Grace and Law in OT vs Grace in NT?

[Desopixi Seilynam]

"Moreover brethren, I would not have you ignorant how that all our fathers [Isaiah 51:1-2, 56:7-8] were under the cloud and all passed through the sea...

But with many of them God was not pleased.... [Numbers 14:29, 37, 26:65]

Now these things became our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted."  1 Corinthians 10:1-13.

 

"For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared unto all teaching us that denying ungodliness and worldly lusts,

we should live soberly righteously and godly in this present age." Titus 2:11-12

 

"For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision avails anything nor un-circumcision, but faith that demonstrates itself by love." 

Because what Christ taught is love; Luke 6:27-49. 

The words that Christ spoke are the most direct words from the Holy Spirit of God because Christ was born directly of the Spirit. Luke 1:35, John 6:63

Therefore being led by the Spirit is being led by the words that Christ spoke.  

It is Christ who said that the whole law is love; Matthew 7:12, it should be clear that Paul is backing up the sermon on the mount,

not contradicting it; Galatians 5:14-24.

 

"For with the heart man believes unto righteousness" Romans 10:10

"For faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God." Romans 10:17

And the most direct words from God came out of the mouth of Christ. He is the Messiah; the Messenger of God.

 

The will of the Father is that we hearken to the Messiah; Deuteronomy 18:18-19.

"Not every one that says to me Lord Lord shall enter into the kingdom of heaven, but he that does the will of my Father which is in heaven"

"Therefore.. every one that hears these sayings of mine and does not put them into practice is like a fool that built his house upon the sand..." Matthew 7:21-28 2 John 1:9-10.

 

[LonerAndy]

On 5/24/2020 at 7:33 AM, Open7 said:

I really need some help with a topic here. I am trying to understand how grace and law work in the Old Testament in comparison to grace in the New Testament. Here is my question:

Jesus death atoned for sins pre and post his death, therefore all people are saved through Jesus. Then why in the Old Testament were people punishable by death from breaking certain laws and Israel punished by God for turning away from him, but in the New Testament there is no condemnation for this? I know in the ot they were under law, but still, why didn’t Jesus death also cover them in their life’s like we do in nt times?

Could it be that God wanted us to have a comparison of pre and post Jesus to show us what would happen if we were condemned for our sin rather than having no condemnation in nt, therefore highlighting why it is good good news. Because if there was no condemnation in the old as well as the new, it would mean that we could never see throughout history the difference that Jesus really made.

really need help with this it’s frustrating me a bit. Does what I am saying make sense?

Thanks

Just to be honest, I don't see that G-d and Jesus was any different between the old and new testament.

Now in the Torah, G-d directly punished his people, such as bringing snakes into the camp.  But he also had grace and mercy on people at the same time, such as having the golden snake on a staff, and anyone who looked at it, would be healed.

So G-d all the way back in the book of Numbers, had both punishment, and grace.

However, lets look at the prophets.  Typically, the prophets didn't go around smiting people.  Generally speaking.   We know that the King sent his men to arrest Elijah, and that kind of went just a tad poorly for those men, involving fire and burning and ashes.

But most prophets simply warned of impending doom. 

The classic example is Jeremiah.   Jeremiah warned over and over, turn away from your sins, and G-d will be merciful to you.  But if not, then doom.

Again, punishment and mercy.

Jesus came in the spot of a prophet.  Now he was obviously more than a prophet, but he came in that place, and he acted like a prophet.   He warned of doom, and appealed to people to turn away from their sins.

Same thing as the old testament prophets, and the same punishment and mercy of G-d in the Torah.

Luke 19:43

"The days will come upon you when your enemies will build an embankment against you and encircle you and hem you in on every side. They will dash you to the ground, you and the children within your walls. They will not leave one stone on another, because you did not recognize the time of God's coming to you." - Jesus
 

Jesus prophesied death and doom to the people of Israel, just like the prophets of the old testament.  Just like Moses in the Israelite camp.

Turn away from your sin.  Repent, and come back to the Lord. 

And if you read about the siege of Jerusalem, everything that Jesus said would happen, happened exactly as he said.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Jerusalem_(70_CE)

Don't normally link to wiki, but this is good enough for a simple understanding.

So in conclusion....

There is no difference between Jesus of the New Testament, and the prophets of the Old Testament, as it refers to judgement and mercy.  Obviously Jesus was G-d himself, but specifically as it relates to punishment and grace, no difference.

G-d has been the same today, yesterday, last year, last 100 years, and the last 6,000 years.  No difference.  He might judge people differently, he may use others to punish instead of doing it directly, he might even wait 10 or 15 years to bring about that judgement... but he still judges, and he still gives grace and mercy to those who repent.

Did that answer your questions?  Or maybe there was something else you were trying to ask?

Hope that helped.

Edited May 27, 2020 by LonerAndy

[Prycejosh1987]

On 5/24/2020 at 12:33 PM, Open7 said:

I really need some help with a topic here. I am trying to understand how grace and law work in the Old Testament in comparison to grace in the New Testament. Here is my question:

Jesus death atoned for sins pre and post his death, therefore all people are saved through Jesus. Then why in the Old Testament were people punishable by death from breaking certain laws and Israel punished by God for turning away from him, but in the New Testament there is no condemnation for this? I know in the ot they were under law, but still, why didn’t Jesus death also cover them in their life’s like we do in nt times?

Could it be that God wanted us to have a comparison of pre and post Jesus to show us what would happen if we were condemned for our sin rather than having no condemnation in nt, therefore highlighting why it is good good news. Because if there was no condemnation in the old as well as the new, it would mean that we could never see throughout history the difference that Jesus really made.

 

really need help with this it’s frustrating me a bit. Does what I am saying make sense?

 

Thanks

They are one and the same. Its like saying God just punishes but Jesus shows mercy, punishment and mercy are in both the old and the new testament. I do believe that the books complement each other in the fact that they keep the same message throughout. But digging and serious study is needed. I didnt get it myself until years later with spiritual growth.