Blood Bought 1953 Posted March 24, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 13 Topic Count: 48 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 6,726 Content Per Day: 2.86 Reputation: 6,258 Days Won: 5 Joined: 12/03/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted March 24, 2020 18 hours ago, Ineedhugs said: Blood bought i really must disagree with you. I know i said i'm struggling with sin but i will overcome. Anyway, God and Jesus say throughout the bible to repent of your sins and Paul also writes that every temptation you have is common to man and God will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you can bear, but we provide a way out so that you can endure it. Now, look at sin in the bible. God commanded Moses that if anyone sins willfully they are to be cut off from their people, only accidental sins can be covered by a burnt offering, that was Gods initial command. Also, there was a man who gathered firewood on the sabbath while wandering through the desert and God commanded that he be stoned. Also, a man named Uzziah i think, while walking beside the Ark of God the donkey carrying the ark stumbled, so Uzziah reached out his hand to steady it and God struck him down because it was sacred. Adam and Eve disobeyed God and they lost paradise and would die. Do you know see how serious sin is in Gods eyes? Our sins also drove Jesus Christ to the cross. He had to be crucified in order for us to be forgiven. Do you think it is 'ok' for us then to continue to sin after what Jesus did? Your spitting in his face if you do that. Also read Hebrews 10:26, which says if you become a Christian and willfully sin after receiving Jesus then no sacrifice is left, but only a fear of judgement. Now i know God has always given people time to repent but Hebrews 10:26 shows the seriousness of sin. Do you still think it's 'ok' to sin after reading this? The bible throughout tells people to repent! Oops.......sorry......computer dotard here.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omegaman 3.0 Posted March 24, 2020 Group: Graduated to Heaven Followers: 57 Topic Count: 1,546 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 10,320 Content Per Day: 1.41 Reputation: 12,323 Days Won: 9 Joined: 04/15/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/05/1951 Share Posted March 24, 2020 Haven't read the thread, doubt I will, but I will react to the title. If it means what I think it sounds like it means, I probably would not disagree in principle, I probably would have worded it it differently unless was was trying for shock value or to cause controversy. My title might not be that different, but probably would be more like: Hell is humanities default destination! Of course the rest of the story is, that is unless Someone intervenes! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blood Bought 1953 Posted March 24, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 13 Topic Count: 48 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 6,726 Content Per Day: 2.86 Reputation: 6,258 Days Won: 5 Joined: 12/03/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted March 24, 2020 16 minutes ago, Desopixi Seilynam said: "If we sin willingly (against Christ: verse 29) after that we have come to the realization of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice of sin, but a certain looking for of judgement and firey indignation which shall devour the adversaries" Hebrews 10:24-29 And therefore we should assemble together to provoke one another unto love and to good works; for the realization is that we are to follow Christ; and Christ taught love and good works; Luke 6:27-49. "those that practice [the works of the flesh] shall not inherit the kingdom of God" Galatians 5:19-21 "he that overcomes shall inherit... but the fearful and unbelieving... and all liars shall have their part in the lake of fire" Revelation 21:7-8. "blessed are they that do His(Jesus's) commands that they may enter... for outside are... all who love and practice a lie" Revelation 22:14-15. "he that has my commands and keeps them, he it is that loves me" John 14:21 "If any man loves not the Lord Jesus Christ, let that man be anathema, Oh Lord Come!" 1 Corinthians 16:22 Wow! Scary stuff indeed! I know how to get around all of that stuff .......God Promised to “save to the UTTERMOST , All Of Those That would come to Him through Faith in His Son”......God made that Promise— NOT me ! The Onus is on Him to fulfill a His Promise— and it is “ impossible for God to lie.” If there is anything out there that could undo my Salvation.....it is up to Him to make certain that I do not do it..... If there is anything out there that I must do to purchase or keep my Salvation it is up to Him to see that I DO it..... God Promises to Save......I actually believe He will do it.....It so great to REST in the Promises Of God.....Try it sometime! It’s called “ Faith.” It’s what saves a Soul.We provide the Faith.....He gives us His Spirit....His Spirit transforms us into the Image Of God.....we accomplish the things that please God Without even trying .......Behaviors that once were Commanded now occur naturally.....Old friends will probably notice before YOU do.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Your closest friendnt Posted March 24, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,871 Content Per Day: 2.41 Reputation: 2,765 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/05/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted March 24, 2020 11 minutes ago, Jostler said: wow... friend you really need to get serious about the task He assigned us in Hebrews 6:1-3, especially that fundamental, foundational doctrine of Christ called "eternal judgment".....all six are fundamentally important but if you think unrepentant sinning isn't going to cost....whew. It would be better to study that out rather than end up horribly surprised on at the Great White Throne Judgment. He took care of our destination, but we determine what shape we arrive in and what level of ability, responsibility, manifest glory and authority we will walk in in the new heavens and earth. He will dry them, but there will be many tears shed on that day....and the losses will be eternal, unrecoverable....forever. Hello Jostler, because you love the Lord... I would like to clarify the issues... This is has nothing to do with my personal walk...I am not a sinner...in the past, I used to like some sins...but I decided that one of the things to show my gratitude to Jesus my thank you to him ...I repeat it is to be careful not to sin...but not out of the fear of HELL...but to avoid entrapment in afflictions, for most of the sins are addictive and take one over, his mind and his time and a lot more time spent in regrets and distress of ones self... Less time for thinking about sins more time to think the things of Jesus Christ...more time for Jesus less time for the sinful things of the world...there are also beautiful things in the world.... I always keep in mind...that the Gospel calls to faith any one as he/she is... which faith results to righteousness by faith..the Gospel is asking anyone to believe as they are...in any state that they are in... And then Jesus calls his own to repentance...in a special way that is most suitable to each one of us.....only he knows the degree of afflictions of each one of us....the mind distortions ...the emotional state the broken hearts....man do you know what this is...the fears, even the new fear of the devil.... Jesus wants people to repent in his name, to bring their problems to him....after they believe.. Jesus has forgiven us when he died on the CROSS...that's when he was published for our sins...propritiation... I never say to any one don't repent...I say grow in the Lord....more of the light less of the sins of the world.... You brought many issues up for discussion...in due time... I want to go back and address the OP...I plan to quote your post...I see many slips... soon... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Your closest friendnt Posted March 24, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,871 Content Per Day: 2.41 Reputation: 2,765 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/05/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted March 24, 2020 39 minutes ago, Omegaman 3.0 said: Haven't read the thread, doubt I will, but I will react to the title. If it means what I think it sounds like it means, I probably would not disagree in principle, I probably would have worded it it differently unless was was trying for shock value or to cause controversy. My title might not be that different, but probably would be more like: Hell is humanities default destination! Of course the rest of the story is, that is unless Someone intervenes! "Hell is humanities default destination" This is not what the scripture says. ◄ 1 Corinthians 15:55 ► Parallel Verses King James Version O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? Darby Bible Translation Where, O death, is thy sting? where, O death, thy victory? World English Bible "Death, where is your sting? Hades, where is your victory?" Young's Literal Translation where, O Death, thy sting? where, O Hades, thy victory? It's your turn to give scriptures reference... That after the Cross and the resurrection... Jesus been the Judge of all and having the Keys of Hades and Death... And considered the scriptures...Ephesians 4: 8 KJ21 Therefore He saith, “When He ascended up on high, He led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.” ASV Wherefore he saith, When he ascended on high, he led captivity captive, And gave gifts unto men. AMP Therefore it says, “When He ascended on high, He led captivity captive, And He bestowed gifts on men.” AMPC Therefore it is said, When He ascended on high, He led captivity captive [He led a train of vanquished foes] and He bestowed gifts on men. The scriptures says the is no more CAPTIVITY...the Devil Has been judge... The seed of the woman crushed his head.... Destroy the Devils right over humanity.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omegaman 3.0 Posted March 24, 2020 Group: Graduated to Heaven Followers: 57 Topic Count: 1,546 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 10,320 Content Per Day: 1.41 Reputation: 12,323 Days Won: 9 Joined: 04/15/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/05/1951 Share Posted March 24, 2020 2 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said: "Hell is humanities default destination" Agree to disagree. All are sinners, there is none who seeks God, not one righteous, that means that all are going to Hell, unless some one of sufficient worth, authority, and righteousness step is and intervenes. People so not acquire Hell by their actions, the sin because they are sinners. The aquire salvation bye His actions, the gospel is not complicated. You sin, you die. If God intervenes, He saves you from that. That is the good new. It is good news, because apart from that good news, is is bad news! I do not need to quote scripture, I know you either know them or can find them, the ones you quoted, actually illustrate the point, that there is no sting in death (for some) because God intervened with salvation, but not everyone is saved only those who are saved by His grace, through faith, and that is a gift from God. Quote The seed of the woman crushed his head.... Destroy the Devils right over humanity.. That last one is interesting, but the Devil does not have authority over humanity, God is the creator, He has the authority, He owns everything. Even the Devil, is God's devil. Satin does not send people to Hell. 4“I say to you, My friends, do not be afraid of those who kill the body and after that have no more that they can do. 5“But I will warn you whom to fear: fear the One who, after He has killed, has authority to cast into hell; yes, I tell you, fear Him! Eternity is in God's hands! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choir loft Posted March 24, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 70 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,221 Content Per Day: 0.38 Reputation: 335 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/23/2015 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/10/1947 Share Posted March 24, 2020 (edited) 16 hours ago, Ineedhugs said: There is a hell. Go read the new testament. I'll name a few. Matthew 25:46 Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life Mark 9:43 If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better to enter life maimed than to have two hands and be cast into hell. Matthew 25:41 Then he will say to those on his left, depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. Matthew 10:28 Do not be afraid of those who can kill the body and then do no more. Be afraid of he who, after killing the body, has authority to cast you into hell. Revelation 14:9-11 If anyone worships the beast and his image and receives their mark, they will drink the cup of Gods fury. They will be tormented with burning surfer in the presence of the holy angels and the lamb. The smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever and there will be no rest day or night. Matthew 23:23 You serpents, you brood of vipers, how will you escape the sentence of hell? Also, read the rich man and Lazarus Luke 16:19-31 There's probably more than this. Nobody talked about hell more than Jesus himself! To begin, the concept of immortal life began with the ancient Egyptians. Look it up. Eternal torment was NEVER a concept recognized in Hebrew literature or tradition. Look it up. When the Greek and Roman empires arose, they adapted the Egyptian myth into their own form of classic pagan religion. Hades, for example, was the god of the underworld. Hades was a mythical person, not a place. Look it up. In the first centuries of the Catholic corruption of Christianity the Roman myths of an underworld populated by the damned (a word that properly means condemned) was further adapted and adopted. Hades became a place of everlasting punishment instead of a person. Gehenna, which was in reality a city dump for the residents of Jerusalem, also became a synonym for everlasting punishment. Finally the English word hell isn't Biblical either. The word hell is derived from the Old English word hel, which in turn is derived from a pagan Anglo-Saxon myth also referring to the nether world. Hell was adopted into the English language in 725AD, long after Jesus' ascension into heaven. Look it up. All the concepts of eternal torment are pagan in nature, not originating with Hebrew scripture at all. Neither are they references made by Christ. (Hell was adopted in 725AD, long after Jesus' ascension into heaven.) Look it up. It's all true. Moving Forward...... In Hebrew, the place of the dead is called sheol. Also referred to as a place of darkness or a place where the spirits of the sleeping dead are sent. Nothing is said about torment, nothing at all. The Christian subversion of the meanings of words is rampant. In order to force false doctrine upon its members, the Catholic church, as well as aberrant Protestant sources, change the meanings of simple words. The concept is not unknown among those experts in political propaganda. For instance, dead means a condition devoid of life. It doesn't refer to unDead, an occult phrase popular today. Life refers to consciousness and continuity and fire refers to that which utterly destroys that which is exposed to it. In no instance does fire EVER suggest eternal life - including eternal torture. Its not rocket science except for those who seek to justify their own aberrations of doctrine into something God did not intend. When God said, "My Spirit will not contend with humans forever, for they are mortal" in Genesis 6:3a was He lying? When Timothy, St. Pauls protege, wrote in his first epistle chapter six verse sixteen of God that He, "alone is immortal and who lives in unapproachable light." was he too promoting a lie? Either the Bible is coherent with its representations or it is terribly inconsistent. Or perhaps certain people have been led to believe a lie. Which do you believe, pagan myth or Biblical truth? Matt 25:46 refers to judgment that has no reversal. It speaks to God's everlasting contempt for sinners and that He will destroy them utterly without hope of renewal. Mark 9:43 is a misquote. You failed to quote the rest of the verse which states the condemned would be cast into unquenchable fire and destroyed. Matt 25:41 also speaks of permanent irreversible and FINAL destruction by fire - the Second Death. (Do you know what 'death' means?) Matt 10:28 is another deliberate misquote by YOU. The rest of the verse promises total destruction of body & soul. Your quote of Revelation 14 mentions the sea-beast. In the Bible a beast represents a system an organization or a nation. Specifically the quote refers to a religious system. Since it is impossible for systems organizations or nations to experience pain and torment, the section is meant to be taken figuratively. If not, then please show me another section of scripture which suggests otherwise. One cannot base a dogma on a singe verse and approach clarity or truth or intent of God to teach. The correct quote of Matthew 23:23 is as follows; "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint and dill and cummin, and have neglected the weightier provisions of the law: justice and mercy and faithfulness; but these are the things you should have done without neglecting the others." Once again you have misquoted scripture to support a false doctrine. Popular and deliberate misconceptions of the afterlife continue in your often quoted section from the gospel of Luke describing the rich man and Lazarus (Luke chapter 16). The point of the story is that of Jesus' teaching a moral lesson. The background of the story was commonly known in Jesus' day as a type of folk story or fiction. Jesus used it to teach a moral lesson. There are numerous references to such folk tales which are mentioned by the Jewish historian Josephus as well as Biblical scholars such as Gressmann, Froom, Whiston, Edward White, Henry Constable and Edward William Fudge. Jesus often used related subjects to teach moral or spiritual lessons. I hope this helps some readers to understand the difference between pagan influence on modern dogma and what scripture is clearly teaching us all. Study to show yourself approved (2 Timothy 2:15) that's me, hollering from the choir loft... Edited March 24, 2020 by choir loft Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desopixi Seilynam Posted March 24, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,004 Content Per Day: 0.64 Reputation: 305 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/12/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted March 24, 2020 8 hours ago, Blood Bought 1953 said: I know how to get around all of that stuff What "stuff" Scripture? All scripture is from the Holy Ghost, therefore it all must be taken into account. The way we overcome is by following the Holy Ghost, not our own inclinations, but rather the clear directives we find in, scripture. If we grieve His Holy Spirit we become His enemies; Isaiah 63:10, Ephesians 4:30- 5:5, Philippians 3:18-19. And yes, dear one, all the promises of God are and must be true; "The enemies of the Lord will be as the splendor of the meadows; they shall vanish, into smoke shall they consume away" Psalm 37:20. Our belief that Christ died and rose from the dead should motivate us to obey Christ. 2 Corinthians 5:15. "Wherefore He is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever lives to make intercession for them" Hebrews 7:25 "they that are Christs have crucified the flesh with its passions and lusts" Galatians 5:24 Having come to God sincerely for forgiveness of and cleansing from sin, via faith in His Son. "He who began a good work in you will complete it until the day of Christ" Philippians 1:6. The only way it would not complete is if we are resisting any change, or ignoring any change, or thinking that we don't have to change, or thinking that we can't. Through His Spirit we can do all things. If you through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the flesh you shall live. What kind of life and death is Paul speaking about in Romans 8:13-14? God saved all flesh by shedding His Holy Spirit upon all flesh via the death and resurrection of His Son, the Holy Spirit is the actual gift we accept via faith in Christ; Acts 2:38. To reject the Holy Spirit, the work of the Holy Spirit in our life, is to reject Gods salvation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desopixi Seilynam Posted March 24, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,004 Content Per Day: 0.64 Reputation: 305 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/12/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted March 24, 2020 (edited) 26 minutes ago, choir loft said: Eternal torment was NEVER a concept recognized in Hebrew literature or tradition. "The sinners in Zion are afraid, fearfulness has surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? Who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?" Isaiah 33:14 "The streams thereof shall be turned into pitch, the dust into brimstone, and the land shall become burning pitch. It shall not be quenched day or night; the smoke thereof shall go up forever." Isaiah 34:9-10 The lake of fire is the second death, the method by which souls die; Isaiah 10:18, Matthew 10:28. All scripture must be true however; Daniel 12:2 "eternal abhorrence" Isaiah 33:14 "everlasting burnings". All will be resurrected, those not in the book of life, thrown into the lake of fire; Revelation 20:13-15. God is love, yes the lake ultimately can cause non-existence, but the choice to "sink or swim" will be up to the person, as it is now. Therefore many will choose to struggle forever against the flames, preferring to exist rather than not exist; however painful; and therefore there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. So no whips and chains, no direct torture, but the place is torturous by nature. Edited March 24, 2020 by Desopixi Seilynam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choir loft Posted March 24, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 70 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,221 Content Per Day: 0.38 Reputation: 335 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/23/2015 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/10/1947 Share Posted March 24, 2020 (edited) 6 hours ago, Desopixi Seilynam said: "The sinners in Zion are afraid, fearfulness has surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? Who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?" Isaiah 33:14 "The streams thereof shall be turned into pitch, the dust into brimstone, and the land shall become burning pitch. It shall not be quenched day or night; the smoke thereof shall go up forever." Isaiah 34:9-10 The lake of fire is the second death, the method by which souls die; Isaiah 10:18, Matthew 10:28. All scripture must be true however; Daniel 12:2 "eternal abhorrence" Isaiah 33:14 "everlasting burnings". All will be resurrected, those not in the book of life, thrown into the lake of fire; Revelation 20:13-15. God is love, yes the lake ultimately can cause non-existence, but the choice to "sink or swim" will be up to the person, as it is now. Therefore many will choose to struggle forever against the flames, preferring to exist rather than not exist; however painful; and therefore there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. So no whips and chains, no direct torture, but the place is torturous by nature. Nice fantasy. Chapter and verse from the Bible to justify your false interpretation, please. You are referring to a fiction published by Dante Alighieri in the middle ages. Of the three portions of his Divine Comedy, your post appears to refer to that which was titled 'Inferno'. The work was so exquisitely descriptive of the afterlife that it was accepted by millions as truth despite its sarcastic nature. It was the middle ages' version of Saturday Night Live and just like today it too was taken seriously when it was only meant as humor. In Dante's Inferno, the damned wrestled with torments. George Lucas used one of the verbal images in his sixth episode of Star Wars. When R2D2 is taken into Jabba the Hutt's dungeon, it sees another droid upside down having the soles of its feet burned. Same as a scene in Inferno. Good fiction. Poor doctrine. Everlasting burnings refers to the fire, not the fuel. Fire burns. Fuel is consumed. No fuel lasts forever. In order to make the idea of everlasting torment work, you must pervert the meaning of simple words; fire and death. This is the devil's work. Is it yours also? I certainly hope not. As I wrote earlier, if you can find a fuel that burns eternally please let me know so I can get some for my car. The use of the word FIRE in scripture is specific and describes total destruction of anything cast into it. So is the word DEATH. These are words with specific undiluted meanings. There is absolutely no description in scripture of the damned writhing in pain in the flame. Eternal abhorrence refers to a condition God declares to be irreversible. Once destroyed the condemned will not be reconsidered for another resurrection. Divine irreversibility is like yesterday. It will never come again - forever. The idea of eternal torment is consistent with Roman Catholic doctrine, which was formulated as fear mongering as well as an opportunity to persuade Biblically illiterate persons to give up hard earned money. The Catholic doctrine places lost souls in purgatory, a spiritual parking lot, wherein God can be bribed to release the damned from torture. MONEY is given to the priests for prayers on behalf of the dead. While you're looking up aberrations of doctrine in scripture, please also tell me where it says God can be bribed. You won't find it because God cannot be bribed. Now let the fear of the LORD be on you. Judge carefully, for with the LORD our God there is no injustice or partiality or bribery." - 2 Chronicles 19:7 If you buy the lie of eternal torment, then you must also accept the Catholic doctrine that God can be bribed, which He cannot. Which is it? Biblical truth or false Christian myth? You cannot have both. that's me, hollering from the choir loft... Edited March 24, 2020 by choir loft Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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