. Maybe the CCTV on fuel pumps will be linked in to prevent anyone with untaxed cars from buying fuel. Same goes for buying or renting a home, opening a bank account or finding a doctor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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