When is the rapture?

[Moby]

Good morning Brethren!

Brother "Alive" sent me over here to ask this question I posted in "Worthy Welcome".

I have been looking for a good explanation on the timing of the rapture as there seems to be so much dissension out there among the brethren as to whether it happens before 7 years of tribulation, 3.5 years into the tribulation, or after the tribulation.

I am so tired of opening link after link where the teachers give nothing more than their opinions on when this event happens with the same verses that really have nothing to do with the timing of the rapture before, during, or after the tribulation.

When I searched for "the rapture is after the tribulation" this link came up on the first page:

https://sumofthyword.com/2016/10/04/the-rapture-of-the-church-is-after-the-tribulation/

In all of my searches on the subject of the rapture, this is the first link that provides multitudes of scripture to prove there is another full year after the 7 years of tribulation that the author says is when the "day of the Lord" takes place.

Has anyone here ever heard of this teaching? I would have copied and pasted the contents of the link here but it is just too voluminous with scripture so could someone with a hunger of this topic take a look at it so we can discuss it as it certainly has my attention?

All the scriptures in that link fit nicely into this timeline which makes me even more convinced this is truth:

I<---------------Tribulation------------->I<-----------Great Tribulation---------------->I<----------------------1 year of Wrath(365 days)------------------>I

I<---------------1260 days------------->I<----------------1290 days------------------->I<-------------45 days------->I<-----------320 days----------------->I

Covenant      seals 2-4                midst                  seals 5 & 6                 7th seal           Trumps 2-7                         7 bowls                   Jesus

with                 opened            Abomination              opened                      marks            blown during                        poured                  returns

many                                        of Desolation                                                End of          1st~45 days of                    in heaven               to earth

starts                                              set up                                                     7 years          wrath 7th & last                  while church         Rev ch19

Tribulation                                                                                                   1st Trump           trump calls                       at marriage

1st Seal                                                                                                           starts             church home                        supper

opened                                                                                                            wrath

Edited September 7, 2020 by Moby

[Last Daze]

10 minutes ago, Moby said:

I have been looking for a good explanation on the timing of the rapture as there seems to be so much dissension out there among the brethren as to whether it happens before 7 years of tribulation, 3.5 years into the tribulation, or after the tribulation.

The "rapture" is at the last trumpet, the trumpet of God.  It is associated with a resurrection which takes place on the last day.

• For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.  Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.  1 Thess 4:16-17
• For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.  John 6:40

We know when this takes place based on the timing of the following passage:

Then the Lord will appear over them,
And His arrow will go forth like lightning;
And the Lord God will blow the trumpet,
And will march in the storm winds of the south.
The Lord of hosts will defend them.
And they will devour and trample on the sling stones;
And they will drink and be boisterous as with wine;
And they will be filled like a sacrificial basin,
Drenched like the corners of the altar.
And the Lord their God will save them in that day
As the flock of His people;
For they are as the stones of a crown,
Sparkling in His land.    Zechariah 9:14-16

The rapture takes place on the last day when the trumpet of God sounds.  Believers are raised immortal and Israel is saved in that day.  It really is that simple.

[Moby]

Amen brother "Last Daze"! I agree that it will be the "last day" which the author uses all the scriptures you just posted along with many others to prove "that day" is a year that commences immediately after the 7 years of tribulation with much scripture.

[missmuffet]

Question: "When is the Rapture going to occur in relation to the Tribulation?"

Answer: The timing of the rapture in relation to the tribulation is one of the most controversial issues in the church today. The three primary views are pre-tribulational (the rapture occurs before the tribulation), mid-tribulational (the rapture occurs at or near the mid-point of the tribulation), and post-tribulational (the rapture occurs at the end of the tribulation). A fourth view, commonly known as pre-wrath, is a slight modification of the mid-tribulational position.
First, it is important to recognize the purpose of the tribulation. According to Daniel 9:27, there is a seventieth “seven” (seven years) that is still yet to come. Daniel’s entire prophecy of the seventy sevens (Daniel 9:20-27) is speaking of the nation of Israel. It is a time period in which God focuses His attention especially on Israel. The seventieth seven, the tribulation, must also be a time when God deals specifically with Israel. While this does not necessarily indicate that the church could not also be present, it does bring into question why the church would need to be on the earth during that time.

The primary Scripture passage on the rapture is 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18. It states that all living believers, along with all believers who have died, will meet the Lord Jesus in the air and will be with Him forever. The rapture is God’s removing of His people from the earth. A few verses later, in 1 Thessalonians 5:9, Paul says, “For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ.” The book of Revelation, which deals primarily with the time period of the tribulation, is a prophetic message of how God will pour out His wrath upon the earth during the tribulation. It seems inconsistent for God to promise believers that they will not suffer wrath and then leave them on the earth to suffer through the wrath of the tribulation. The fact that God promises to deliver Christians from wrath shortly after promising to remove His people from the earth seems to link those two events together.

Another crucial passage on the timing of the rapture is Revelation 3:10, in which Christ promises to deliver believers from the “hour of trial” that is going to come upon the earth. This could mean two things. Either Christ will protect believers in the midst of the trials, or He will deliver believers out of the trials. Both are valid meanings of the Greek word translated “from.” However, it is important to recognize what believers are promised to be kept from. It is not just the trial, but the “hour” of trial. Christ is promising to keep believers from the very time period that contains the trials, namely the tribulation. The purpose of the tribulation, the purpose of the rapture, the meaning of 1 Thessalonians 5:9, and the interpretation of Revelation 3:10 all give clear support to the pre-tribulational position. If the Bible is interpreted literally and consistently, the pre-tribulational position is the most biblically-based interpretation.

https://www.gotquestions.org/rapture-tribulation.html

 

Edited August 22, 2020 by missmuffet

[John n Claudia]

47 minutes ago, missmuffet said:

First, it is important to recognize the purpose of the tribulation. According to Daniel 9:27, there is a seventieth “seven” (seven years) that is still yet to come. Daniel’s entire prophecy of the seventy sevens (Daniel 9:20-27) is speaking of the nation of Israel.

When I read Daniel's prophecy, I see that the first 69 weeks are all about the time the Jews will need to wait until the coming of the Messiah.  However, verse 26 states that after the 62 weeks, the Messiah will be cut off and have nothing.  The next sentence then says that the people of a prince yet to come will destroy the city and the sanctuary, but his end will come with a flood.  The 70'th week is not about the Jewish people, but rather it is all about the people of a prince yet to come.  This prince is the Antichrist and this prophecy is actually saying that the Antichrist will be active during the last seven years before Jesus returns.  The first half of the week, the Antichrist will be consolidating his power, and this will be completed with the abomination that causes desolation, 30 days before the halfway point of the seven years.  This is why Daniel tells us in Daniel 9:27 that the Antichrist conquers Jerusalem and puts a stop to the sacrifice and daily offering.  We also know that this is when half of the Jews who did not escape in time will go into concentration camps scattered about the empire of the Antichrist and the other half will remain captive in Jerusalem (Zechariah 14:2).

With regard to Revelation 3:10 saying that Jesus will keep the church from the time of trial, this is addressed only to the church at Philadelphia.  The other six churches that received letters did not get this promise and there are many other churches scattered all over the world that did not even receive a letter.  How can anyone be sure that they are a member of the church at Philadelphia so that they can claim this promise?

I do agree with all of your references saying that those who are found faithful will not experience the Wrath of God.  However, as we saw in Daniel, the last seven years before Jesus returns are the time of the Antichrist, not the time of the Wrath of God.  There are many arguments for a pre-tribulation, mid-tribulation, post-tribulation and pre-wrath rapture.  Every one of these argument for all four positions has flaws.  While there is scripture that supports that view, there are other passages that contradict it.  As an example of a passage that contradicts the pre-tribulation rapture theory, we need to look at the story of the seven trumpets.  In Revelation 10:7, we are told that with the blowing of the seventh trumpet, the secret/hidden plan of God will come to an end.  When we then look at Ephesians 1:9 and 3:9 - 10, we see that this secret/hidden plan of God is the Church.  This means that the Church, the people who have placed their faith in the Lord Jesus will be around until they are raptured just before the seventh trumpet is sounded.

It is because of this that I personally believe in a post-tribulation rapture that occurs at the end of the seven years of the Antichrist.  After this, the church meets Christ in the air and join in with the angels in order to pour out the Wrath of God (Revelation 18:6 - 8) during the next 45 days.  Within the Book of Revelation, the timing of the rapture occurs with the end of the seventh church (Revelation 4:1), the opening of the seventh seal (Revelation 7:14), the sounding of the seventh trumpet (Revelation 11:12), the pouring of the seventh bowl (Revelation 16:17) and the appearance of the angel with authority (Revelation 18:4).

 

[missmuffet]

21 hours ago, John n Claudia said:

When I read Daniel's prophecy, I see that the first 69 weeks are all about the time the Jews will need to wait until the coming of the Messiah.  However, verse 26 states that after the 62 weeks, the Messiah will be cut off and have nothing.  The next sentence then says that the people of a prince yet to come will destroy the city and the sanctuary, but his end will come with a flood.  The 70'th week is not about the Jewish people, but rather it is all about the people of a prince yet to come.  This prince is the Antichrist and this prophecy is actually saying that the Antichrist will be active during the last seven years before Jesus returns.  The first half of the week, the Antichrist will be consolidating his power, and this will be completed with the abomination that causes desolation, 30 days before the halfway point of the seven years.  This is why Daniel tells us in Daniel 9:27 that the Antichrist conquers Jerusalem and puts a stop to the sacrifice and daily offering.  We also know that this is when half of the Jews who did not escape in time will go into concentration camps scattered about the empire of the Antichrist and the other half will remain captive in Jerusalem (Zechariah 14:2).

With regard to Revelation 3:10 saying that Jesus will keep the church from the time of trial, this is addressed only to the church at Philadelphia.  The other six churches that received letters did not get this promise and there are many other churches scattered all over the world that did not even receive a letter.  How can anyone be sure that they are a member of the church at Philadelphia so that they can claim this promise?

I do agree with all of your references saying that those who are found faithful will not experience the Wrath of God.  However, as we saw in Daniel, the last seven years before Jesus returns are the time of the Antichrist, not the time of the Wrath of God.  There are many arguments for a pre-tribulation, mid-tribulation, post-tribulation and pre-wrath rapture.  Every one of these argument for all four positions has flaws.  While there is scripture that supports that view, there are other passages that contradict it.  As an example of a passage that contradicts the pre-tribulation rapture theory, we need to look at the story of the seven trumpets.  In Revelation 10:7, we are told that with the blowing of the seventh trumpet, the secret/hidden plan of God will come to an end.  When we then look at Ephesians 1:9 and 3:9 - 10, we see that this secret/hidden plan of God is the Church.  This means that the Church, the people who have placed their faith in the Lord Jesus will be around until they are raptured just before the seventh trumpet is sounded.

It is because of this that I personally believe in a post-tribulation rapture that occurs at the end of the seven years of the Antichrist.  After this, the church meets Christ in the air and join in with the angels in order to pour out the Wrath of God (Revelation 18:6 - 8) during the next 45 days.  Within the Book of Revelation, the timing of the rapture occurs with the end of the seventh church (Revelation 4:1), the opening of the seventh seal (Revelation 7:14), the sounding of the seventh trumpet (Revelation 11:12), the pouring of the seventh bowl (Revelation 16:17) and the appearance of the angel with authority (Revelation 18:4).

 

Time will tell.

[Moby]

2 minutes ago, missmuffet said:

Time will tell.

Thank you Miss Muffet for responding to my post with the "got questions" link. I am curious if you took the time to read this link as the author dealt with every scripture your link used?:

https://sumofthyword.com/2016/10/04/the-rapture-of-the-church-is-after-the-tribulation/

The only reason I ask is because every response I have gotten so far appears to prove they could not have read the link which after I have read now a couple of times seems to be bullet proof.

[Moby]

22 hours ago, John n Claudia said:

When I read Daniel's prophecy, I see that the first 69 weeks are all about the time the Jews will need to wait until the coming of the Messiah.  However, verse 26 states that after the 62 weeks, the Messiah will be cut off and have nothing.  The next sentence then says that the people of a prince yet to come will destroy the city and the sanctuary, but his end will come with a flood.  The 70'th week is not about the Jewish people, but rather it is all about the people of a prince yet to come.  This prince is the Antichrist and this prophecy is actually saying that the Antichrist will be active during the last seven years before Jesus returns.  The first half of the week, the Antichrist will be consolidating his power, and this will be completed with the abomination that causes desolation, 30 days before the halfway point of the seven years.  This is why Daniel tells us in Daniel 9:27 that the Antichrist conquers Jerusalem and puts a stop to the sacrifice and daily offering.  We also know that this is when half of the Jews who did not escape in time will go into concentration camps scattered about the empire of the Antichrist and the other half will remain captive in Jerusalem (Zechariah 14:2).

With regard to Revelation 3:10 saying that Jesus will keep the church from the time of trial, this is addressed only to the church at Philadelphia.  The other six churches that received letters did not get this promise and there are many other churches scattered all over the world that did not even receive a letter.  How can anyone be sure that they are a member of the church at Philadelphia so that they can claim this promise?

I do agree with all of your references saying that those who are found faithful will not experience the Wrath of God.  However, as we saw in Daniel, the last seven years before Jesus returns are the time of the Antichrist, not the time of the Wrath of God.  There are many arguments for a pre-tribulation, mid-tribulation, post-tribulation and pre-wrath rapture.  Every one of these argument for all four positions has flaws.  While there is scripture that supports that view, there are other passages that contradict it.  As an example of a passage that contradicts the pre-tribulation rapture theory, we need to look at the story of the seven trumpets.  In Revelation 10:7, we are told that with the blowing of the seventh trumpet, the secret/hidden plan of God will come to an end.  When we then look at Ephesians 1:9 and 3:9 - 10, we see that this secret/hidden plan of God is the Church.  This means that the Church, the people who have placed their faith in the Lord Jesus will be around until they are raptured just before the seventh trumpet is sounded.

It is because of this that I personally believe in a post-tribulation rapture that occurs at the end of the seven years of the Antichrist.  After this, the church meets Christ in the air and join in with the angels in order to pour out the Wrath of God (Revelation 18:6 - 8) during the next 45 days.  Within the Book of Revelation, the timing of the rapture occurs with the end of the seventh church (Revelation 4:1), the opening of the seventh seal (Revelation 7:14), the sounding of the seventh trumpet (Revelation 11:12), the pouring of the seventh bowl (Revelation 16:17) and the appearance of the angel with authority (Revelation 18:4).

 

 

Hi John n Claudia!

Did you get a chance to read this link as I think you would wholeheartedly agree with the author as your post leans heavily toward his thesis:

https://sumofthyword.com/2016/10/04/the-rapture-of-the-church-is-after-the-tribulation/

[John n Claudia]

8 minutes ago, Moby said:

Did you get a chance to read this link

Moby,

I have not seen this before, and after following the link noticed that it is an extremely long lesson.  I will take some time to study this, but i wanted to thank you for forwarding this on.

[Shilohsfoal]

According to Daniel, his people will be delivered at a time of great tribulation, the likes of which the world has never seen. At that time many who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake. 

 

https://biblehub.com/daniel/12-1.htm

https://biblehub.com/daniel/12-2.htm

 

I think it safe to say, Daniel would not agree the resurrection would take place a full year after the tribulation had ended. Insted it appears the resurrection takes place 42 months after the persecution of the saints in Israel had began and at a time of great tribulation. . I don't believe anyone why precede this resurrection. 

Edited August 23, 2020 by Shilohsfoal