Is God Responsible For The Evil In The World? No He Is Not.

[JAG**]

1 hour ago, Josheb said:

Then the human will is not autonomous or free. Whether God intervenes or not

the human will always exists within the context of God's ability to usurp the

human will anytime, anywhere, any way, for whatever purposes He so chooses.

He alone is volitionally autonomous, unfettered, and free.

Observe that list of sins and crimes down below:

A question for you.

Did the people who recently committed  the following sins and crimes  use their Free Will to choose to do these things and are 

 they 100% responsible and to blame?

Looting of stores

Burning police cars

Rioting in the streets 

Throwing bricks through  store front windows

Shooting police officers 

 

Edited July 24, 2020 by JAG**

[JAG**]

2 hours ago, Josheb said:

There are not many verses that teach free will wherein the term mean unfettered or

autonomous. None. You were asked. You were asked and have refused. So don't

bicker with me if you're not gonna put up. 

 

 

I don't have any intention to "put up" and I have explained why several times.

Moreover  , , ,

I don't have any personal interest in your hair-splitting highly philosophical  nuances 

between certain ideas,  example your desire to distinguish  between

{1) Human Free Will

and 

{2} Human Volitional Agency , , ,

, , ,but that does not mean that you  can't make your points about that. Please feel free to "hold forth" on that 

to your heart's content.

I am interested in Real World answers to Real World questions , , ,

Observe that list of sins and crimes down below:

A question for you.

Did the people who recently committed  the following sins and crimes  use their Free Will to choose to do these things and are 

 they 100% responsible and to blame?

Looting of stores

Burning police cars

Rioting in the streets 

Throwing bricks through  store front windows

Shooting police officers 

 

 

 

Edited July 24, 2020 by JAG**

[Glory To God]

42 minutes ago, JAG** said:

Thanks for your response, but you are not answering the crucial questions

about what Real World conclusions you draw from what you are saying.

If you do not  have credible answers to  the question below, then your

beliefs have no pragmatic application to real world events.

"because of  God's decision and not man's will or choices"___Gloy To God

"to harden their hearts"___Glory To God

Observe that list of sins and crimes down below:

A question for you.

Did the people who recently committed  the following sins and crimes  use their Free Will to choose to do these things and are 

 they 100% responsible and to blame or is your view that God "hardened their hearts"? and caused them to do that list of sins and crimes down there?

Looting of stores

Burning police cars

Rioting in the streets 

Throwing bricks through  store front windows

Shooting police officers 

 

 

Well I already explained my postition on human agency so the question should be derived from that. 

 

I opened up the dialogue based on scripture and the biblical narative of the israelites, I don't see the relevance between the aforementioned and modern day rioting. And I will add I don't think it's helpful making comparisons between scripture, the supernatural and earthly physical things. In my opinion the two can't really be compared well against each other, consider how many failed or poor attempts people have made at comparing the Trinity with non-spiritual things. 

 

Just wanted to drop some scripture in for people to ponder on. ?

[dhchristian]

On 7/22/2020 at 4:09 PM, JAG** said:

Man's Free Will is responsible for all the evil in the would.
God created a perfect world.

Out of curiousity, how do you explain this verse? I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. (Isa 45:7)

[JAG**]

7 minutes ago, Glory To God said:

 

Well I already explained my postition on human agency so the question should be derived from that. 

 

I opened up the dialogue based on scripture and the biblical narative of the israelites,

I don't see the relevance between the aforementioned and modern day rioting. And I

will add I don't think it's helpful making comparisons between scripture, the

supernatural and earthly physical things. In my opinion the two can't really be

compared well against each other, consider how many failed or poor attempts

people have made at comparing the Trinity with non-spiritual things. 

 

Just wanted to drop some scripture in for people to ponder on. ?

"Well I already explained my postition on human agency so the

question should be derived from that. "___Glory To God

 

Okay.

And thanks for all your comments and for your contribution to the thread.

Based on what you wrote up there I assume that you  put 100% of the blame and responsibility 

on The Mob out there in the streets that did all this below. If so, then we are fully agreed.

________________________

"because of  God's decision and not man's will or choices"___Gloy To God

"to harden their hearts"___Glory To God

Observe that list of sins and crimes down below:

A question for you.

Did the people who recently committed  the following sins and crimes  use their Free Will to choose to do these things and are 

 they 100% responsible and to blame or is your view that God "hardened their hearts"? and caused them to do that list of sins and crimes down there?

Looting of stores

Burning police cars

Rioting in the streets 

Throwing bricks through  store front windows

Shooting police officers 

 

 

 

[JAG**]

2 hours ago, dhchristian said:

Out of curiousity, how do you explain this verse? I form the light, and

create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these 

things. (Isa 45:7)

The word "evil" means "disaster" and does not men sin.

^"I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things.___Isaiah 45:7 NIV

Bible Gateway has 57 different English translations of Isaiah 45:7 and none of them translate it like this:

^"I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create SIN; I, the LORD, do all these things."

So?

So Isaiah 45:7 is not saying that God causes men to choose to commit sins.

My view is that Isaiah 45:7 teaches that God brings disaster and calamity  upon men for His

good purposes and reasons. Some of His reasons might be to punish men for their sins. At other times

He might bring disaster on His believers in order to purify them or sanctify them or to teach them

valuable lessons. 

______________

I do know that Isaiah 45:7 does  NOT say that God  caused The Mob to commit that list of sins and crimes listed down there.

Looting of stores

Burning police cars

Rioting in the streets 

Throwing bricks through  store front windows

Shooting police officers 

 

The  people who recently committed  the above list of  sins and crimes  used their Free Will to choose to commit those sins.

 And they are 100% responsible and  100% to blame for their choosing  to sin. 

 Again,  Isaiah 45:7 does NOT teach that God caused The Mob in the streets to loot stores, burn police cars,

riot in the streets,  throw bricks through store front windows, and shoot police officers. 

JAG

 

 

Edited July 24, 2020 by JAG**

[dhchristian]

Just now, JAG** said:

So Isaiah 45:7 is not saying that God causes men to choose to commit sins.

My view is that Isaiah 45:7 teaches that God brings disaster and calamity  upon men for His

good purposes and reasons. Some of His reasons might be to punish men for their sins. At other times

He might bring disaster on His believers in order to purify them or sanctify them or to teach them

valuable lessons. 

God allowed for free will in mankind that they could freely choose to serve him. Did He create Sin? No Man is the source of sin, But he created man with the capacity to choose to commit sin, and also with the capacity to choose to Have faith, and choose to serve Him. Virtue, that comes with the threat of the sword is not virtue, but self preservation, virtue that comes from the freedom to choose between good and evil and one chooses to do the good is true virtue. This is what the cross enables that the curse of the Law could not empower mankind to do who had fallen into sin. This is the difference between the Law of Sin and death and the Law of the Spirit of Life (Romans 8:1-5)

[dhchristian]

Just now, Josheb said:

Already covered several times by both the op and others in the thread. 

I did not ask you...

[JAG**]

``

 

I will post some Bible verses that clearly teach and assume the truth of  human Free Will:

 

Galatians 5:13

You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom

to indulge the flesh; rather, serve one another humbly in love."

The assumption is that the readers will use their Free Will to choose

not to indulge the flesh, but will choose to serve one another in love.

___________________

John 7:17 

"Anyone who chooses to do the will of God will find out whether my

teaching comes from God or whether I speak on my own."

A clear and solid Bible verses that teaches Free Will

__________________

Joshua 24:15

"But if serving the LORD seems undesirable to you, then choose for

yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods your

ancestors served beyond the Euphrates, or the gods of the

Amorites, in whose land you are living. But as for me and

my household, we will serve the LORD."

____________

 

More coming , , ,

 

 

``

[JAG**]

Mark 8:34

"Then he called the crowd to him along with his disciples and said: "Whoever

wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross and follow me.

Assumes that the listeners would use their Free Will to choose to take up their cross and follow the

Lord Jesus

__________________

Revelation 3:20

"Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the

door, I will come in and eat with that person, and they with me."

Assumes that the readers will use their Free Will to choose to open the door.

_____________

John 3:16

"For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son that whosoever

believes on Him shall not perish but have eternal life."

Assumes that the person hearing this will use their Free Will to choose to believe

on the Lord Jesus and receive eternal life.

________________

 

More coming , , ,

 

 

JAG