The Rapture Deception

[iamlamad]

3 hours ago, Diaste said:

2 Thess 2:1-8 tells us Jesus coming and the rapture comes after the man of sin is revealed.

And with that, I'm off this merry-go-round.

Good day.

 

A perfect example of preconceived glasses preventing one from seeing the truth or even WANTING to see the truth.  I suspected that all along.

What it REALLY says is the departing (of the church) must come first. 

Apo - stasia  a Greek Compound word. Strongs:

"apo:

of separation

of local separation, 

after verbs of motion from a place i.e. of departing, of fleeing,...

of separation of a part from the whole, where of a whole some part is taken

of any kind of separation of one thing from another by which the union or fellowship of the two is destroyed

of a state of separation, that is of distance; physical, of distance of place"

 

 

At the rapture, will some part of the entire population be taken? You know the answer is YES.

Will those taken be separated by DISTANCE? Again the answer is YES. 

The other part of the compound word 'stasia" is where we get "stationary" or "not moving" from.

Putting these two words together then can certainly mean a part of a whole group suddenly moved from where they were to a new location, and it happen so fast, the rest of the whole group seems stationary - not moving.

[iamlamad]

11 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, iamlamad.

And, THIS is why I don't trust the human writings called "commentaries!" There's too much allegorical thinking! Can't you just see that this is a PHYSICAL CITY that shall descend AND LAND upon the New Earth, becoming a MASSIVE replacement for the old Jerusalem? Revelation 21:2 is an example of a simile and Revelation 21:9 is an example of a metaphor!

Revelation 21:2 (KJV)

2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared AS a bride adorned for her husband.

Revelation 21:9-13 (KJV)

9 And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with (spoke with) me, saying,

"Come hither (Come here), I will shew thee 'the bride,' the Lamb's 'wife' (the Lamb's crowning achievement)!"

10 And he carried me away in the spirit (on the wind) to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, 11 Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal; 12 And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel: 13 On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates.

Yeshua`s not actually "married" to the city! It's silly to suggest otherwise! It's all shiny and new LIKE a bride on her wedding day! It's going to be a place of which to be EXTREMELY PROUD! After all, Yeshua`s been working on this city for almost 2,000 years now, preparing a place - a room or a "mansion" - for each one of us! (And, why shouldn't they be "mansion-sized apartments or condos?")

This city is SO HUGE that it takes going up to the top of a mountain over a thousand miles away for us, with our limited range of vision, to see it all!

It "comes down from God out of the sky," and since the atmosphere meets the ground all around us at the horizon, it LANDS! If it "hovers," as some have suggested, then it hasn't truly come "OUT of the sky!" Furthermore, there's no such thing as "hovering." Such a feat would use ENORMOUS amounts of energy!

Satellites don't "hover"; they "fall" perpetuously! It's kinda like Abbott and Costello:

Lou Costello: "The other day, I was so frustrated, I threw myself to the ground!"
Bud Abbott: "What happened?"
Lou Costello: "I missed it!"

That's PRECISELY what a satellite does! It's going so fast at its altitude, that it keeps falling to the ground and MISSING it, because the earth's curvature falls away from the satellite before it can get there! The path it traces is called an "orbit." That's how our moon - earth's primary satellite - orbits our earth.

But, this city's wall has FOUNDATIONS (Greek: themelioi), and one would think that at least the first of the twelve foundations would be actually sunk into the earth's crust! Furthermore, I believe the city will appear something like my avatar above, which shows the city with a cut-away section to see the foundations within. Both jasper and sard are red stones; that they are said to be "clear as crystal" is merely the clarity of the gemstone, not the color! "Jasper" today is called the "BLOODstone!" It's normally the dark green chalcedony with flecks of red jasper on its surface, like drops of blood. But, it's the FLECKS OF RED MINERAL WHICH LOOK LIKE BLOOD that are called "jasper," not the dark green chalcedony! The wall is said to consist of jasper, and the first foundation is of jasper. If the walls all meet together (since there's no mention of a roof), then we have a four-sided pyramid that is COMPLETELY COVERED in the "BLOOD!" I believe THAT makes it more valuable than mere "diamonds!" One does not enter the city without going THROUGH THE "BLOOD!" 

The rest of the "foundations," I believe, are foundations of the city at different levels within the walls of the city. The walls support each foundation, and the foundations provide support for the walls! One might even say that the city is STAMPED with the Trinity!

Some also suggest that this city represents the Holy Place and should therefore be a cube, but John said,

Revelation 21:22 (KJV)

22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it. 

And, the temple (or the Holy Place of the temple) is not the city itself either! The "temple" is God Himself and His Messiah, the PERSONS!

Finally, the wording is ...

Revelation 21:16 (KJV)

16 And the city lieth foursquare (Greek: tetragoonos keitai = "four-angled it-lies"), and the length is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs. The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal. 

To "lie foursquare" means to "cover a square area!" He confirms this with the next statement: "the length is as large as the breadth (or width)." A square is two-dimensional; a cube is three-dimensional. So far, it says NOTHING about the third dimension, "height!"

THEN, John adds, "The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal," bringing in the length ONLY of the third dimension. However, he said NOTHING about the shape, size, or directions of the walls leading to that height!

Yeshua`s not actually "married" to the city!   My point exactly.

[Diaste]

26 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

A perfect example of preconceived glasses preventing one from seeing the truth or even WANTING to see the truth.  I suspected that all along.

What it REALLY says is the departing (of the church) must come first. 

Apo - stasia  a Greek Compound word. Strongs:

"apo:

of separation

of local separation, 

after verbs of motion from a place i.e. of departing, of fleeing,...

of separation of a part from the whole, where of a whole some part is taken

of any kind of separation of one thing from another by which the union or fellowship of the two is destroyed

of a state of separation, that is of distance; physical, of distance of place"

 

 

At the rapture, will some part of the entire population be taken? You know the answer is YES.

Will those taken be separated by DISTANCE? Again the answer is YES. 

The other part of the compound word 'stasia" is where we get "stationary" or "not moving" from.

Putting these two words together then can certainly mean a part of a whole group suddenly moved from where they were to a new location, and it happen so fast, the rest of the whole group seems stationary - not moving.

Apologies, I'm out.

[WilliamL]

On 4/23/2020 at 10:18 AM, Revelation Man said:

On 4/22/2020 at 1:11 PM, WilliamL said:

Correct, the "GATHERING TO Christ Jesus is SEEN in the very first verse." And the context is that that gathering to Jesus, "the Day of Christ (2:2)," shall not come until the apostasia takes place. If you translate apostasia to mean the departing in the Rapture, then you are saying that "the departing to Jesus shall not come until the Gathering to Jesus comes." Which would be a pretty nonsensical statement for Paul to make.

You are in error again on this subject. The Day of the Lord can not come upon the Thessalonians UNTIL the Departure/Gathering/Rapture happens. Paul then basically says, EVEN the Anti-Christ comes BEFORE the Day of the Lord which is a 3.5 year period of God's Wrath.

And so you once again, as is so common among pre-tribbers, ignore the testimony of the Word when it does not meet your beliefs.

The simple meaning of 2 Thes. 2:1-3 is that the Parousia of the Lord, the Day of Christ, will not come until the apostasia AND the revelation of the Son of Perdition comes first. That is Paul's testimony, twist it though you may.

[Revelation Man]

10 hours ago, WilliamL said:

And so you once again, as is so common among pre-tribbers, ignore the testimony of the Word when it does not meet your beliefs.

The simple meaning of 2 Thes. 2:1-3 is that the Parousia of the Lord, the Day of Christ, will not come until the apostasia AND the revelation of the Son of Perdition comes first. That is Paul's testimony, twist it though you may.

You don't understand it, that's the problem. 

[BlessedCreator]

I think he understands it perfectly well. This doctrine is easy to understand. 

[The Light]

On 4/28/2020 at 4:55 AM, Diaste said:

2 Thess 2:1-8 tells us Jesus coming and the rapture comes after the man of sin is revealed.

And with that, I'm off this merry-go-round.

Good day.

 

Remember what you said about the absence of evidence. So allow me to make a repair to your statement.

2 Thess 2:1-8 tells us Jesus coming and the A rapture comes after the man of sin is revealed.

[The Light]

21 hours ago, WilliamL said:

And so you once again, as is so common among pre-tribbers, ignore the testimony of the Word when it does not meet your beliefs.

The simple meaning of 2 Thes. 2:1-3 is that the Parousia of the Lord, the Day of Christ, will not come until the apostasia AND the revelation of the Son of Perdition comes first. That is Paul's testimony, twist it though you may.

I agree with your assessment of 2 Thes 2. There will be a rapture before the Day of the Lord begins. Paul tells us clearly that the gathering occurs before the Day of the Lord. There will be a gathering from heaven and earth.

Mark 13

²⁷ And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

The 12 tribes across the earth will be gathered from the earth. The Church will be gathered from heaven where they they will be attending the  7 year marriage supper before the seals are  opened. That's why we see the Church in heaven in Rev 5.

So even if those who believe that there will be a pretribulation rapture are pretty much wrong about everything, they are not wrong about there being a pretribulation rapture.

[Diaste]

19 minutes ago, The Light said:

Remember what you said about the absence of evidence. So allow me to make a repair to your statement.

2 Thess 2:1-8 tells us Jesus coming and the A rapture comes after the man of sin is revealed.

"...by the coming of our Lord Jesus and our gathering together to Him..." is what's written. That would be THE gathering. 

[The Light]

1 hour ago, Diaste said:

"...by the coming of our Lord Jesus and our gathering together to Him..." is what's written. That would be THE gathering. 

Totally agree brother. But it does not say it is the only coming of Jesus.

One of the days of the Son of Man will be like the days of Noah and one of the days of the Son of Man will be like the days of Lot. At the gathering before the Day of the Lord it will be like the days of Lot, where the very day Lot left Sodom destruction came.

In one coming the Lord himself will come. In another coming He will send His angels.

In one coming He comes at the Trump of God and in another coming He comes at the Last Trump

One coming will be a secret coming where the Goodman will not know when He will come. Another coming all eyes will see the coming of the Lord and that day will not take the believers unaware.

One coming will be the early summer grain harvest and coming will be the fall fruit harvest.

One coming will fulfill the harvest of Pentecost and one coming will fulfill the harvest at the Feast of Trumpets

One coming will be the Breba crop of the fig tree and one coming will be the main harvest of fig tree.

One coming He will come for His bride, those that have oil, for the 7 day wedding feast and one coming He will rush out to welcome the prodigal son, the younger son who was lost and is now found and kill the fatted calf.

One coming He will come for the Gentiles and one coming He will come for the 12 tribes that have their blindness removed after the fullness of the Gentiles comes in.

One coming He comes before the tribulation, the 70th week of Daniel and one coming He comes before wrath, the Day of the Lord.

Edited May 1, 2020 by The Light