Tongues?

[Justin Adams]

Cor 14:18 

18  I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you. 

[Paul James]

39 minutes ago, Episcopius said:

Certainly true, Paul James.

In college I was a regular at a Coffeehouse where the Director was a Cessationist. A couple of others and I were Charismatics - I use the term usually referring to those who stayed within their own denomination after recieving the gift of Tongues rather than joing a Pentecostal denomination, or Assembly of God. Anyway, myself and two other charismatics had given our word to the Director that in witnessing to those  in the coffeehouse that we would NOT get into the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. But the director wanted more than our word NOT to teach the Baptism - he wanted us to swallow the deal that THE PERFECT was the finished New Testament.

The Director had just obtained a LEATHER BIBLE COVER and was showing it to everyone - a grand thing - 3 little belt loop thingies kept it fastened - everyone ooohed and ahhed over the special Bible cover...

We were in a Staff Meeting prior to the coffeehouse being open to those from the outside - the Director seemed determined to get across to ME that THE PERFECT was the Bible.

"And what came when Tongues PASSED AWAY?" ( he was about to RAM IT HOME ) 

"THIS!!" He shouted - shoving his bible in my face...

Rick sitting next to me quickly quipped "What? Your Leather Bible Cover?" and my shoulders shook with suppressed laughter as the staff meeting was quickly dismissed without prayer. Rick, myself and one other charismatic somehow made it upstairs to a study room and just FELL ABOUT THE PLACE, dying laughing. We tried to straighten up - in a few minutes the people would come in to the coffeehouse - we were laughing so hard that tears rolled down our cheeks and splashed onto our shirts. Just when we were almost normal, someone made a gesture like the Director shoving his bible in my face, and saying THE PERFECT!

I never laughed so hard in my life.

You never know...he might try pushing his Bible cover into Jesus' face at the judgment!

[Paul James]

26 minutes ago, Duck said:

But you did. Pauls baptism in acts doesn’t mention him speaking in tongues.

It doesn't take a very high IQ to know that Paul spoke in tongues when he was baptised with the Holy Spirit.

[Duck]

3 hours ago, Paul James said:

It doesn't take a very high IQ to know that Paul spoke in tongues when he was baptised with the Holy Spirit.

[enoob57]

5 hours ago, Paul James said:

I am not a Charismatic.  I am a Presbyterian.  I don't care what happens in the Charismatic movement.  I care what the Holy Spirit makes known to me.  He does not say anything to me that is not consistent with written Scripture.

God has written it down and that is what objective means Paul as everyone can come to the same source and evaluate objectively from that one source... subjective is when you hear from and no one else can evaluate as it is of personal experience subjectively received... You seem to have this confused  

My quandary in this is- God has objectively written one source for all to come to~ then why would He subjectively speak personally to you what He has objectively given? God is concerned about having a foundation for which all people in all times can build off of and that is The Written Word of God...

5 hours ago, Paul James said:

But I don't read into Scripture that is not there.   Nowhere does the Scripture say that the gifts of the Holy Spirit, including the gift of tongues is limited to the Apostolic Age, and the Scripture makes no mention of a future canon of Scripture.  To say that the Perfect is the canon of Scripture is based on eisegesis - reading things into Scripture that are not there.

You seem to be unable to properly frame what I write... the gifts of The Holy Spirit are in effect for today just not the sign gifts: The power Jesus did to verify Himself and His disciples is not seen today... how do I know this objectively from Scripture~ cause even Jesus' and His disciples enemies could not deny the miraculous events happening right before their eyes... we do not see this today or this discussion would not be! His enemies had to explain away the power seen as from the devil as today the miraculous sign gifts are just not there...

5 hours ago, Paul James said:

In actual fact, your Cessationist view is your own subjective view based on what you have been taught, and is nowhere supported by Scripture at all.  Cessationist doctrine was coined by a liberal theologian in the 19th Century who heard non-Biblical voices in his mind, ignoring clear Church history that shows without doubt that the supernatural gifts of the Spirit declined when the church adopted paganism and turned from holiness and Christ-centred religious observance and replaced the reality of the Holy Spirit with the authority of self-appointed bishops, and paganistic ritual and ceremony.

I hope we got the objective and subject understanding down now? One more time does God's Word say tongues will cease?
1 Cor 13:8
8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
KJV
You see objectively we can say that 'IS' what God 'IS' saying ... subjectively you may say something else but objectively you can not! The when they cease is really a moot point the objective fact is that they will cease... so the objective conclusion is God Who 'IS' eternal and we born of s/Spirit are thus eternal with God why should we make such a fuss over that which God 'IS' ceasing

[enoob57]

3 hours ago, Paul James said:

It doesn't take a very high IQ to know that Paul spoke in tongues when he was baptised with the Holy Spirit.

Could you please show me in the Word of God... I seem to have a low IQ  

[enoob57]

4 hours ago, Duck said:

But you did. Pauls baptism in acts doesn’t mention him speaking in tongues.

 

4 hours ago, Justin Adams said:

Cor 14:18 

18  I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you. 

clearly the tenets of this is at baptism not that Paul did not speak in tongues... come on!

[Justin Adams]

7 minutes ago, enoob57 said:

clearly the tenets of this is at baptism not that Paul did not speak in tongues... come on!

Which baptism is that?

 

[enoob57]

Just now, Justin Adams said:

Which baptism is that?

 

there is only one as Scripture clearly states:
 

Eph 4:3-6

3 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.

4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
KJV
 

[Justin Adams]

6 minutes ago, enoob57 said:

there is only one as Scripture clearly states:

Sorry but no. Yeshua says He will baptize with fire.

Matthew 13:8 says "Bear fruit in keeping with repentance." John then goes on to say that he baptised with water for repentance, but the one who is coming after Him (that is Jesus); will baptise with the Holy Spirit and fire. There are the two separate baptisms mentioned - the baptism of the Holy Spirit, and the baptism of fire.

"He who is coming after me" was referring to Jesus Christ. So John was saying that he was baptizing with water and Jesus would (in the future) baptize with the Holy Spirit and with fire. This did not mean that Jesus would abolish and replace water baptism.

 

Edited January 29, 2021 by Justin Adams