Raptured

[douggg]

25 minutes ago, Diaste said:

 

Immediately after the tribulation of those days: ‘The sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 

At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will mourn.

They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.

The day of the Lord ends the wrath of Satan ergo, the days of GT.

The Rapture to happen anytime before the beginning of the Day of the Lord.

1Thessalonians5:

8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.

9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

11 Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.

 

 

Edited July 3, 2020 by douggg

[Diaste]

53 minutes ago, douggg said:

9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

This is a fact and it is undisputed. The dispute is, "When does wrath begin?"

[Uriah]

1 hour ago, Diaste said:

This is a fact and it is undisputed. The dispute is, "When does wrath begin?"

Looking at the context of the quoted verse, one can see that Paul  was not talking about a period of years of months of, "wrath", as compared to John's writing of God's acts of wrath in Revelation. Not "appointed" to wrath is actually speaking of at God's judgment. The context begins in the previous chapter while telling of "those who are asleep".

And in ch. 5 he relates it to "that DAY". Further evidence of this is found in Rom, 2:5,8,9,- But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;...But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

Forcing Paul's teaching about the DAY of wrath of God's judgment ignores his ability to refer to one topic while teaching about another, and amounts to sleight of pre-trib teachers. 

[douggg]

2 hours ago, Diaste said:

This is a fact and it is undisputed. The dispute is, "When does wrath begin?"

We can pinpoint, more or less, when Satan's wrath begins.

 

Revelation 12:

12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

 

Essentially for when the great tribulation begins.

 

 

[The Light]

31 minutes ago, Uriah said:

Looking at the context of the quoted verse, one can see that Paul  was not talking about a period of years of months of, "wrath", as compared to John's writing of God's acts of wrath in Revelation. Not "appointed" to wrath is actually speaking of at God's judgment. The context begins in the previous chapter while telling of "those who are asleep".

Hi Uriah,

What you are saying is incorrect. When we look at the context we can clearly see that Paul is talking about not only the dead but also the alive that remain. The alive that remain will be caught up before the wrath of God begins. This is the same wrath that we see in Revelation, which is the wrath of God ( 7 trumpets or 7 vials)

1 Thes 4

¹⁶ For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

¹⁷ Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

31 minutes ago, Uriah said:

And in ch. 5 he relates it to "that DAY".

That day is the Day of the Lord. I could post numerous that prove what "that DAY" is. One should suffice.

Zec 14

Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.

² For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

³ Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.

31 minutes ago, Uriah said:

Further evidence of this is found in Rom, 2:5,8,9,- But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;...But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

 

You are bleeding verse 8 that talks of those that OBEY unrighteousness, indignation and WRATH into verse 9 which say Tribulation and anguish upon the souls (that OBEY unrighteousness, indignation and WRATH)

Rom 2

⁵ But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;

⁸ But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,

⁹ Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

31 minutes ago, Uriah said:

Forcing Paul's teaching about the DAY of wrath of God's judgment ignores his ability to refer to one topic while teaching about another, and amounts to sleight of pre-trib teachers. 

I believe in a pretrib rapture and these verses don't affect what I believe whatsoever. 1 Thes 5 is clearly talking about the day of the Lord which is the day of his wrath, which is the 7 trumpets or seven bowls that we see in Revelation.

[The Light]

31 minutes ago, douggg said:

We can pinpoint, more or less, when Satan's wrath begins.

 

Revelation 12:

12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

 

Essentially for when the great tribulation begins.

 

 

Come on man. Satan's wrath has nothing to do with God's wrath.

[Revelation Man]

7 hours ago, douggg said:

The Rapture to happen anytime before the beginning of the Day of the Lord.

1Thessalonians5:

8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.

9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

11 Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.

 

 

You are correct brother on the Greatest ever troubles, but the Wrath of God covers the same 1260 days. So, the Beast Conquers and starts ruling the world, and God starts pelting the world with Judgments, the first four Trumpet Judgments are what allow the Beast to conquer. The United States will be incapacitated by an asteroid. 

The Sorrows are the Pestilence we see now, and the Lawlessness, it BIRTHS the 70th week. Jesus is describing nothing in Matt. 7-14 as being the Great Trib., that's just wrong analysis. The Seals do cover all 3.5 years, but only because they are Prophesies about whats coming over the next 42 months, the first five (5 seals) are about the Anti-Christ/Beast the 6th Seal about God's coming Wrath that starts with the 1st Trumpet. Nothing starts until the midway point. 

The Rapture will happen before the 70th week, these guys will never get it. I have never seen people that think they know so much, but or so ill informed. It amazes me. I have wiped the dust off my feet with them. 

Edited July 3, 2020 by Revelation Man

[douggg]

54 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

The Rapture will happen before the 70th week, these guys will never get it. I have seen people that thin they know so much, but or so ill informed. It amazes me. I have wiped the dust off my feet with them. 

The rapture COULD happen before the 70th week begins.   But it may not.   Here is my chart on the rapture timing.

 

 

 

 

And her is my chart on timeframes, since you mentioned the 1260 days.   This chart is not rapture related.    But is more to show when to refer to the person as the Antichrist, and when not to.

 

[douggg]

1 hour ago, The Light said:

Come on man. Satan's wrath has nothing to do with God's wrath.

In 1thessalonians5:9  it just says wrath, and does not distinguish as only pertaining to God's wrath.

 

9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

11 Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.

 

[The Light]

38 minutes ago, douggg said:

In 1thessalonians5:9  it just says wrath, and does not distinguish as only pertaining to God's wrath.

 

9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

11 Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.

 

When we look at the prior verses in the chapter we can clearly see that Paul is talking about the day of the Lord, the day of HIS WRATH. It has nothing to do with the wrath of Satan.

You make so many false conclusions. Your timeline is a complete house cards with no foundation. You have forced so many things into places that they do not go. One error leads to another error which leads to another which leads to a complete mess. Burn it down and start over with facts and not incorrect conclusions.

1 Thes 5

5 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.

² For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

³ For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

⁴ But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

⁵ Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.

⁶ Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.

⁷ For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.

⁸ But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.

⁹ For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,