Who's right and who's wrong

[Daniel Marsh]

On 2/21/2020 at 9:34 AM, Salvation67 said:

I read on various Christian sites and forums where some say once you are saved you never sin again and some say it is a process that gradually happens as the Holy spirit works in you, and some say you simply dont want to sin again once you are saved. Can any one clear this up for me? I'm having trouble finding things on the matter in scripture. I am a new follower and could use some sound input.

We seek to live a holy life,  see II Peter 1   from time to time, we sin

1 John 1: 8-10 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)

⁸  If we say that we have no sin, we are fooling ourselves, and the truth is not in us. ⁹  But if we confess our sins, God will forgive us. We can trust God to do this. He always does what is right. He will make us clean from all the wrong things we have done. ¹⁰  If we say that we have not sinned, we are saying that God is a liar and that we don't accept his true teaching.

[steve morrow]

salvation67

BELIEVE  IN  THE  LORD  JESUS  CHRIST 

do not believe in man --- TRUST  IN  GOD  ALWAYS  UNTO  SALVATION 

2 TIMOTHY 3:16  --ALL SCRIPTURE-- is given by inspiration of GOD and is profitable--FOR  DOCTRINE--FOR  REPROOF--FOR  CORRECTION--FOR  INSTRUCTION  IN  RIGHTEOUSNESS 

1 THESSALONIANS 5:21  prove all things hold fast that which is good 

MARK 10:18  and  JESUS said unto him why callest thou ME good there is none good but one --THAT  IS  GOD--

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

JOHN 12:44  JESUS cried and said he that believeth on ME believeth not on ME --BUT-- on HIM that sent ME 

JOHN  12:49  for I have not spoken of myself but THE  FATHER which sent ME HE gave ME a commandment what I should say and what I should speak --12:50--  and I know that HIS commandment is life everlasting whatsoever I speak therefore even as THE  FATHER said unto ME so I speak 

JOHN 15:1  I am the true vine and  MY  FATHER  is the husbandman --15:2-- every branch in ME that beareth not fruit HE taketh away and every branch that beareth fruit HE purgeth it that it may bring forth more fruit 

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

GOD  SAYS  GRACE  IS 

TITUS  2:11  FOR  THE  GRACE  OF  GOD  THAT  BRINGETH  SALVATION  HATH  APPEARED  TO  ALL  MEN --2:12-- TEACHING  US --  that denying ungodliness and worldly lusts --WE SHOULD-- live soberly--righteously and godly in this present world 

ROMANS 5:217  for if by one mans offence death reigned by one much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one --JESUS  CHRIST--

MATTHEW 7:13  enter you in at the strait gate for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leadeth to destruction --and many-- there be which go in thereat --7:14-- because strait is the gate and narrow is the way which leadeth unto life ---AND  FEW  THERE  BE  THAT  FIND  IT---

 

COLOSSIANS 1:21 and you that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works yet now hath HE reconciled --1:22-- in the body of HIS flesh through death to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in HIS sight ---IF  YOU  CONTINUE--- in the faith grounded and settled and be not moved away form the hope of the gospel which you have heard and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven whereof I paul am made a minister 

 

ACTS 20:29  for I know this that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you not sparing the flock --ACTS 20:30-- also of your own selves shall men arise speaking perverse things to draw away disciples after them 

ACTS 14:22 confirming the souls of the disciples and exhorting them to continue --in the faith--and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of  GOD

PHILIPPIANS 1:29  for unto you it is given in the behalf of  CHRIST  not only to believe on HIM but also to suffer for HIS sake 

 

1 PETER 4:1  forasmuch then as  CHRIST  hath suffered for us in the flesh arm yourselves likewise with the same mind for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin ---4:2--- THAT  HE  NO  LONGER  SHOULD  LIVE  THE  REST  OF  HIS  TIME  IN  THE  FLESH  TO  THE  LUSTS  OF  MEN  --- BUT  TO  THE  WILL  OF  GOD

LUKE 22:41  and HE was withdrawn from them about a stones cast and kneeled down and prayed 

LUKE 22:42  saying  FATHER  if  thou  be  willing  remove this cup from ME nevertheless not my will but thine be done  --22:43-- and there appeared an angel unto HIM from heaven strengthening HIM

LUKE 22:44  and being in agony HE prayed more earnestly and HIS sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground 

 

HEBREWS 5:8  THOUGH  HE  WERE  A  SON  HE  LEARNED  OBEDIENCE  BY  THE  THINGS  WHICH  HE  SUFFERED --5:9-- AND  BEING  MADE  PERFECT  HE  BECAME  THE  AUTHOR  OF  ETERNAL  SALVATION  UNTO  ALL  THEM --- THAT  OBEY  HIM ---

 

2 CORINTHIANS 7:10  FOR  GODLY  SORROW  WORKETH  REPENTANCE  TO  SALVATION  NOT  TO  BE  REPENTED  OF  BUT  THE  SORROW  OF  THE  WORLD  WORKETH  DEATH

 

LOVING  THE  LORD  JESUS  CHRIST 

 

 

[Salvation67]

Thanks to all who have responded to my post concerning this, your posts have helped me understand and have given me great comfort and encouragement, I guess you could say I just have alot of growing to do and need to understand it will not happen over night and will not happen  on my own. Thanks again to all. You have been a blessing.

[JohnD]

On 2/21/2020 at 8:34 AM, Salvation67 said:

I read on various Christian sites and forums where some say once you are saved you never sin again and some say it is a process that gradually happens as the Holy spirit works in you, and some say you simply dont want to sin again once you are saved. Can any one clear this up for me? I'm having trouble finding things on the matter in scripture. I am a new follower and could use some sound input.

I am sure by now you are quite beleaguered by responses. Still, I must add my say in case you or others who have this same question need answers.

The Law was given to establish what sin is and to distinguish it from righteousness.

It was also given to convict mankind of sin.

It also proves mankind cannot save itself.

As long as we all remain in these bodies on this Earth, we are going to be plagued with sin

(ours and others').

We CAN discipline ourselves to sin less, avoid certain sins, and in the process spare ourselves and others

a lot of grief. But we will always have to contend with sin in this life.

I suggest you avoid those who try to weaponize the Bible by bringing Law into Grace.

They are not the same thing and are diametrically opposed to one another.

It tends to come through subtle, ignorant ways, even if mostly well meaning...

The Sermon on the Mount (Matthew chapters 5-7) for example is the true divine commentary on the Old Testament

(Law).

Sorry about that, Talmud authors.

Jesus contrasted what the religious leaders did to the Law (adding to it and misinterpreting it) with what he meant when

he gave it to Moses (Exodus 3:14 / John 8:58) through the Holy Spirit (2 Peter 1:21). The Sermon on he Mount was about the Law

while Jesus lived under the Law (because the New Covenant would not begin until his death on the cross see Hebrews 9:16-17).

Jesus said "My yoke is easy, my burden is light." ← hard to believe when the Church tries to put the weight of the Old Covenant

on your back.

Yes it's best not to sin.

Of course God hates sin.

But hardly a day passes that each and everyone of us does not sin (by commission or omission).

That's what 1 John 1:9 is all about. Isn't it?

The lesson to learn is we CANNOT save ourselves, and we MUST NOT try to add anything to the Grace of our Lord who ALONE

saves us. 

We can grow in Christ. The best way to do so is to discover your individual calling. Finding out what your spiritual gifts are. And

take part in the believer's commission...

Matthew 28:19–20 (NASB95)
19 “Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,
20 teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”

God's commandments for New Covenant believers is to believe in Christ and to get others saved. That's where the emphasis is in the New Covenant,

not on Law keeping.

You may not be an evangelist, go support one (watch their kids while they go evangelize).

You may have other spiritual gifts, teaching... doing financial records, being a big brother or sister to a needy kid... there are millions of 

individual ministries believers can do in support of the over all effort to get the Gospel out to every creature in every generation. 

And when you blow it read 1 John 1:5- 1 John 2:17 as a single passage over and over until you realize God is not in the head bonking business over sin anymore.

BTW, Psalm 51:4 indicates that confession is to God alone.

The New Covenant is all about believing Jesus Christ (John 3:16-18, Ephesians 2:8-10, 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, John 16:26-27).

We are no longer under the Law:

Galatians 3:24–28 (NASB95)
24 Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith.
25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.
26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

And if there is a problem with our sin, God can deal with us individually. Even to the point of taking us out if there's something we just will not give up...

1 Corinthians 5:5 (AV)
5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

That's assuring in one way, and scary in the other. Can't think of a worse thing than being turned over to the enemy of God for the destruction of the flesh. He HATES us.

[Blood Bought 1953]

On 3/5/2020 at 2:55 AM, Taranis said:

Everybody is wrong.

You have to become Christ Like.

Then you will Know.

YOU MUST BECOME Christ like.

Then you will know.

What amount of time do you spend trying to be Like Christ?

It should be every minute of every day.

 

God is not looking for Spiritual “ imitation”......He is looking for Spiritual FRUITION ......only the Holy Spirit can perform this task.......

[Behold]

On 2/21/2020 at 8:34 AM, Salvation67 said:

I read on various Christian sites and forums where some say once you are saved you never sin again and some say it is a process that gradually happens as the Holy spirit works in you, and some say you simply dont want to sin again once you are saved. Can any one clear this up for me? I'm having trouble finding things on the matter in scripture. I am a new follower and could use some sound input.

To understand the Grace of God, you have to be taught the basics  about the Law and its previous dominion it had over you, BEFORE you were Born Again.  

The Law, is the OT, and its the 10 Commandments.

When you are born, you are under the dominion of the Law.  This means, you are looking in a HOLY Mirror, and the Law is reflecting back to you, how you rate,.   And that is the problem.  As the law is Holy and Perfect, and you and all of us are sinners before we are born again.  So, the law, is God's means to show you, what you are, as compared to HIM regarding HOLINESS.     The LAW reflects pure holiness back at you, and when we look at it, we see ourselves as lost, sinners,  SINFUL.

So, this law that is JUDGING US......how do we escape it?   How do we stop being under it, being defined by it, and JUDGED BY IT ?

In Steps, JESUS>.  Who lived a sinless life, kept the law, and died in our place, taking the Law's judgement that was Against US, .....upon Himself.  This is the Grace of God.  Its Christ taking the law's ability to judge us as sinners, upon himself, and satisfying the Law's requirement or punishment, that is DUE US for breaking the Law. = Christ DIED in our place.  And His death, "redeems us from the curse of the law"... It literally FREES us from the Law's dominion and Judgment previously DUE US in eternity......

So, once we are no longer under the law's dominion, (Born Again)..... the law can no longer judge us as a SINNER, ever again, because JESUS has removed this situation from us.

GRACE has now become our Law.  And this is why the NT tells us that "we are NO LONGER UNDER THE LAW.........BUT, we are UNDER GRACE".

NOW, go to your NT, and read Romans 4:8.   And you will discovered that all the born again have this blessed situation as their born again situation... This verse will teach you that when you do something that would be considered a SIN after you are born again..........God no longer charges you with that sin.   And why?  because He  no longer has the power of the LAW that you were previously under, to judge that deed as a SIN.  And the reason is because JESUS has died for that sin, and the rest, and by and thru His death, we are freed from God's judgement in Eternity, because of Christ's finished work, on the cross.

If you study more, you'll discover that Paul no longer defines our "sin" as sin, ... he defines it as "works of the flesh".....and that is because the LAW has no more power to judge us as sinning.

Where there is no law, there is no way for anything to be defined as a "sin".   "where there is no law, there is no Transgression".   "we are not under the Law, but UNDER GRACE".

This is the effect,  the eternal effect of the CROSS and the Shed Blood of Jesus for ALL the Born Again.

The most simple way i can explain this to you, is this......before you were saved you were married to the Law.   But thru the DEATH of CHRIST, you have now been born again and become dead to the law through the body of Christ.... and you are NOW married to the RISEN Christ,  (HIS BRIDE)....and that is why the Law has no more ability to ever judge you as a "sinner" ever again.    This is why your NT defines you as a SAINT and not a sinner.

The blood of Jesus, applied to you, has made you a NEW CREATION "in Christ".  and the "gift of righteousness" has now made you as righteous as the One who gave you that eternal "gift of righteousness".

Edited March 9, 2020 by Behold

[steve morrow]

salvation67  and  all  --IF  YOU  DONT  OBEY  GOD  THEN  WHO  ARE  YOU  OBEYING--

COLOSSIANS 2:8  beware lest --any man-- spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit after the tradition of men after the rudiments of the world --- AND  NOT  AFTER  CHRIST ---

JOHN 14:15 IF  YOU  LOVE ME  KEEP  MY  COMMANDMENTS

*******1 CORINTHIANS 16:22  --if any man-- love not THE  LORD  JESUS  CHRIST -- let him be anathema/cursed --- maranatha/ come thou LORD******* 

JOHN 21:15  so when they had dined  JESUS  saith to simon peter simon son of jonas ---lovest thou  ME  more than these he saith unto  HIM  yea  LORD  thou knowest that I love thee  HE  saith unto him feed  MY  lambs 

JOHN 10:27  MY  sheep hear  MY  voice and I know them and they follow  ME

ROMANS 10:17  so then faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of --GOD--

 

1 JOHN 2:27  but the anointing which you have received of  HIM   abideth in you and you need not ---that any man should teach you--- but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things --and is truth-- and is no lie-- and even as it hath taught you ---YOU  SHALL  ABIDE  IN  HIM---

 

1 JOHN 3:10  in this the children of  GOD  are manifest and the children of the devil --- WHOSOEVER  DOETH  NOT  RIGHTEOUSNESS  IS  NOT  OF  GOD --- neither he that loveth not his brother

PROVERBS 8:8  all the words ---of  MY  mouth--- are in righteousness there is nothing froward or perverse in them

ROMANS 6:16 know you not that to whom you yield yourselves servants to obey his servants you are to whom you obey whether of sin unto death --or of obedience unto righteousness 

 

1 JOHN 4:21  and this commandment have we --FROM  HIM-- that he who loveth  GOD  love his brother also

1 JOHN 2:10  he that loveth his brother abideth in the light and there is none occasion of stumbling in him

PSALM 119:130  the entrance of thy words --giveth light-- it giveth understanding unto the simple  

ISAIAH 8:20  to the law and to the testimony --IF  THEY  SPEAK  NOT--according to this word it is because there is no light in them 

JOHN 1:4  IN  HIM  WAS  LIFE  AND  THE  LIFE  WAS  THE  LIGHT  OF  MEN  --1:5-- AND  THE  LIGHT  SHINETH  IN  DARKNESS  AND  THE  DARKNESS  COMPREHENDED  IT  NOT 

GALATIANS 6:2  BEAR  YOU  ONE  ANOTHERS  BURDEN  AND  SO  FULFIL  ---THE  LAW  OF  CHRIST---

 

LOVING  THE  LORD  JESUS  CHRIST  AND  --HIS-- SAINTS/BRETHREN

[Prycejosh1987]

On 2/21/2020 at 2:34 PM, Salvation67 said:

I read on various Christian sites and forums where some say once you are saved you never sin again and some say it is a process that gradually happens as the Holy spirit works in you, and some say you simply dont want to sin again once you are saved. Can any one clear this up for me? I'm having trouble finding things on the matter in scripture. I am a new follower and could use some sound input.

It is not once saved always saved, the disciple Paul preaches extensively on this subject.  Sin will always be in your life but the aim is to try and sin as little as possible. Study of the gospels will help you on your spiritual journey and also the writings after the books of acts. Good luck.

[Alive]

53 minutes ago, Prycejosh1987 said:

It is not once saved always saved, the disciple Paul preaches extensively on this subject.  Sin will always be in your life but the aim is to try and sin as little as possible. Study of the gospels will help you on your spiritual journey and also the writings after the books of acts. Good luck.

Yes it is OSAS! A understanding of what happens on the Cross, the Resurrection and the Ascension and our inclusion in those historical events make this clear.

We have eternal Life, and that Life is Christ and we have Christ as our Life. The Old Adam died and a New Creation was raised.

Dealing with sin and the flesh is a process of sanctification after being saved and has nothing to do with the finished work of the Cross.

Its a matter of History, friend. The Father placed us into Christ and all that is true of him regarding those three points of history are also true of us.

Your Life is now hidden with Christ in God...you are a member of His divine family, now and His glorious Blood has cleansed you of all sin--when the Father looks at you--He sees the Righteousness of Christ. No power on heaven or earth can change this.

[Justin Adams]

5 minutes ago, Alive said:

Yes it is OSAS! A understanding of what happens on the Cross, the Resurrection and the Ascension and our inclusion in those historical events make this clear.

We have eternal Life, and that Life is Christ and we have Christ as our Life. The Old Adam died and a New Creation was raised.

Dealing with sin and the flesh is a process of sanctification after being saved and has nothing to do with the finished work of the Cross.

Its a matter of History, friend. The Father placed us into Christ and all that is true of him regarding those three points of history are also true of us.

Your Life is now hidden with Christ in God...you are a member of His divine family, now and His glorious Blood has cleansed you of all sin--when the Father looks at you--He sees the Righteousness of Christ. No power on heaven or earth can change this.

Yes. What we could not do morally to be saved, we cannot do immorally to lose Salvation. So long as we do not turn away and go after others gods or no gods. Believing Loyalty will keep us on the right path. The whole book of Hebrews speaks to this fact. It speaks to Jewish Christians and Gentile Christians alike. It also warns against Judaizers too.

 

Edited July 10, 2020 by Justin Adams