Rapture 2020: The Feast of Trumpets

[RAPTURE2024]

Rapture and End Times

Why did you make such a long  Name ???

The Wrath of God contains Fire and Brimstone possibly occuring when  Nibiru , a Large Iron Planet passes by and  draws the Earth down toward the planet Venus and passes through  some Meteors as well as causing the Earths inner  Molten Iron Core to Slosh about and create massive Volcanoes and Great Earthquakes. 

Isa 13:13  Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place,

in the wrath of the LORD and in the day of his fierce anger.

Re 14:10  The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
 

[iamlamad]

On 5/20/2020 at 12:25 PM, RonaldBruno said:

The "mystery of God" scripture is about Jesus, the consummation of our redemption, that we will be like him, see Him face to face. This mystery confounded the Jews who were blinded. Their blindness will also be lifted and thus upon our rapture, the mystery of God will be revealed. 

The sound of the 7th Trumpet releases the 7 Bowls. "... Your wrath has come" Rev. 11:18. " Then one of the four living creatures gave to the seven angels seven golden bowls full of the wrath of God ..." Rev. 15:7

That is the Pre-Trib view. Revelation is not in chronological order. The trumpets and bowls fall within the seals. God shows us different vantage points, goes back and forth, as in a multi-dimensional, transparent sphere of events is turned seeing different events inside in relation to each other.

The point was we are not exempt from tribulation, great or small, just wrath. But hey, I would prefer the Pre-Trib view, I just don't believe it. I'm more of a Mid-Trib/Pre-Wrath viewer. And so since we differ in views, it's like an insurmountable wall - not worth scaling.

The "mystery of God" scripture is about Jesus, the consummation of our redemption, that we will be like him, see Him face to face. This mystery confounded the Jews who were blinded. Their blindness will also be lifted and thus upon our rapture, the mystery of God will be revealed. 

  Sorry, but it is no longer a mystery. the moment John wrote of what really happened at the 7th trumpet, it no longer was a mystery. The mystery was about Satan being the God of this world and they LOSING that position: the kingdom of the world taken from Satan and given to Jesus Christ. More that this the fact, is WHY at that time this could happen. I believe the mystery is that Adam was given a 6000 year lease. The book with 7 seals is the lease document and what must happen to get to the place where Satan could be dethroned. I believe the 6000 year lease ends when the 7th trumpet sounds. The mystery of God in the Gentiles (Christ IN US) is a different mystery. 

 

The sound of the 7th Trumpet releases the 7 Bowls. "... Your wrath has come" Rev. 11:18. " Then one of the four living creatures gave to the seven angels seven golden bowls full of the wrath of God ..." Rev. 15:7

I would not have said it that way. There will be some time between the 7th trumpet and the bowls. It IS true that the 7th trumpet will come before the bowls. But to say the 7th trumpet "releases?" I don't think so. 

"Your wrath is come" is an English translation of a Greek Aorist tense verb. This particular verb is in the indicative mood, which means an event started in the past.  In other words, God's wrath started PREVIOUS to this point. All John is saying is, God's wrath is present now, at this time. 

All the events of chapters 14 and 15 come before the bowls are poured out to "shorten" those days of GT.

 

That is the Pre-Trib view. Revelation is not in chronological order. The trumpets and bowls fall within the seals. God shows us different vantage points, goes back and forth, as in a multi-dimensional, transparent sphere of events is turned seeing different events inside in relation to each other.

Indeed, it is the pretrib view and it is the BIBLE view. WHO SAID Revelation is not in chronological order? You? I would rather believe John. OF COURSE it is in the right order: it was a vision given by God to REVEAL, not to hide. 

The trumpets and bowls fall within the seals.  Sorry, MYTH. Do you not understand, the book with seals was written WITHIN? That means, the seals were only there to prevent anyone unauthorized from opening the book to read (and bring to pass) what was written inside the book.  John WHAT is written inside the book? I think John gives us a strong hint that AT LEAST the trumpet judgements are written inside the book - so once all seals are opened, then the book is opened to reveal the trumpets that will end up getting Satan DETHRONED.  This is the way John wrote it. It is at the 7th seal that the 7 angels get their 7 trumpets. It is therefore IMPOSSIBLE that any trumpet can be sounded at any seal. That idea is not only impossible, it is myth.  God shows us different vantage points, goes back and forth, as in a multi-dimensional, transparent sphere of events is turned seeing different events inside in relation to each other.  

This is your theory, but I am sticking with John. I think things are going to happen in the same exact order John wrote them. Perhaps in another thread you could give us scripture as to why you think Revelation is not written in order?

The point was we are not exempt from tribulation, great or small, just wrath. But hey, I would prefer the Pre-Trib view, I just don't believe it. I'm more of a Mid-Trib/Pre-Wrath viewer. And so since we differ in views, it's like an insurmountable wall - not worth scaling.

Now this I can agree with: Satan hated Jesus so he hates us.  Sorry, but prewrath theory sounds right, as in we are not here for His wrath, but that is about the only thing I have every found in Prewrath theory that agrees with the bible. It all started on a false premise - that the signs after "the tribulation of those days" are the same signs (come at the same time) as the signs at the 6th seal. The truth is, the signs are different, are for a different purpose, and will come over 7 years apart.  

It is not an insurmountable wall. Good, honest bible study can tear walls down. 

[RonaldBruno]

On 5/28/2020 at 11:51 AM, iamlamad said:

 

  Sorry, but it is no longer a mystery. the moment John wrote of what really happened at the 7th trumpet, it no longer was a mystery. The mystery was about Satan being the God of this world and they LOSING that position: the kingdom of the world taken from Satan and given to Jesus Christ. More that this the fact, is WHY at that time this could happen. I believe the mystery is that Adam was given a 6000 year lease. The book with 7 seals is the lease document and what must happen to get to the place where Satan could be dethroned. I believe the 6000 year lease ends when the 7th trumpet sounds. The mystery of God in the Gentiles (Christ IN US) is a different mystery. 

 

 

 

I would not have said it that way. There will be some time between the 7th trumpet and the bowls. It IS true that the 7th trumpet will come before the bowls. But to say the 7th trumpet "releases?" I don't think so. 

"Your wrath is come" is an English translation of a Greek Aorist tense verb. This particular verb is in the indicative mood, which means an event started in the past.  In other words, God's wrath started PREVIOUS to this point. All John is saying is, God's wrath is present now, at this time. 

All the events of chapters 14 and 15 come before the bowls are poured out to "shorten" those days of GT.

 

 

 

Indeed, it is the pretrib view and it is the BIBLE view. WHO SAID Revelation is not in chronological order? You? I would rather believe John. OF COURSE it is in the right order: it was a vision given by God to REVEAL, not to hide. 

The trumpets and bowls fall within the seals.  Sorry, MYTH. Do you not understand, the book with seals was written WITHIN? That means, the seals were only there to prevent anyone unauthorized from opening the book to read (and bring to pass) what was written inside the book.  John WHAT is written inside the book? I think John gives us a strong hint that AT LEAST the trumpet judgements are written inside the book - so once all seals are opened, then the book is opened to reveal the trumpets that will end up getting Satan DETHRONED.  This is the way John wrote it. It is at the 7th seal that the 7 angels get their 7 trumpets. It is therefore IMPOSSIBLE that any trumpet can be sounded at any seal. That idea is not only impossible, it is myth.  God shows us different vantage points, goes back and forth, as in a multi-dimensional, transparent sphere of events is turned seeing different events inside in relation to each other.  

This is your theory, but I am sticking with John. I think things are going to happen in the same exact order John wrote them. Perhaps in another thread you could give us scripture as to why you think Revelation is not written in order?

 

Now this I can agree with: Satan hated Jesus so he hates us.  Sorry, but prewrath theory sounds right, as in we are not here for His wrath, but that is about the only thing I have every found in Prewrath theory that agrees with the bible. It all started on a false premise - that the signs after "the tribulation of those days" are the same signs (come at the same time) as the signs at the 6th seal. The truth is, the signs are different, are for a different purpose, and will come over 7 years apart.  

It is not an insurmountable wall. Good, honest bible study can tear walls down. 

Revelations 10:7

"But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets."

Ephesians 3:9

"And to make all [men] see what [is] the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ."

Corinthians-1 15:51

"Behold, I show you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,"  

You seem to believe the Great mystery that has been hidden since the beginning is something evil.

The mystery will be fully revealed at the last trumpet, which is the resurrection. The full knowledge of Christ, we will see Him face to face and we will be like him. We will see heaven, we will experience our new eternal bodies.  

 

[iamlamad]

4 hours ago, RonaldBruno said:

Revelations 10:7

"But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets."

Ephesians 3:9

"And to make all [men] see what [is] the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ."

Corinthians-1 15:51

"Behold, I show you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,"  

You seem to believe the Great mystery that has been hidden since the beginning is something evil.

The mystery will be fully revealed at the last trumpet, which is the resurrection. The full knowledge of Christ, we will see Him face to face and we will be like him. We will see heaven, we will experience our new eternal bodies.  

There are different "mysteries" in the New Testament, but each scripture tells us what that mystery was as it was revealed. They are no longer mysteries. As each was revealed, it was then no longer a mystery. Paul's mysteries were revealed during His early ministry: maybe around 45 to 55 AD. From that time on they were no longer mysteries, for Paul had revealed them. 

this Revelation mystery was a mystery still in 95 AD until John revealed what it was. It was a mystery in 95 AD, but today is not. It has been revealed.

How can Satan losing and Jesus wining be evil?  Why try to ad lib some kind of mystery when John TELLS US what will happen at the 7th trumpet: the kingdoms of the world will be stripped from Satan and given to Jesus Christ - the RIGHTFUL owner. 

Please show us even ONE WORD in Rev. 11 that would give one a hint there is a resurrection here. John wrote, "the time of the dead that they should be judged: but that is a prophecy for the future of that time given by the 24 elders.

Sorry, NO resurrection at the 7th trumpet: all we read is a transfer of power from Satan to Jesus Christ.  Note carefully that this is only a LEGAL transaction in heaven: Jesus does not take physical possession until Rev. 19.

Go back and study 1 thes. 4 & 5 for the timing of the rapture. It is JUST before the start of wrath.

[RonaldBruno]

14 hours ago, iamlamad said:

They are no longer mysteries. As each was revealed, it was then no longer a mystery

Oh so you have seen Jesus face to face, spoken with Him, know what your eternal body will be like (an extra-demensional body) in an eternal heaven without sin. So this mystery has been revealed to you?

You're special. I guess I will just have to wait for that last trumpet. 

[iamlamad]

5 hours ago, RonaldBruno said:

Oh so you have seen Jesus face to face, spoken with Him, know what your eternal body will be like (an extra-demensional body) in an eternal heaven without sin. So this mystery has been revealed to you?

You're special. I guess I will just have to wait for that last trumpet. 

Why don't we actually READ instead of guess on a mystery:

Romans 11:25

For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

 

This mystery is spelled out for us: blindness has happened to Israel while God waits for the fullness of the Gentiles. 

Romans 16

²⁵ Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

²⁶ But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

This mystery is not spelled out so plainly: But it is here: Paul's gospel: salvation by Paul's "gospel" which we know is salvation by and through the death, burial and resurrection of Our Lord. Added to Paul's gospel was the preaching of Jesus. These things were secret until revealed by Jesus and by Paul. 

 

1 Cor. 2:

⁷ But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

⁸ Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

This "mystery" is the very wisdom of God: A plan to sacrifice Himself. Satan thought if Jesus died, that would be the end of it. WRONG! That was God's plan all along: The life of Jesus sowed so that God could harvest untold BILLIONS. 

 

1 Corinthians 15:51

Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

 

This too was a mystery until God revealed it to Paul and Paul to us: at the resurrection of the Just, those who are alive and just will be raised up and instantly changed. 

 

Before Paul knew this, NO ONE knew what would happen to those who loved God and was alive at the time of the resurrection.  All they knew was that those dead would rise. 

 

Ephesians 1:9

Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself: ¹⁰ That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him: ¹ In whom also we have obtained an inheritance,...

 

This mystery too is spelled out: God is going to gather all things in CHRIST:  We all, both those who have already died and those still alive will have an inheritance: we already know we will be joint heirs with Christ: what He gets WE get. 

 

Ephesians 3:3

How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,

 

⁶ That the Gentiles should be fellow heirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

 

This is no longer a mystery: we all know now that the Gentiles will be fellow heirs with the righteous Jews: grafted into the same tree.

 

Ephesians 3:4 

⁴ Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

⁵ Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

⁶ That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

⁷ Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.

⁸ Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;

⁹ And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

¹⁰ To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,

Again, the mystery that the Gentiles too would share in the same blessings of the righteous Jews.  But now added to that the mystery that THE CHURCH is to teach this manifold wisdom of God TO THE DEVILS! 

 

Ephesians 5:32

This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

 

I will let you decipher this mystery. 

 

Ephesians 6:19

And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel,

 

Paul's gospel was a mystery until it was revealed.

 

Colossians 1:26

Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:

27  To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

 

This mystery is that we get Christ INSIDE of us!

 

Colossians 2:2

That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ;

 

Again I will let you decipher this one.

 

Then there is the "Mystery of Christ," the "Mystery of iniquity," The "mystery of Faith," and the "mystery of Godliness."

 

NONE of these mysteries is the mystery of Satan losing the world and it being given back to Jesus Christ.

 

Therefore, when you see the word "mystery," DON'T GUESS on what it is. Research.

[RonaldBruno]

The mystery of God was revealed, the mystery of His plan, His sacrifice, blinding Isarel so that we may be saved, but only in part. We see dimly now but when He comes and we are changed we will see fully. The whole relationship with God, the knowledge of God is known dimly, but when our Ressurection comes, it be will clear. The consummation of His plan for us is not complete yet, but will be at the last trumpet. 

This dual nature of flesh and spirit is what prevents us from knowing the fullness of God and understanding fully what we will be like.  

Showing us a mystery, doesn't mean it's fully grasped. Even Jesus said that His intention when He came the first time was not that we would fully grasp that He was God.

 1 Corinthians 13:12, ESV: "For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known."

 

"who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped," Phil. 2:6

Man is still trying to grasp that concept.

Edited May 31, 2020 by RonaldBruno
Scriptures added