How many resurrections are there?

[Sister]

15 hours ago, TMarcum said:

If you took time to study the bible rather than just skimming over it, so you can pick out portions and say, "this is pertaining to the 1000 year MK. Then you would see clearly that the passage was referring to the church of Christ, Jesus being the chief cornerstone.

 

It has nothing at all to do with a 1000 years after the 2nd coming of Christ. Don't just take my word for it, take Peter's, where he made reference to the prophecy of Isaiah 28. 

1 Peter 2:6
6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.
7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner, 
8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed. 
9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

Isaiah 28
12 To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.
13 But the word of the Lord was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.
14 Wherefore hear the word of the Lord, ye scornful men, that rule this people which is in Jerusalem.
15 Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:
16 Therefore thus saith the Lord God, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste.

 

TMarcum

A little here and a little there.  The truth is spread out throughout the scriptures.  Snippets of a certain time that is coming.  God spoke through his prophets thousands of years ago and his Word is still living, it never returns back to him void.

Sometimes the seed planted doesn't sprout straight away, but can take some time.  Take your time, and digest for a while. There's no rush. Meditate on these scriptures.  It's not a fight on who knows more.

Most of these scriptures I gave show the time frame of Christ's return.  They show what follows.  There are nations still about, and dominions.  Not everyone is killed at the Coming, but only the very wicked.  You cannot start a new era with rapists, murderers and thieves still about.  There are many people that don't know Christ, because of circumstances, and many who were born into a different religion.  God see's through all that.  They don't get a place in the 1st resurrection, but some get a second chance.  You see not every HINDU, or BODHIST, MUSLIM, or atheist etc is of a wicked heart.  Many would help a stranger, or give to someone in need.  Many don't lie, or cheat, or steal someone else's wife, and many do not have HATE in their hearts for anyone.  Many of them are humble and don't rise up with pride.  Some have been so oppressed by their cultures, because the devil never let these prisoners go, and God saved them for this time, because more generations have to be born.

You can't paint all people  with the same brush.  This is why there is a refreshing coming.  They will witness Christ, that he is the one.  Christ sees something in all these survivors (remnants) that they can conform their hearts if given a chance to learn the truth.  In turn they will multiply and teach their children and tell them about the old wicked world compared to the new one, and they will speak from experience. 

It's no point in arguing any longer.  I will leave it with one more scripture, in the next post.

 

[Sister]

  Daniel 7:11   I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.

  Daniel 7:12   As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.

  Daniel 7:13   I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.

  Daniel 7:14   And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.

[iamlamad]

14 hours ago, TMarcum said:

I do expect that he could come tonight, and not that the church will be secretly raptured away.

Jesus gave us signs to look for his coming. When we see then, we will know it's time to come home. At that time, he will deliver his kingdom to God "for eternity", and not just to spend another 1000 year here on this earth.

What do you do with John 14? Many people have been to heaven and got prayed back to their bodies - and while there in heaven have SEEN the mansions, and a few have seen their OWN mansion. 

Many people have seen the preparations for the marriage supper: tables spread along the river of life as far as the eye could see. Others saw preparations going on, while later people were told all the preparations are finished: heaven is now just waiting for the arrival of the saints - the Bride of Christ. 

In other words, when I study end times scriptures, I see TWO more comings very clearly laid out: first a coming FOR the saints, then 7 years later a coming WITH the saints.  I can easily see why so many millions believe as I do, or I believe as they do. 

Someone on a thread once day that pretrib was very much only a USA theory. I immediately went to another website: Interpals, and found 50 people in various nations in Africa that were Christian, and asked them if they thought the rapture would be pretrib - and why. All answered: 49 were pretrib and their answer was: it is scripture. One was not pretrib. So much for pretrib being only a US of A theory. 

Another thing I will not do, is take a verse that makes good sense in a literal sense and imagining it is symbolic.  Anyone can make Revelation say most anything doing that. Well, I guess that is exactly where the world is now. 

[iamlamad]

5 hours ago, Sister said:

  Daniel 7:11   I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.

  Daniel 7:12   As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.

  Daniel 7:13   I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.

  Daniel 7:14   And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.

7:11  (Not the store)  WHEN? In Revelation sometime in the last part of Rev. 19.

7:12  WHEN? Same time as 7:11

7:13  WHEN? Some time in Rev. 20: before the start of the Millennial kingdom.

7:14  WHEN?  THE Millennial kingdom. 

[iamlamad]

22 hours ago, Sister said:

Joel 2:30   And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke.

Joel 2:31   The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.

Joel 2:32   And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.

 

 

Revelation 21:24   And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.

Revelation 21:25   And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.

Revelation 21:26   And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it.

Revelation 21:27   And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

Rev. 21:  WHEN? This is after the great white throne judgment and on the NEW heaven and earth. What a "day" that will be!

[iamlamad]

10 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, TMarcum.

"To come home" does NOT mean "go to heaven!" And, Yeshua` will NOT "deliver His Kingdom to God" at His return! That's hard to do since He doesn't yet HAVE His Kingdom! Listen closely to Yeshua`s words:

Luke 19:11-27 (KJV)

11 And as they heard these things, he added and spake a parable, because he was nigh to Jerusalem, and because they thought that the kingdom of God should immediately appear. 12 He said therefore,

"A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return. 
13 And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them,

"'Occupy till I come.'

14 "But his citizens hated him, and sent a message after him, saying,

"'We will not have this man to reign over us!' 

15 "And it came to pass, that WHEN HE WAS RETURNED, HAVING RECEIVED THE KINGDOM, THEN HE COMMANDED these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading. 16 Then came the first, saying,

"'Lord, thy pound hath gained ten pounds.' 

17 "And he said unto him, "

'Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities!'

18 "And the second came, saying,

"'Lord, thy pound hath gained five pounds.'

19 "And he said likewise to him,

"'Be thou also over five cities!'

20 "And another came, saying,

"'Lord, behold, here is thy pound, which I have kept laid up in a napkin: 21 For I feared thee, because thou art an austere man: thou takest up that thou layedst not down, and reapest that thou didst not sow.'

22 "And he saith unto him,

"'Out of thine own mouth will I judge thee, thou wicked servant! Thou KNEWEST that I was an austere man, taking up that I laid not down, and reaping that I did not sow: 23 Wherefore then gavest not thou my money into the bank, that at my coming I might have required mine own with usury?'

24 "And he said unto them that stood by,

"'Take from him the pound, and give it to him that hath ten pounds!'

25 "(And they said unto him,

"'Lord, he hath ten pounds!') 

26 "'For I say unto you, That unto every one which hath shall be given; and from him that hath not, even that he hath shall be taken away from him. 27 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me!'"

This is YESHUA` ("JESUS") we're talking about!

Also,

Matthew 25:31-46 (KJV)

31 "WHEN THE SON OF MAN SHALL COME IN HIS GLORY, AND ALL THE HOLY ANGELS WITH HIM, THEN SHALL HE SIT UPON THE THRONE OF HIS GLORY (BRIGHTNESS; FAME): 32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: 33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

34 "Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand,

"'Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: 36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.'

37 "Then shall the righteous answer him, saying,

"'Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? 38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? 39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?'

40 "And the King shall answer and say unto them,

"'Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.'

41 "Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand,

"'Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: 42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: 43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not!' 

44 "Then shall they also answer him, saying,

"'Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?' 

45 "Then shall he answer them, saying,

"'Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.'

46 "And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal."

It's not until He returns that His Kingdom begins! Not in som "Heaven," by the way, but ON EARTH, where He left His disciples to "occupy until He comes" and where all the nations can be gathered before Him and sorted as sheep or goats!

This is all true: but it is also truth that the Bride of Christ will wait out the time of wrath on earth - IN HEAVEN.  We can't or shouldn't ignore one truth while teaching another. John 14 makes this clear, as well as Revelation 7 and Revelation 19. 

[TMarcum]

14 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, TMarcum.

"To come home" does NOT mean "go to heaven!" And, Yeshua` will NOT "deliver His Kingdom to God" at His return! That's hard to do since He doesn't yet HAVE His Kingdom! Listen closely to Yeshua`s words:

Luke 19:11-27 (KJV)

11 And as they heard these things, he added and spake a parable, because he was nigh to Jerusalem, and because they thought that the kingdom of God should immediately appear. 12 He said therefore,

"A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return. 
13 And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them,

"'Occupy till I come.'

14 "But his citizens hated him, and sent a message after him, saying,

"'We will not have this man to reign over us!' 

15 "And it came to pass, that WHEN HE WAS RETURNED, HAVING RECEIVED THE KINGDOM, THEN HE COMMANDED these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading. 16 Then came the first, saying,

"'Lord, thy pound hath gained ten pounds.' 

17 "And he said unto him, "

'Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities!'

18 "And the second came, saying,

"'Lord, thy pound hath gained five pounds.'

19 "And he said likewise to him,

"'Be thou also over five cities!'

20 "And another came, saying,

"'Lord, behold, here is thy pound, which I have kept laid up in a napkin: 21 For I feared thee, because thou art an austere man: thou takest up that thou layedst not down, and reapest that thou didst not sow.'

22 "And he saith unto him,

"'Out of thine own mouth will I judge thee, thou wicked servant! Thou KNEWEST that I was an austere man, taking up that I laid not down, and reaping that I did not sow: 23 Wherefore then gavest not thou my money into the bank, that at my coming I might have required mine own with usury?'

24 "And he said unto them that stood by,

"'Take from him the pound, and give it to him that hath ten pounds!'

25 "(And they said unto him,

"'Lord, he hath ten pounds!') 

26 "'For I say unto you, That unto every one which hath shall be given; and from him that hath not, even that he hath shall be taken away from him. 27 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me!'"

This is YESHUA` ("JESUS") we're talking about!

Also,

Matthew 25:31-46 (KJV)

31 "WHEN THE SON OF MAN SHALL COME IN HIS GLORY, AND ALL THE HOLY ANGELS WITH HIM, THEN SHALL HE SIT UPON THE THRONE OF HIS GLORY (BRIGHTNESS; FAME): 32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: 33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

34 "Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand,

"'Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: 36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.'

37 "Then shall the righteous answer him, saying,

"'Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? 38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? 39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?'

40 "And the King shall answer and say unto them,

"'Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.'

41 "Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand,

"'Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: 42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: 43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not!' 

44 "Then shall they also answer him, saying,

"'Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?' 

45 "Then shall he answer them, saying,

"'Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.'

46 "And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal."

It's not until He returns that His Kingdom begins! Not in som "Heaven," by the way, but ON EARTH, where He left His disciples to "occupy until He comes" and where all the nations can be gathered before Him and sorted as sheep or goats!

In (Luke 16:15-16), the word says that the law and prophets were until John. Since that time, the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presses into it. He also said to the people that the kingdom of heaven is at hand. So we know that John came preaching the gospel of the kingdom, making the people ready for the Messiah.

Luke 16
15 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.
16 The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.

Matthew 3
1 In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea,
2 And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Jesus told his disciples when he sent them out, say unto them, the kingdom of God is come nigh unto you.

Luke 10
8 And into whatsoever city ye enter, and they receive you, eat such things as are set before you:
9 And heal the sick that are therein, and say unto them, The kingdom of God is come nigh unto you.

After John was imprisoned and Jesus began his ministry, Jesus came into Galilee preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God. He told the people that the time is fulfilled. The kingdom of God is at hand. Further more, Jesus said to repent. Jesus said, the time that John preached to you about that the kingdom of God is at hand "is" fulfilled. It was fulfilled in Jesus.

Mark 1
14 Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,
15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

Next, Jesus taught how to get into the kingdom of God. He came preaching the gospel teaching them the way of salvation. He told Nicodemus, except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. So there is no dispute that when we are born again, we are born into the kingdom of heaven. 

John 3
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

But we know we can only be born again by the death, burial, and resurrection of our Lord Jesus. Paul made it clear. So as many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death. Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death, that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. If we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him. Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dies no more; death has no more dominion over him. When he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he lives, he lives unto God. Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord. When we are born again, we have been redeemed to God. We are born into the kingdom of heaven when we have being redeemed by Christ.

We also know when it was applied. It was applied on the day of Pentecost when the comforter was sent and given by Christ

Romans 6
3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

When we have been redeemed by Christ, our names are then added to the Lambs book of life. Even Jesus said that the kingdom of God is within you. It's within you when you are born again. Paul said he has made us to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints. Who has delivered us from the power of darkness, and has translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son. He "has already" translated us into the kingdom.

Luke 17
20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

Colossians 1
12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

But this is our spiritual birth. We still have the physical resurrection that needs to be accomplished. At this point, only our spirit has been born again as we wait for the redemption of our body.

So the spirit bears witness with our spirit that we are the children of God. We have been spiritually saved. 

But now we wait for the physical delivery of our body, the physical or natural resurrection. The earnest expectation of the creature waits for the manifestation of the sons of God. Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. Until then, we know that the whole creation groans and travails in pain together until now. And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit. We have discussed the firstfruits of the spirit (1 Corinthians 15:20-23). Jesus is the first fruits of the spirit. But by being born again, we also have the firstfruits of the Spirit. This is to have part in the 1st resurrection. 

But until then, we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body. This is the resurrection from the grave.

Romans
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

So when we are saved, we are born again, and have been redeemed by Christ, our spirit is born into the kingdom. But Jesus has gone away to prepare a place for our natural resurrection of our body's. Jesus said that I go to prepare a place, and I will come again and receive you unto myself.

John 14
1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

This is when he will bring his kingdom with him, at the time that he sits on the throne of his glory, which is the throne of judgement. He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 

This is how we that have been redeemed are gathered, to be placed naturally in the kingdom. It is done through the resurrection. This is when Jesus comes back for his bride (19:7-9). 

Next the GWT of judgement. Then heavens and earth will pass away and new Jerusalem will come down from God out of heaven.

Matthew 25
31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
 

Revelation 19
7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.

Revelation 21
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

Yeshua` WILL "deliver His Kingdom to God" at His return! This is easy for him to do since he does yet HAVE His Kingdom with him! 

There is no 2nd resurrection written in the text. There is no 1000 years reign on earth, after Jesus returns. The period of his reign is for eternity. 

 

 

[TMarcum]

10 hours ago, Sister said:

TMarcum

A little here and a little there.  The truth is spread out throughout the scriptures.  Snippets of a certain time that is coming.  God spoke through his prophets thousands of years ago and his Word is still living, it never returns back to him void.

Sometimes the seed planted doesn't sprout straight away, but can take some time.  Take your time, and digest for a while. There's no rush. Meditate on these scriptures.  It's not a fight on who knows more.

Most of these scriptures I gave show the time frame of Christ's return.  They show what follows.  There are nations still about, and dominions.  Not everyone is killed at the Coming, but only the very wicked.  You cannot start a new era with rapists, murderers and thieves still about.  There are many people that don't know Christ, because of circumstances, and many who were born into a different religion.  God see's through all that.  They don't get a place in the 1st resurrection, but some get a second chance.  You see not every HINDU, or BODHIST, MUSLIM, or atheist etc is of a wicked heart.  Many would help a stranger, or give to someone in need.  Many don't lie, or cheat, or steal someone else's wife, and many do not have HATE in their hearts for anyone.  Many of them are humble and don't rise up with pride.  Some have been so oppressed by their cultures, because the devil never let these prisoners go, and God saved them for this time, because more generations have to be born.

You can't paint all people  with the same brush.  This is why there is a refreshing coming.  They will witness Christ, that he is the one.  Christ sees something in all these survivors (remnants) that they can conform their hearts if given a chance to learn the truth.  In turn they will multiply and teach their children and tell them about the old wicked world compared to the new one, and they will speak from experience. 

It's no point in arguing any longer.  I will leave it with one more scripture, in the next post.

 

It is clear that this is the doctrine that you are pushing: 

No one goes to hell. Everybody gets a 2nd chance. If you don't get saved in this life, then don't worry about it! You'll have another 1000 years you get right with God. He is a God of love and would never send anyone to hell. Then we can all sit around the campfire together and sing Kumbaya My Lord.

God bless you sister

[TMarcum]

4 hours ago, iamlamad said:

What do you do with John 14? Many people have been to heaven and got prayed back to their bodies - and while there in heaven have SEEN the mansions, and a few have seen their OWN mansion. 

Many people have seen the preparations for the marriage supper: tables spread along the river of life as far as the eye could see. Others saw preparations going on, while later people were told all the preparations are finished: heaven is now just waiting for the arrival of the saints - the Bride of Christ. 

In other words, when I study end times scriptures, I see TWO more comings very clearly laid out: first a coming FOR the saints, then 7 years later a coming WITH the saints.  I can easily see why so many millions believe as I do, or I believe as they do. 

Someone on a thread once day that pretrib was very much only a USA theory. I immediately went to another website: Interpals, and found 50 people in various nations in Africa that were Christian, and asked them if they thought the rapture would be pretrib - and why. All answered: 49 were pretrib and their answer was: it is scripture. One was not pretrib. So much for pretrib being only a US of A theory. 

Another thing I will not do, is take a verse that makes good sense in a literal sense and imagining it is symbolic.  Anyone can make Revelation say most anything doing that. Well, I guess that is exactly where the world is now. 

I believe John 14, When Jesus went away on a cloud and ascended into heaven, he has gone away for the purpose of preparing a place for his saints that have been born again and redeemed by his blood. Our redemption is during this lifetime. When he returns, he will gather his redeemed. We will be gathered in his kingdom (New Jerusalem). He will bring it with him. John saw it coming down from God out of heaven.

But yes, many have died and came back to life. This has happened numerous times. All these that came back to life, eventually died again. But none have been resurrected to heaven before Christ was resurrected. Christ is the firstfruits of them that slept.

You are right, people with near death situations and came back have seen things un-explainable. Other people are given visions and have dreams. 

There are many more pretib's than amil's. But a majority of pretrib's have never heard of any other theory other than a pretrib option.

Many amil's that you talk to will confess they were premil, then later converted to amil. During my early christian life, all I knew was a premil position. But I have always been one to gather various bible references on any concept (minimal of 3) that confirm the same position, before settling on any theory. I have not been able to do that regarding end time beliefs, which is the reason I converted to amil. This was over 30 years ago. Since then, I have done extensive studies on both sets of theories and know well both sides on virtually every argument.

Which ever we believe is fine and has nothing to do with our salvation. Our salvation is based on our whether we believe that Jesus is the living son of God. But it does made for good discussion and will strengthen us in the word of God, by having dialog such as these. But we must be civil and be forgiving of other peoples opinions and beliefs. 

Edited June 3, 2020 by TMarcum

[iamlamad]

2 minutes ago, TMarcum said:

I believe John 14, When Jesus went away on a cloud and ascended into heaven, he has gone away for the purpose of preparing a place for his saints that have been born again and redeemed by his blood. Our redemption is during this lifetime. When he returns, he will gather his redeemed. We will be gathered in his kingdom (New Jerusalem). He will bring it with him. John saw it coming down from God out of heaven.

But yes, many have died and came back to life. This has happened numerous times. All these that came back to life, eventually died again. But none have been resurrected to heaven before Christ was resurrected. Christ is the firstfruits of them that slept.

You are right, people with near death situations and came back have seen things un-explainable. Other people are given visions and have dreams. 

There are many more pretib's than amil's. But a majority of pretrib's have never heard of any other theory other than a pretrib option.

Many amil's that you talk to will confess they were premil, then later converted to amil. During my early christian life, all I knew was a premil position. But I have always been one to gather various bible references on any concept (minimal of 3) that confirm the same position, before settling on any theory. I have not been able to do that regarding end time beliefs, which is the reason I converted to amil. This was over 30 years ago. Since then, I have done extensive studies on both sets of theories and know well both sides on virtually every argument.

Which ever we believe is fine and has nothing to do with our salvation. Our salvation is based on our whether we believe that Jesus is the living son of God. But it does made for good discussion and will strengthen us in the word of God, by having dialog such as these. But we must be civil and be forgiving of other peoples opinions and beliefs. 

When he returns, he will gather his redeemed. We will be gathered in his kingdom (New Jerusalem). He will bring it with him. John saw it coming down from God out of heaven.

 There are TIMING issues here. 

When He returns: WHICH return? Paul shows a coming before God's wrath begins on earth (At the 6th seal) 

Rev. 19 shows His return to Armageddon where the saints come WITH HIM - all riding on white horses. 

The Holy City will not descend EVER on this planet. Old earth and the heavens will disappear and God will create a NEW heaven and earth. Then, the Holy City will descend to the NEW earth. But that is after the 1000 year reign of Christ. 

All these that came back to life, eventually died again. But none have been resurrected to heaven before Christ was resurrected. Christ is the firstfruits of them that slept.

  I was speaking of the time that they were dead before they were prayed back to their body.

Christ is the very first to be resurrected to a resurrection, flesh and bone body.  Paul taught that to be absent from our flesh and blood body is to be present with the Lord - IN HEAVEN. It is not a resurrection: it is just a place to be [spirit and soul] until the day of Resurrection. However, it is WONDERFUL and will be wonderful to all who wait until the resurrection day there. Many of the Old and New testament saints are there now waiting.  Yes, those that were prayed back to their body (from heaven) all died again, or will die again. 

But a majority of pretrib's have never heard of any other theory other than a pretrib option. 

Perhaps this is true.