Raptured

[Diaste]

Read just the highlighted parts:

So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination of desolation,’

described by the prophet Daniel (let the reader understand), then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. Let no one on the housetop come down to retrieve anything from his house. And let no one in the field return for his cloak.How miserable those days will be for pregnant and nursing mothers! Pray that your flight will not occur in the winter or on the Sabbath. For...

at that time there will be great tribulation, unmatched from the beginning of the world until now, and never to be seen again. If those days had not been cut short, nobody would be saved. But for the sake of the elect, those days will be cut short. At that time, if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There He is!’ do not believe it. For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders that would deceive even the elect, if that were possible. See, I have told you in advance. So if they tell you, ‘There He is in the wilderness,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here He is in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. For just as the lightning comes from the east and flashes as far as the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather.

Immediately after the tribulation of those days:

‘The sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.

At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, 
and all the tribes of the earth will mourn.

They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.

And He will send out His angels with a loud trumpet call, 

and they will gather His elect

from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

Anywhere else in all of scripture where the Creator of all things lays out the exact plan and order as clear as this?

Does the Pretrib scenario have this kind of order, clarity and as succinct and concise?

If the elect are gathered here but it's not the church, why does the church think it's not the selected chosen of the Lord? 

Is 'one end of the heavens to the other' a metaphor for 'everywhere on the earth'?

[Last Daze]

1 hour ago, Diaste said:

Anywhere else in all of scripture where the Creator of all things lays out the exact plan and order as clear as this?

Does the Pretrib scenario have this kind of order, clarity and as succinct and concise?

Brings to mind this scripture:

• Surely the Lord God does nothing unless He reveals His secret counsel to His servants the prophets.  Amos 3:7

[The Light]

2 hours ago, Diaste said:

 

At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, 
and all the tribes of the earth will mourn.

They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.

And He will send out His angels with a loud trumpet call, 

and they will gather His elect

from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

Why did you not bold this: from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

Let me add this for you. The gathering is from heaven (the Church) and earth (the 12 tribes)

Mark 13

²⁷ And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

2 hours ago, Diaste said:

Anywhere else in all of scripture where the Creator of all things lays out the exact plan and order as clear as this?

 

So you think this is an exact plan and crystal clear. Is there anywhere else in ALL OF SCRIPTURE where the creator lays out the exact plan and order as clear as this?

How crystal clear is this?

Matt 24

⁴⁴ Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

You make me want to chuckle. You say is there anywhere else in ALL OF SCRIPTURE where the exact plan and order are as clear as this and you are unable to see the obvious.

 

2 hours ago, Diaste said:

Does the Pretrib scenario have this kind of order, clarity and as succinct and concise?

 

Yes, the pretrib scenario has much more order and clarity and is more succinct and concise. What could be clearer than this?

Matt 24

⁴⁴ Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

2 hours ago, Diaste said:

 

If the elect are gathered here but it's not the church, why does the church think it's not the selected chosen of the Lord? 

 

The church is gathered here, however it is not from the earth.  The Church is gathered from heaven. The twelve tribes that are gathered from the earth as their eyes are opened when the fullness of the Gentiles comes in. That happens at the pretrib rapture. The nation of Israel remains on earth in a place of protection.

Conclusion: Both the Church and the twelve tribes across the earth are the ELECT.

2 hours ago, Diaste said:

 

Is 'one end of the heavens to the other' a metaphor for 'everywhere on the earth'?

We are given clarity here.

Mark 13

²⁷ And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

When will you see?

[The Light]

1 hour ago, Last Daze said:

Brings to mind this scripture:

• Surely the Lord God does nothing unless He reveals His secret counsel to His servants the prophets.  Amos 3:7

Which brings to mind this scripture:

Matt 24

⁴⁴ Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

[Diaste]

3 hours ago, The Light said:

Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

So only a pretrib scenario can satisfy this? That's illogical, Captain. 

[The Light]

1 hour ago, Diaste said:

So only a pretrib scenario can satisfy this? That's illogical, Captain. 

I find it odd and fairly humorous that you carry on about how precise, clear and orderly the rapture scenario is and yet you fail to see that he is coming in an hour that you think not.

What gives?

 

[Marilyn C]

13 hours ago, Diaste said:

 

 

Anywhere else in all of scripture where the Creator of all things lays out the exact plan and order as clear as this?

Does the Pretrib scenario have this kind of order, clarity and as succinct and concise?

If the elect are gathered here but it's not the church, why does the church think it's not the selected chosen of the Lord? 

Is 'one end of the heavens to the other' a metaphor for 'everywhere on the earth'?

Yes that is very clear for the people of ISRAEL. That is to whom the Lord was speaking, and we also know that the Body of Christ revelation was NOT known previous to that or revealed by the Lord.

So the clear exact plan of the pre-trib.

1. Seeing the Day of the Lord, (time period) approaching.

`Brethren, you are NOT in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief.` (1 Thess. 5: 4)

`...but exhorting, (encouraging & warning) one another, and so much the more as YOU SEE the day approaching.` (Heb. 10: 25)

2. The Lord descends with those asleep in Him.  (no angels)

`For the Lord Himself shall descend...` `God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.` (1 Thess. 4: 14 & 15)

3. We all rise together to meet the Lord in the air.

` The dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. ` (1 Thess. 16 & 17)

4. We go to the Lord`s own throne.

`To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with me on My throne...`  (Rev. 3: 21)

 

[Marilyn C]

14 hours ago, Diaste said:

 

 

If the elect are gathered here but it's not the church, why does the church think it's not the selected chosen of the Lord? 

 

`For Jacob my servant`s sake, and for ISRAEL MY ELECT.`  (Isa. 45: 4)

[branchesofHim]

Rapture is a teaching on suppositions from scripture. Sounds good. Shalom.

[Diaste]

15 hours ago, The Light said:

I find it odd and fairly humorous that you carry on about how precise, clear and orderly the rapture scenario is and yet you fail to see that he is coming in an hour that you think not.

What gives?

 

I don't fail to see it at all. I'm saying the idea of pretrib is not the sole answer. It is an answer and it does work based on imminence, or the pretrib version of imminence which says 'no prophesied events can occur before the rapture'.

'In an hour ye think not' does away with both mid trib and post trib easily in my mind. We could simply count the days to both. Not so much for mid trib unless one knew the exact day the week began, but certainly for post trib. But there are problems with this thinking as well.

Of course I don't hold to any of those ideas for one main reason and it's 'an hour ye think not', and 'no man knows the day and hour'.  

Pretrib likes to group clock and calendar in 'an hour ye think not', and 'no man knows the day and hour' but that's an error. Jesus did not say 'no man knows the date', He said 'day and hour'.

We could know that the rapture is coming in July of 2020, but not know the rapture happens on the 19th at 2 pm. We could maybe know the rapture is going to occur the last week of July 2020 but not know it's on Wednesday during breakfast. 

This fit perfectly with scripture and allows for exactly what scripture teaches; in an hour we don't know, no man knows the day and hour, the parable of the homeowner and thief in the night. In every one of these it's 'hour and day', not week, year, month.

While pretrib isn't wrong in this case it's an error to assume what isn't there.

Defined correctly, along with an accurate understanding of the time periods, this puts the rapture (gathering) past the midpoint of the week and before wrath begins; just months, or maybe a year, before the end of the week. Hopefully the 2nd advent occurs very soon after the midpoint cause it's going to be bad.

So then no matter what prophesied events occur the rapture(gathering) is still imminent as we can never know the exact time/space moment (day/hour) of His return.