game Reform Club

[Deadworm]

2 hours ago, David1701 said:

 

David: "Sharing in fellowship is not a re-enactment.  That is not rocket science to understand."

What is needed is not "rocket science" but sound exegesis.

David: "My view is that it refers to the afflictions Paul suffered in his flesh (referred to as the "afflictions of Christ", because we are His body on earth)."

Your view is flawed by your calculated evasion of the phrase "crucified again" in Heb. 6:6, which implies reenactment.  You don't know Greek and so you overlook the fact that "hysterema" means both "lack" and "represent Him in His absence."  "Lack" implies that Christ's sufferings on the cross need to be reenacted through Christian suffering in the service of the Gospel to fulfill their purpose.  In the case of the Eucharist "represent Him in His absence" is a metaphor, but also denotes Christ's "real presence" in the sacrament such that partaking results in Christ abiding in us and we in Him (John 6:56).   That is precisely why Christ uses crude language like "real food," "real drink," and "eat me" and why Paul warns that eating the sacrament without "discerning the body" is punishable by illness and even death.  No merely symbolic act would incur such punishment; and I repeat: if Jesus intended simple symbolism here, he could have explained that and prevented most of His disciples from deserting Him.  In fact, He meant a reenactment that involved His real presence. 

 

 

 

 

 

[David1701]

8 hours ago, Deadworm said:

 

Nothing to see here.

[Fidei Defensor]

On 8/14/2020 at 5:22 PM, David1701 said:

The above is how your post shows up, when I use the quote function to reply to it, without correcting your formatting.  Please fix your formatting...

Sharing in fellowship is not a re-enactment.  That is not rocket science to understand.

I think you mean Col. 1:24.

Col. 1:24 (WEB) Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and fill up on my part that which is lacking of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body’s sake, which is the assembly;

I'm sure that you are aware that there are different interpretations of this difficult verse.  My view is that it refers to the afflictions Paul suffered in his flesh (referred to as the "afflictions of Christ", because we are His body on earth).  In other words, God had purposes to fulfil for the assembly, through Paul's sufferings, and those sufferings were, as yet, incomplete (hence "lacking"). 

This is not a re-enactment of the cross, for several reasons, one of which is that what Christ suffered on the cross accomplished everything that it was intended to accomplish; it was a one-off, so that any re-enactment would be to deny that fact and would be blasphemous.

I didn't duck; but it's wearisome to answer every one of your numerous blunders.

As I've already pointed out, any re-enactment of the cross would be blasphemous.

Heb. 6:6 (WEB) and then fell away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance; seeing they crucify the Son of God for themselves again, and put him to open shame.

The sense in which they are crucifying the Son of God again, is in blasphemously justifying those who crucified him in the first place.  They do this by rejecting the Lord, having known about him and his teachings.

The Mass is one of the most evil practices ever devised by man.  It makes an idol out of a wafer, which is paraded around in a monstrance, for the idolaters to worship.  This is mocking Christ to the uttermost and the poor, gullible congregants don't even realise it.

This blasphemous "bloodless sacrifice", re-enacts that which was once and for all, thus denying that the Lord accomplished eternal redemption, by that one act.

A crucifix is a reminder of the fact that the Mass keeps Christ on the cross, over and over and over and over again.  Anyway, we are told to carry our cross, not wear it.

A sign (as in "significance") is a perceptible indication of something not immediately apparent.  That is EXACTLY what the memorial of the Lord's Supper (Communion) is.  It is a SIGN, pointing to the reality of what Christ accomplished on the cross.

Certainly the Lord will be present in the Communion service, just as he is present in praise and in the Holy Spirit-led preaching of the word; but that is nothing to do with the wafer and wine and everything to do with the hearts of the people.

"Transubstantiation means the change of the whole substance of bread into the substance of the Body of Christ and of the whole substance of wine into the substance of his Blood. This change is brought about in the eucharistic prayer through the efficacy of the word of Christ and by the action of the Holy Spirit. However, the outward characteristics of bread and wine, that is the “eucharistic species”, remain unaltered."

https://www.vatican.va/archive/compendium_ccc/documents/archive_2005_compendium-ccc_en.html#The sacraments of Christian initiation

Q.E.D.

What do you do with Christ’s words: 

“So Jesus said again, “I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you cannot have eternal life within you. But anyone who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise that person at the last day. For my flesh is true (literal) food, and my blood is true (literal) drink.  Anyone who eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in him.57 I live because of the living Father who sent me; in the same way, anyone who feeds on me will live because of me. I am the true bread that came down from heaven. Anyone who eats this bread will not die as your ancestors did (even though they ate the manna) but will live forever.” (John 7:53-58, NLT) 

[David1701]

24 minutes ago, Fidei Defensor said:

What do you do with Christ’s words: 

“So Jesus said again, “I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you cannot have eternal life within you. But anyone who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise that person at the last day. For my flesh is true (literal) food, and my blood is true (literal) drink.  Anyone who eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in him.57 I live because of the living Father who sent me; in the same way, anyone who feeds on me will live because of me. I am the true bread that came down from heaven. Anyone who eats this bread will not die as your ancestors did (even though they ate the manna) but will live forever.” (John 7:53-58, NLT) 

I treat them in the manner in which they were intended (figurative language).

[Fidei Defensor]

1 hour ago, David1701 said:

I treat them in the manner in which they were intended (figurative language).

Can you prove its figurative? With Scripture? 

[David1701]

19 hours ago, Fidei Defensor said:

Can you prove its figurative? With Scripture? 

Yes.  John 7:53-58 was spoken before Jesus went to the cross.  He was in his body and it had not been broken on the cross yet.  The language is figurative.