2 Thessalonians 2:10-12

[luigi]

What is the truth so many will deny to instead choose a lying delusion so that they may take pleasure in unrighteousness?

2 Thessalonians 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 12  That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. And are you in denial of the truth that the Lord makes very obvious today with signs in the heavens and on the earth?

Edited August 22, 2020 by luigi

[John n Claudia]

Luigi,

There are many truths that people will deny in the very last days before Jesus returns.  We are seeing this now and it will continue to get worse until Jesus does finally come back.

I while back I was in a Bible study and one person had very strong beliefs about the freedom he was given in Christ.  He kept telling the group that Christ was all about freedom.  When I pointed out passages like Romans 6:1 - 2 "What shall we say then, shall we continue in sin that grace may abound?  God forbid!  How can we who have died to sin still live in it?", he would get flustered and start shouting that he was given freedom in Christ.  On the last day he participated in the study, he had finally had enough of the corrections and blew his top.  He rattled of a string of expletives and f-bombs that would make a sailor blush and then finished by shouting "Thank you God, that I have the freedom to say all this knowing that you have reserved a place in heaven for me."

God is not all about freedom.  In fact He tells us that we are slaves and the only freedom we have is that we can choose our owner.  If we choose Satan as our owner, we will live for the day looking to satisfy the flesh and all of its cravings.  If we choose God as our owner, we will live holy lives for Him, shining our light before men so that they will give glory to God.

I personally believe that the lying delusion is what I described above.  People have convinced themselves that they only need to say some magic words and then their sins will be forgiven and they will have eternal life.  They do not have to live holy lives or develop a relationship with God.  There is no need to forgive others, give to charity or even pray.  In fact, they do not have to change any of their words, deeds or thoughts, but can continue living just as they were living before they "accepted Jesus as their Lord and Master".  In fact, they can even act more wickedly because Jesus forgave all of their sins no matter how bad they become.

As a little side note, I read an article that an indigenous tribe in Papua New Guinea received the Gospel for the very first time (https://www.thenewcivilrightsmovement.com/2020/08/colonizing-in-the-name-of-jesus-missionary-blasted-for-bragging-about-converting-indigenous-people-to-christianity).  The Bible tells us that the Bible will be preached to all men and then Jesus will come.  What if this is the very last group of people who have never heard the Gospel.  If you read the article and comments, you will see how the missionaries were condemned for their work.  This tells me that we are indeed close to the end.  Satan knows his time is short and he is attacking the Church more and more vociferously.

[luigi]

Good morning John n Claudia, If we are well read in the Word, we are then to rightly divide the Word in order to ascertain details on events. The Lord provides much cross referencing details throughout both the Old and New Testaments about the end times. The lying delusion people will choose over truth in the end times so that they may continue to take pleasure in unrighteousness is the power the devil will provide the beast that will have everyone who is not written in the lambs book of life in adoration of the dragon and the beast and his mouth.

Revelation 13:4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

Revelation 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

[John n Claudia]

Luigi,

I think that we are seeing two sides of the same coin.  I believe that the lie about our freedom to continue living in sin and filth while claiming the righteousness of Jesus is the lie today that will be leveraged once the man of perdition comes to get people to worship him.  In other words, because people today believe their freedom in Christ is the most important aspect of Christianity, when the Antichrist comes, it is these same people who will be misled into believing that he is God and worshiping him. 

Satan does not start this deception at the time of the abomination, but rather he has been working hard for the past 2000 years to get people to believe it.

Edited August 23, 2020 by John n Claudia
Added last sentence

[luigi]

12 minutes ago, John n Claudia said:

Luigi,

I think that we are seeing two sides of the same coin.  I believe that the lie about our freedom to continue living in sin and filth while claiming the righteousness of Jesus is the lie today that will be leveraged once the man of perdition comes to get people to worship him.  In other words, because people today believe their freedom in Christ is the most important aspect of Christianity, when the Antichrist comes, it is these same people who will be misled into believing that he is God and worshiping him. 

Satan does not start this deception at the time of the abomination, but rather he has been working hard for the past 2000 years to get people to believe it.

I agree with you about supposed believers who think to continue living in sin while claiming the righteousness of Jesus is a lie. The Word clearly tells us that we are to overcome our carnal natures in order to inherit the crown. I am therefore not in the OSAS camp. The whole world who will choose to believe the lying delusion over the truth, however, represent more than just the circa 2 billion people who claim faith in Christ, and therefore is other than the OSAS perspective. The delusion people will voluntarily choose over the truth is in relation to the power the dragon will provide the beast. This power from the sea is another description for the bottomless pit from which the beast shall ascend in Revelation 9. And the beast's ascension from the bottomless pit (the sea in Revelation 13), comes in after 1/3 of earth's natural resources have been destroyed in Revelation 8. In Revelation 9:20, the Lord attributes the plagues in chapters 8 and 9 to the love mankind has for the things his hands produce. Do we see any of the plagues in Revelation 8 having commenced? Yes we are.

Revelation 9:20 And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:

 

 

And yes, I also agree with you that most OSAS believers who obviously have very little root in the Word will be deceived by the Antichrist.

[John n Claudia]

22 minutes ago, luigi said:

I agree with you about supposed believers who think to continue living in sin while claiming the righteousness of Jesus is a lie. The Word clearly tells us that we are to overcome our carnal natures in order to inherit the crown. I am therefore not in the OSAS camp.

Luigi,

 

I really hate to be nit-picky about this and we are truly on the same page regarding OSAS.  However, the problem with the OSAS theory is not that once we are saved, we are always saved.  The problem is that the OSAS crowd has confused what it means to be saved with what it means to be born again.

Being born again occurs at the beginning of our walk with Jesus.  We are not saved at this time, just born again.  We are saved at the end of our walk with Jesus, either at our physical death or at the rapture.  Once we see this, then we can understand that once we are saved we will always be saved because being saved means that we have already completed our race and once that has happened, nobody will be able to pluck us out of Jesus' hand.  Because of this, when I talk to people about our faith, I ask if they are born again and never ask if they are saved.  At this time they may be walking born again and with the Lord and on their way to being saved, but nobody physically alive today is saved.  The reason that God was able to write a person's name in the Book of Life before they were even born is because God knows how everything will end and not because He saved someone the moment they uttered some magic words claiming the righteousness of Christ.

This is all part of the lying delusion that started this post.  Satan has been busy corrupting definitions in order to propagate really bad theology.  Once we understand what is going on, we can then correct the definitions and all of the verses in the Bible agree with each other and present a uniform theology that leads us to righteousness.

[luigi]

5 minutes ago, John n Claudia said:

Luigi,

 

I really hate to be nit-picky about this and we are truly on the same page regarding OSAS.  However, the problem with the OSAS theory is not that once we are saved, we are always saved.  The problem is that the OSAS crowd has confused what it means to be saved with what it means to be born again.

Being born again occurs at the beginning of our walk with Jesus.  We are not saved at this time, just born again.  We are saved at the end of our walk with Jesus, either at our physical death or at the rapture.  Once we see this, then we can understand that once we are saved we will always be saved because being saved means that we have already completed our race and once that has happened, nobody will be able to pluck us out of Jesus' hand.  Because of this, when I talk to people about our faith, I ask if they are born again and never ask if they are saved.  At this time they may be walking born again and with the Lord and on their way to being saved, but nobody physically alive today is saved.  The reason that God was able to write a person's name in the Book of Life before they were even born is because God knows how everything will end and not because He saved someone the moment they uttered some magic words claiming the righteousness of Christ.

This is all part of the lying delusion that started this post.  Satan has been busy corrupting definitions in order to propagate really bad theology.  Once we understand what is going on, we can then correct the definitions and all of the verses in the Bible agree with each other and present a uniform theology that leads us to righteousness.

Like I said previously, I agree with you that the OSAS perspective as is widely understood is in error. I, however, also believe the many who claim to be born again, but continue to sin carnally, is an unfounded claim. Being born again to me means that I now have a new perspective, with new spiritual desires, which are contrary to my previous perspectives and carnal desires. If therefore, I claim to be born again spiritually, but I continue to indulge in my former carnal inclinations, I am then only fooling myself into my being born again spiritually.

I have to overcome my carnal inclinations in order to honestly claim my being born again spiritually.

[John n Claudia]

Luigi,

This is exactly correct.  It is wonderful that the Holy Spirit is giving you this insight and I pray that we both continue growing in the Lord in strength and wisdom.

[luigi]

2 hours ago, John n Claudia said:

Luigi,

This is exactly correct.  It is wonderful that the Holy Spirit is giving you this insight and I pray that we both continue growing in the Lord in strength and wisdom.

Amen brother, I wish the same illumination for the both of us from the Holy Spirit.

[luigi]

On 8/22/2020 at 4:56 PM, luigi said:

What is the truth so many will deny to instead choose a lying delusion so that they may take pleasure in unrighteousness?

2 Thessalonians 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 12  That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. And are you in denial of the truth that the Lord makes very obvious today with signs in the heavens and on the earth?

Here is another question rephrased: What is the lie so many will choose over the truth, so that they may take pleasure in unrighteousness?

Edited September 13, 2020 by luigi