Bulldozing churches... this is where its heading

[Daniel Marsh]

3 minutes ago, theElect777 said:

 

 

 

I am confused here.  This is the list of their beliefs (RPU).

 

We believe:

In the verbal inspiration of the Bible.

In one eternal God who exists in three persons, namely: the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.

That Jesus Christ is the only begotten Son of the Father, through the Holy Spirit and born of the virgin Mary. That Jesus Christ was crucified, buried, and raised from the dead. That Jesus Christ ascended to heaven and that today he is at the right hand of the Father as Mediator.

That all have sinned and are deprived of the glory of God, and that repentance is a commandment given by God to all men, being necessary for the remission of sins.

That righteousness, regeneration, and rebirth are acquired through faith in the blood of Jesus Christ.

In sanctification that follows after being born again through faith in the blood of Christ, through the Word, and through the Holy Spirit.

That holiness is God's standard for the living.

In the baptism with the Holy Spirit that follows the purification of the heart.

In speaking in tongues as the Holy Spirit gives and speaking in tongues is the initial evidence of the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

In water baptism by immersion and that all who repent must be baptized in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.

That divine healing is for all who are in the atonement of Jesus Christ.

In the practice of the Lord's Supper, followed by the washing of the feet of the saints.

In the second coming of the Lord Jesus before the establishment of the thousand-year reign. first, for the resurrection of the righteous dead in Christ, and for the rapture of the living saints to meet him in the air. secondly to rule a thousand years on earth.

In the resurrection in the flesh, in the eternal life of the righteous, and in the eternal punishment of those who live in unrighteousness.

 

 

I am looking at this list and really do not see anything wrong.   Can someone point out what makes them a CULT?

If  you follow the site links,  they are to United Pentecostal Bible School and Denomination.   Often those in cults will use the same vocabulary with different meanings.    When they speak of the different persons, they are saying God in three masks or modes. 

Here is another way UPCI word things in a statement of beliefs,  the problem phrase there is "He presents Himself in various forms"  http://www.apostolicchristian.org/who-is-god  Read their full statement and likely those who have not been trained to witness to cults will not see the problem. 

They have big problems as a cult group,  they have no idea how to be peaceful and respectful towards others,  

https://www.9news.com/article/news/controversial-sign-outside-church-draws-protestors/73-344942873

 

 

 

[Guest theElect777]

16 minutes ago, Daniel Marsh said:

If  you follow the site links,  they are to United Pentecostal Bible School and Denomination.   Often those in cults will use the same vocabulary with different meanings.    When they speak of the different persons, they are saying God in three masks or modes. 

Here is another way UPCI word things in a statement of beliefs,  the problem phrase there is "He presents Himself in various forms"  http://www.apostolicchristian.org/who-is-god  Read their full statement and likely those who have not been trained to witness to cults will not see the problem. 

They have big problems as a cult group,  they have no idea how to be peaceful and respectful towards others,  

https://www.9news.com/article/news/controversial-sign-outside-church-draws-protestors/73-344942873

 

 

 

 

 

 

Didn't Christ present Himself as Melchizedek?   Didn't Christ present Himself as a Burning Bush?   Didn't Christ present Himself as the Angel of the Lord?  Didn't Christ present Himself as the General of God's Army to Joshua?   Didn't Christ present Himself as a man to Shadrach-Meshach-Abednego in the Fiery Furnace?   Didn't Christ present Himself as the Messiah?   And in all of these, wasn't Christ the WORD?    

 

I am confused here why you are nitpicking this?

Edited July 12, 2020 by theElect777

[Daniel Marsh]

They disobey Romans 

"

 

Elim Romanian Pentecostal Church Chicago

JuodaStSlpyl 3o aforsntsororr haSae6d:19uc hPM  · 

 

Well, so it is not over, is it?

Churches need to ignore and disobey this order!

It’s clearly in contempt of churches and it is another assault on the 1st Amendment!"

https://www.facebook.com/elimro/?ref=bookmarks

[Daniel Marsh]

Romans 13 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
Obey Your Government Rulers
13 All of you must obey the government rulers. Everyone who rules was given the power to rule by God. And all those who rule now were given that power by God. 2 So anyone who is against the government is really against something God has commanded. Those who are against the government bring punishment on themselves. 3 People who do right don’t have to fear the rulers. But those who do wrong must fear them. Do you want to be free from fearing them? Then do only what is right, and they will praise you.

4 Rulers are God’s servants to help you. But if you do wrong, you have reason to be afraid. They have the power to punish, and they will use it. They are God’s servants to punish those who do wrong. 5 So you must obey the government, not just because you might be punished, but because you know it is the right thing to do.

6 And this is why you pay taxes too. Those rulers are working for God, and they give all their time to the work of ruling. 7 Give everyone what you owe them. If you owe them any kind of tax, then pay it. Show respect to those you should respect. And show honor to those you should honor.

[Guest theElect777]

4 minutes ago, Daniel Marsh said:

They disobey Romans 

"

 

Elim Romanian Pentecostal Church Chicago

JuodaStSlpyl 3o aforsntsororr haSae6d:19uc hPM  · 

 

Well, so it is not over, is it?

Churches need to ignore and disobey this order!

It’s clearly in contempt of churches and it is another assault on the 1st Amendment!"

https://www.facebook.com/elimro/?ref=bookmarks

 

 

 

The Bible also states if Government interferes in Godly things, we are to ignore the Government.   This thread seems more like legalism than anything I have ever read before in my life, even more so than the Mosaic Law!

Edited July 12, 2020 by theElect777

[Daniel Marsh]

3 minutes ago, theElect777 said:

 

 

 

Didn't Christ present Himself as Melchizedek?   Didn't Christ present Himself as a Burning Bush?   Didn't Christ present Himself as the Angel of the Lord?  Didn't Christ present Himself as the General of god's Army to Joshua?   Didn't God present Himself as a man to Shadrach-Meshach-Abednego?   Didn't Christ present himself as the Messiah?   And in all of these, wasn't Christ the WORD?    

 

I am confused here why you are nitpicking this?

You would have to prove each of your assertions.   And, they are not the same thing.    Historical Christians teach that there are in fact three persons within the Godhead, but that there is only one God.

Their Theology is that of the heretic known as Sabellius whom was excommunicated for teaching "Another Jesus"  one who is not the true Jesus. https://biblehub.com/library/pamphilius/church_history/chapter_vi_the_heresy_of_sabellius.htm  https://www.catholic.com/magazine/print-edition/sabellianism  

 

If one is following "another Jesus"  then they are Not going to heaven.

"Sabellianism, also known as modalism, is a heresy which states that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are different modes or aspects of one God, rather than three distinct persons."  https://orthodoxwiki.org/Sabellianism

https://www.gotquestions.org/Sabellianism.html  He was refuted by https://www.gotquestions.org/Hippolytus-of-Rome.html

https://soul-candy.info/2016/05/heresy-of-sabellianism/  

 

 

 

[Daniel Marsh]

Modalists

The Monarchians properly so-called (Modalists) exaggerated the oneness of the Father and the Son so as to make them but one Person; thus the distinctions in the Holy Trinity are energies or modes, not Persons: God the Father appears on earth as Son; hence it seemed to their opponents that Monarchians made the Father suffer and die. In the West they were called Patripassians, whereas in the East they are usually called Sabellians. The first to visit Rome was probably Praxeas, who went on to Carthage some time before 206-208; but he was apparently not in reality a heresiarch, and the arguments refuted by Tertullian somewhat later in his book "Adversus Praxean" are doubtless those of the Roman Monarchians (see PRAXEAS).

https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/10448a.htm

 

[Daniel Marsh]

God Is A Changing God
Modalism also undermines the Biblical teaching that God never changes for it portrays a God who changes His modes. The Bible pictures God as unchanging:

For I am the Lord, I do not change (Malachi 3:6).

Furthermore, Modalism takes away from the mediatorial work of Christ. The Bible teaches that Jesus is a mediator between God and humanity.

For there is one God and one mediator between God and humanity, the man Christ Jesus (1 Timothy 2:5).

The Modalistic view of God, that the Father and Son are the same person, would have God mediating between Himself. This is not biblical or logical.

The Father And Son Are Distinct
Modalism does not fit the facts The Bible says the Father loves the Son,

The Father loves the Son and has given all things into his hand (John 3:35).

Jesus said.

For the Father loves the Son and shows him all he does. Yes, to your amazement he will show him even greater things than these (John 5:20).

This does not mean the Father loves Himself.

Scripture says the Father sent the Son.

Jesus therefore said to them again, "Peace be with you; as the Father has sent me, I also send you" (John 20:21).

He did not send Himself. The Bible also says the Son returned to the Father.

Jesus said, "Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet returned to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, 'I am returning to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God'" (John 20:17).

The Son did not return to Himself.

The Father Sent The Holy Spirit
The Bible says Father sends the Holy Spirit.

But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you (John 14:26).

Again, He is not sending Himself.

Modalism Is Inconsistent And Confusing
If the Father, Son, and Spirit are the only God under three different names or modes, then the New Testament would be totally inconsistent and confusing. For example, in the prayer of Jesus Christ, recorded in John 17, He is addressing His Father. According to Modalism He is praying to Himself. Such an idea is absurd.

Summary
Modalism or Sabellianism is a non-biblical way of understanding the nature of God. It is one of the heresies under the heading of Unitarianism. Modalism says that there is one God who manifests Himself in three different modes. God sometimes manifests himself as the Father, at other times as the Son, and still on other occasions as the Holy Spirit. The God of Modalism is a changing God. This concept of God is opposed to what the Bible teaches. First, the Bible says that God exists in three distinct Persons - the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. He is not merely one Person as the Unitarians believe. In addition, the God of the Bible does not change - his nature stays forever the same. Finally the Bible gives examples of Jesus praying to the Father. According to Modalism he would be praying to himself. This is a ridiculous idea. Consequently the God of Modalism is not the God of Scripture.

https://www.blueletterbible.org/faq/don_stewart/don_stewart_338.cfm

[Guest theElect777]

1 minute ago, Daniel Marsh said:

You would have to prove each of your assertions.   And, they are not the same thing.    Historical Christians teach that there are in fact three persons within the Godhead, but that there is only one God.

Their Theology is that of the heretic known as Sabellius whom was excommunicated for teaching "Another Jesus"  one who is not the true Jesus. https://biblehub.com/library/pamphilius/church_history/chapter_vi_the_heresy_of_sabellius.htm  https://www.catholic.com/magazine/print-edition/sabellianism  

 

If one is following "another Jesus"  then they are Not going to heaven.

"Sabellianism, also known as modalism, is a heresy which states that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are different modes or aspects of one God, rather than three distinct persons."  https://orthodoxwiki.org/Sabellianism

https://www.gotquestions.org/Sabellianism.html  He was refuted by https://www.gotquestions.org/Hippolytus-of-Rome.html

https://soul-candy.info/2016/05/heresy-of-sabellianism/  

 

 

 

But I don't care what Historical Churches claim.   We now have access to proper translations.   And still within those proper translations, we cannot defend why we are Trinity because there is no listing for persons representing One God.   That is an assumption we just Believe!

[Guest theElect777]

Just now, Daniel Marsh said:

God Is A Changing God
Modalism also undermines the Biblical teaching that God never changes for it portrays a God who changes His modes. The Bible pictures God as unchanging:

For I am the Lord, I do not change (Malachi 3:6).

Furthermore, Modalism takes away from the mediatorial work of Christ. The Bible teaches that Jesus is a mediator between God and humanity.

For there is one God and one mediator between God and humanity, the man Christ Jesus (1 Timothy 2:5).

The Modalistic view of God, that the Father and Son are the same person, would have God mediating between Himself. This is not biblical or logical.

The Father And Son Are Distinct
Modalism does not fit the facts The Bible says the Father loves the Son,

The Father loves the Son and has given all things into his hand (John 3:35).

Jesus said.

For the Father loves the Son and shows him all he does. Yes, to your amazement he will show him even greater things than these (John 5:20).

This does not mean the Father loves Himself.

Scripture says the Father sent the Son.

Jesus therefore said to them again, "Peace be with you; as the Father has sent me, I also send you" (John 20:21).

He did not send Himself. The Bible also says the Son returned to the Father.

Jesus said, "Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet returned to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, 'I am returning to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God'" (John 20:17).

The Son did not return to Himself.

The Father Sent The Holy Spirit
The Bible says Father sends the Holy Spirit.

But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you (John 14:26).

Again, He is not sending Himself.

Modalism Is Inconsistent And Confusing
If the Father, Son, and Spirit are the only God under three different names or modes, then the New Testament would be totally inconsistent and confusing. For example, in the prayer of Jesus Christ, recorded in John 17, He is addressing His Father. According to Modalism He is praying to Himself. Such an idea is absurd.

Summary
Modalism or Sabellianism is a non-biblical way of understanding the nature of God. It is one of the heresies under the heading of Unitarianism. Modalism says that there is one God who manifests Himself in three different modes. God sometimes manifests himself as the Father, at other times as the Son, and still on other occasions as the Holy Spirit. The God of Modalism is a changing God. This concept of God is opposed to what the Bible teaches. First, the Bible says that God exists in three distinct Persons - the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. He is not merely one Person as the Unitarians believe. In addition, the God of the Bible does not change - his nature stays forever the same. Finally the Bible gives examples of Jesus praying to the Father. According to Modalism he would be praying to himself. This is a ridiculous idea. Consequently the God of Modalism is not the God of Scripture.

https://www.blueletterbible.org/faq/don_stewart/don_stewart_338.cfm

You are legalism!