Mary Was Just A Woman

[Assisi]

Why do you have to go to a shrine to be healed then? And not all healings come from G-d, remember Job?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ho sure i remember Job.

JOB 33:21 His flesh wastes away to nothing, and his bones, once hidden, now stick out. JOB 33:22 His soul draws near to the pit, and his life to the messengers of death. JOB 33:23 "Yet if there is an angel on his side as a mediator, one out of a thousand, to tell a man what is right for him, JOB 33:24 to be gracious to him and say, Spare him from going down to the pit; I have found a ransom for him'-- JOB 33:25 then his flesh is renewed like a child's; it is restored as in the days of his youth . JOB 33:26 He prays to God and finds favor with him, he sees God's face and shouts for joy, he is restored by God to his righteous state.

Here we have an example of an Angel acting as a mediator for a man who is about to die from sickness and sin and yet by the Angels mediation the man is restored to his health and his righteous state. By virtue of the Angels persuading intercessory prayer to God to have mercy on the man, the man was spared death. Contrast this to Jeremiah:

JER 15:1 Then the LORD said to me: "Even if Moses and Samuel were to stand before me, my heart would not go out to this people. Send them away from my presence! Let them go!

Here we have God being very angry at Israel because of idolatry and God says that even if Moses and Samuel were to make intercession before his very throne he would not grant their request. Now this example is in the negative but it clearly shows that departed saints go before the very throne of God and make intercessory prayer for those of us on earth.

[Guest Zayit]

"Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. By their fruit you will recognize them.

[Assisi]

"Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. By their fruit you will recognize them.

[Guest shiloh357]

JER 15:1 Then the LORD said to me: "Even if Moses and Samuel were to stand before me, my heart would not go out to this people. Send them away from my presence! Let them go!

Here we have God being very angry at Israel because of idolatry and God says that even if Moses and Samuel were to make intercession before his very throne he would not grant their request. Now this example is in the negative but it clearly shows that departed saints go before the very throne of God and make intercessory prayer for those of us on earth.

No, it does not demonstrate anything of the kind.

In the preceding chapter, Jeremiah was interceding for Israel even though God said not to. God was indeed angry with Israel, and even though He told Jeremiah not to intercede for Israel in 14:11, Jeremiah still calls for God's mercy upon His people.

God responds that intercession on behalf of Israel was futile. It was too little, too late. God was saying that even if Moses or Elijah had been alive at that time and interceding, it would have done no good. God was not saying that Moses and Elijah WERE interceding in Heaven at that time.

JOB 33:21 His flesh wastes away to nothing, and his bones, once hidden, now stick out. JOB 33:22 His soul draws near to the pit, and his life to the messengers of death. JOB 33:23 "Yet if there is an angel on his side as a mediator, one out of a thousand, to tell a man what is right for him, JOB 33:24 to be gracious to him and say, Spare him from going down to the pit; I have found a ransom for him'-- JOB 33:25 then his flesh is renewed like a child's; it is restored as in the days of his youth . JOB 33:26 He prays to God and finds favor with him, he sees God's face and shouts for joy, he is restored by God to his righteous state.

Here we have an example of an Angel acting as a mediator for a man who is about to die from sickness and sin and yet by the Angels mediation the man is restored to his health and his righteous state. By virtue of the Angels persuading intercessory prayer to God to have mercy on the man, the man was spared death.

Angels do not mediate on man's behalf. To assert such, is heresy. "Angel" may the be vulgate's translation of messenger, but it is not a created angel that Elihu has in mind, but rather Himself as the "messenger" sent by God to be the "interpreter", not mediator. Elihu saw himself as the messenger sent to Job to uphold God's righteousness.

The one said to be praying to God in verse 26, is the man who was sick. This passage has nothing to do with angels or anyone else "praying" or interceding for anyone.

[Assisi]

JER 15:1 Then the LORD said to me: "Even if Moses and Samuel were to stand before me, my heart would not go out to this people. Send them away from my presence! Let them go!

Here we have God being very angry at Israel because of idolatry and God says that even if Moses and Samuel were to make intercession before his very throne he would not grant their request. Now this example is in the negative but it clearly shows that departed saints go before the very throne of God and make intercessory prayer for those of us on earth.

No, it does not demonstrate anything of the kind.

In the preceding chapter, Jeremiah was interceding for Israel even though God said not to. God was indeed angry with Israel, and even though He told Jeremiah not to intercede for Israel in 14:11, Jeremiah still calls for God's mercy upon His people.

God responds that intercession on behalf of Israel was futile. It was too little, too late. God was saying that even if Moses or Elijah had been alive at that time and interceding, it would have done no good. God was not saying that Moses and Elijah WERE interceding in Heaven at that time.

JOB 33:21 His flesh wastes away to nothing, and his bones, once hidden, now stick out. JOB 33:22 His soul draws near to the pit, and his life to the messengers of death. JOB 33:23 "Yet if there is an angel on his side as a mediator, one out of a thousand, to tell a man what is right for him, JOB 33:24 to be gracious to him and say, Spare him from going down to the pit; I have found a ransom for him'-- JOB 33:25 then his flesh is renewed like a child's; it is restored as in the days of his youth . JOB 33:26 He prays to God and finds favor with him, he sees God's face and shouts for joy, he is restored by God to his righteous state.

Here we have an example of an Angel acting as a mediator for a man who is about to die from sickness and sin and yet by the Angels mediation the man is restored to his health and his righteous state. By virtue of the Angels persuading intercessory prayer to God to have mercy on the man, the man was spared death.

Angels do not mediate on man's behalf. To assert such, is heresy. "Angel" may the be vulgate's translation of messenger, but it is not a created angel that Elihu has in mind, but rather Himself as the "messenger" sent by God to be the "interpreter", not mediator. Elihu saw himself as the messenger sent to Job to uphold God's righteousness.

The one said to be praying to God in verse 26, is the man who was sick. This passage has nothing to do with angels or anyone else "praying" or interceding for anyone.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Jesus said glorified Saints will be like the Angels in Heaven and Angels are ministering spirits to those of us on earth!

HEB 1:14

[ayin jade]

Jesus said glorified Saints will be like the Angels in Heaven and Angels are ministering spirits to those of us on earth!

HEB 1:14 

[Guest shiloh357]

Jesus said glorified Saints will be like the Angels in Heaven and Angels are ministering spirits to those of us on earth!

HEB 1:14

[Assisi]

Assisi

Only the church of Rome exhibited the Petrine ministry to preserve unity and orthodoxy within the universal Church. And that was because its bishop was the direct and immediate successor of Peter.

I must say, with all due respect to our RC friend that his comments are quite erroneous. Even a cursory examination of the historical evidence reveals a great gulf between the Christian church we read of in the New Testament, and that of the RCC today.

Catholics refer to the pope as

[Assisi]

Jesus said glorified Saints will be like the Angels in Heaven and Angels are ministering spirits to those of us on earth!

HEB 1:14

[Matthitjah]

Grace to you,

Did Abraham pray to the virgin?

I sincerely want to know? Did she intercede for the Friend of God?

Peace,

Dave