Tongues and prophesying...

[Deadworm]

I was responding to her disrespectful sarcasm, combined with her expressed refusal to state her position.  If you don't want to respond, then don't respond.  Perhaps I was a bit harsh.  The doctrine that speaking in tongues is a necessarey condition for salvation is one of the most absurd heresies.  Remember, I'm just clarifying the classic Pentecostal position against those who would distort it in the interests of refuting it.

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Deadworm said:

I was responding to her disrespectful sarcasm, combined with her expressed refusal to state her position.  If you don't want to respond, then don't respond.  Perhaps I was a bit harsh.  The doctrine that speaking in tongues is a necessarey condition for salvation is one of the most absurd heresies.  Remember, I'm just clarifying the classic Pentecostal position against those who would distort it in the interests of refuting it.

You know quite well that your first post in this thread would be taken as if you didn't think someone is really saved if the don't speak in tongues.  My guess is you were baiting waiting for someone like @leah777 to respond the way she did.

I agree with her you made it sound like you supported this idea.  Only later do you mention you don't.  You were deceiving people. 

 

[leah777]

10 hours ago, Deadworm said:

I was responding to her disrespectful sarcasm, combined with her expressed refusal to state her position.  If you don't want to respond, then don't respond.  Perhaps I was a bit harsh.  The doctrine that speaking in tongues is a necessarey condition for salvation is one of the most absurd heresies.  Remember, I'm just clarifying the classic Pentecostal position against those who would distort it in the interests of refuting it.

Why do you assume sarcasm? English is not my first language. I am not compelled to share my position on anything. 

Your post that I replied to does not indicate you are not saying what you believe. Perhaps you phrased badly.

You were hostile to me right away. No reason for me to share with aggressive responses like yours.

Edited August 26, 2020 by leah777
Clarification

[leah777]

19 hours ago, Deadworm said:

The doctrine that tongues is THE initial evidence of Spirit baptism is based on 3 facts:                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 (1) In the Book of Acts new believes are baptized in the Spirit 4 times.  In 3 of the 4 cases the initial evidence of this baptism is speaking in tongues.  In the 4th case, the initial evidence is not specified, but when Simon the Magician sees what happens, he offers Peter money to bestow on him the power of imparting the experience.  If that inference is correct, then that's 4 for 4--a pattern sufficient  to establish the doctrine.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 (2) In Mark 16:17 the risen Jesus identities speaking in tongues as the 2nd sign of the true believer.                                                                                                                                                    (3) In 1 Corinthians Paul says he wants everyone to speak in tongues and thanks God that he speaks in tongues more than anyone else (14:5, 18).  This wish and Paul's reinforcing example are allegedly based on the doctrine of tongues as the initial evidence of Spirit baptism.

 

You say "facts"

Nothing in this post to say you don't believe this. 

 

Edited August 26, 2020 by leah777

[Guest]

1 hour ago, leah777 said:

You say "facts"

Nothing in this post to say you don't believe this. 

 

He was baiting us and we took his bait.

[leah777]

2 hours ago, ChickenCoop said:

He was baiting us and we took his bait.

? Baiting us how? To provoke unhappy reaction? If so, that is not sounding kind.

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, leah777 said:

? Baiting us how? To provoke unhappy reaction? If so, that is not sounding kind.

Unfortunately it does happen. 

[Deadworm]

5 hours ago, leah777 said:

You say "facts"

Nothing in this post to say you don't believe this. 

 

If you're going to make a snide remark about a post, then at least extend the courtesy of reading your target's next post!  I repeat that post:

"btw, I never said I accept the Pentecostal position on tongues as the initial evidence of Spirit baptism.  I'm just articulating THEIR position, just as I defend Catholicism here, despite my disagreements with aspects of it, simply because evangelicals seem to hate Catholics so much that they are unwilling even to try to understand how an informed Catholic might defend her position biblically.  So in the interest of fair play and compassionate listening I feel compelled to play Devil's Advocate on many denominational differences."

You seem to presume that the gifts the Holy Spirit has to offer are not worth pursuing.   My youthful experience of speaking in tongues at age 16 was a hundred times more awesome an experience of love, sweetness, and intimate connection with Christ than I have ever experienced before or since.  I was enveloped by wave after wave of liquid love, each more intense than the last.  One spectator just sat in that darkened amphitheater and stared because, as she would later say, "Your face was glowing in the dark."  A Lutheran pastor ultimately approached me and said he didn't believe in tongues.  I didn't argue with him; I just touched him gently on the forehead and he he exploded in other tongues, overpowered by the Spirit.   My mind was so transformed by that experience that I got the highest GPA in my province and received several scholarships as a result.  What I'm trying to say, bluntly put, is that the Holy Spirit doesn't offer junk!  If Paul can say he wants us all to speak in tongues and thanks God that he speaks in tongues more than anyone, isn't your sarcasm about this gift a bit disrespectful to the Word   I say this as someone who rarely attends Pentecostal churches, but daily feasts on the precious memory of that life-changing experience.  

[leah777]

5 minutes ago, Deadworm said:

If you're going to make a snide remark about a post, then at least extend the courtesy of reading your target's next post!  I repeat that post:

"btw, I never said I accept the Pentecostal position on tongues as the initial evidence of Spirit baptism.  I'm just articulating THEIR position, just as I defend Catholicism here, despite my disagreements with aspects of it, simply because evangelicals seem to hate Catholics so much that they are unwilling even to try to understand how an informed Catholic might defend her position biblically.  So in the interest of fair play and compassionate listening I feel compelled to play Devil's Advocate on many denominational differences."

You seem to presume that the gifts the Holy Spirit has to offer are not worth pursuing.   My youthful experience of speaking in tongues at age 16 was a hundred times more awesome an experience of love, sweetness, and intimate connection with Christ than I have ever experienced before or since.  I was enveloped by wave after wave of liquid love, each more intense than the last.  One spectator just sat in that darkened amphitheater and stared because, as she would later say, "Your face was glowing in the dark."  A Lutheran pastor ultimately approached me and said he didn't believe in tongues.  I didn't argue with him; I just touched him gently on the forehead and he he exploded in other tongues, overpowered by the Spirit.   My mind was so transformed by that experience that I got the highest GPA in my province and received several scholarships as a result.  What I'm trying to say, bluntly put, is that the Holy Spirit doesn't offer junk!  If Paul can say he wants us all to speak in tongues and thanks God that he speaks in tongues more than anyone, isn't your sarcasm about this gift a bit disrespectful to the Word   I say this as someone who rarely attends Pentecostal churches, but daily feasts on the precious memory of that life-changing experience.  

I have no idea what has aroused such bitter ire at me. I will pray for peace for you. First accusations of sarcasm from you, then accusations of me making snide comments. then saying I am disrespectful of the Word of God. I am not responsible for your posts made after I have answered you. 

Its is always wise, when playing devils advocate, to state that position so as to be understood. This is all so sad. I will not be engaging with you after this.

 

 

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, Deadworm said:

If you're going to make a snide remark about a post, then at least extend the courtesy of reading your target's next post!  I repeat that post:

"btw, I never said I accept the Pentecostal position on tongues as the initial evidence of Spirit baptism.  I'm just articulating THEIR position, just as I defend Catholicism here, despite my disagreements with aspects of it, simply because evangelicals seem to hate Catholics so much that they are unwilling even to try to understand how an informed Catholic might defend her position biblically.  So in the interest of fair play and compassionate listening I feel compelled to play Devil's Advocate on many denominational differences."

You seem to presume that the gifts the Holy Spirit has to offer are not worth pursuing.   My youthful experience of speaking in tongues at age 16 was a hundred times more awesome an experience of love, sweetness, and intimate connection with Christ than I have ever experienced before or since.  I was enveloped by wave after wave of liquid love, each more intense than the last.  One spectator just sat in that darkened amphitheater and stared because, as she would later say, "Your face was glowing in the dark."  A Lutheran pastor ultimately approached me and said he didn't believe in tongues.  I didn't argue with him; I just touched him gently on the forehead and he he exploded in other tongues, overpowered by the Spirit.   My mind was so transformed by that experience that I got the highest GPA in my province and received several scholarships as a result.  What I'm trying to say, bluntly put, is that the Holy Spirit doesn't offer junk!  If Paul can say he wants us all to speak in tongues and thanks God that he speaks in tongues more than anyone, isn't your sarcasm about this gift a bit disrespectful to the Word   I say this as someone who rarely attends Pentecostal churches, but daily feasts on the precious memory of that life-changing experience.  

James 4:16

But now ye rejoice in your boastings: all such rejoicing is evil.