Forgiveness

[johnthebaptist]

If, for no good reason, I go to my neighbor’s house every day and kick him in the shin, does the Lord forgive me, or does he wait till I’ve stopped kicking him in the shin?

[johnthebaptist]

7 hours ago, Traveler said:

Forgiveness requires repentance.

G3341
μετάνοια
metanoia
met-an'-oy-ah
From G3340; (subjectively) compunction (for guilt, including reformation); by implication reversal (of [another’s] decision): - repentance.

Act 20:21  Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.

If someone sins against you and then comes back and says sorry as in repents then you are obliged to forgive them so that God our Father can forgive us our sins against him.  But Just as God does not forgive those that do not repent and who cast aside the gift of salvation so we are not required to forgive those that have no intention of being sorry for what they have done to us.

This teaching that you have to forgive as a blanket statement is wrong. I have been of forums where a poster would come on and do a lot of harm to others and then demand that we forgive them because we have to and then they go pick on another poster and chase them away then immediately demand that they be forgiven and god help any posters that do not agree.

What I was hoping to do with this thread was to solicit an agreement that we can't expect the Lord to forgive us for a particular sin till we repent of that sin.

Having done that, I wanted to point out that I think the sames goes with us - I'm not required to forgive a guy for kicking me in the shin every morning till he stops kicking me in the shin every morning. And the reason I think this is important is that I think some Christians might get discouraged if they think the Lord requires us to forgive people before they repent.

[Jedi4Yahweh]

21 minutes ago, johnthebaptist said:

What I was hoping to do with this thread was to solicit an agreement that we can't expect the Lord to forgive us for a particular sin till we repent of that sin.

Having done that, I wanted to point out that I think the sames goes with us - I'm not required to forgive a guy for kicking me in the shin every morning till he stops kicking me in the shin every morning. And the reason I think this is important is that I think some Christians might get discouraged if they think the Lord requires us to forgive people before they repent.

Exactly.  Listen to what Jesus/Yeshua said:

Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him. And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shalt forgive him. - Luk 17:3-4 KJV

Repentance is required for forgiveness.  Its the same way with us and God.  For us to receive forgiveness we must repent.  If we continue in sin there is no forgiveness.

For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries. Anyone who has set aside the law of Moses dies without mercy on the evidence of two or three witnesses. How much worse punishment, do you think, will be deserved by the one who has trampled underfoot the Son of God, and has profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has outraged the Spirit of grace? - Heb 10:26-29 ESV

 

[WowLookaDuck]

What about the fact that our sins have all been forgiven, past, present, and future? 

[johnthebaptist]

7 hours ago, WowLookaDuck said:

What about the fact that our sins have all been forgiven, past, present, and future? 

The Lord will discipline you, when necessary, to influence you to repent.

[Who me]

12 hours ago, johnthebaptist said:

think this is important is that I think some Christians might get discouraged if they think the Lord requires us to forgive people before they repent

 

Unfortunately this false teaching is very, very common in Christian circles,including here.

People see the many references to forgiveness and the references to ' unless you forgive you are not forgiven! ' and assume that forgiveness is given without any need of repentance.

 

[WowLookaDuck]

Isn't what Jesus said here kind of the opposite of what you are all saying? 

"And Jesus said, “Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do.”

-Luke 23:34

[WayneS]

Great topic. I also found these references supporting what others are saying. 
 

Acts 2:38 Peter replied, “Each of you must repent of your sins and turn to God, and be 
baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. Then you will 
receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
-Psalm 7:12-13 If a person does not repent, God will sharpen his sword; he will bend and 
string his bow. He will prepare his deadly weapons and shoot his flaming arrows. (OUCH)
-2 Peter 3:9 The Lord isn’t really being slow about his promise, as some people think. No, he is being patient for your sake. He does not want anyone to be destroyed, but wants everyone to repent

[Jedi4Yahweh]

16 hours ago, WowLookaDuck said:

What about the fact that our sins have all been forgiven, past, present, and future? 

Nowhere in scriptures says future sins will be forgiven automatically.  I would agree all past sins and present sins are forgiven when we confess and repent of them, but nowhere does it say future sins are forgiven.  Future sins are only forgiven if we confess and repent.  

If we choose to continue in sin and disobey God there is no forgiveness.

For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries. Anyone who has set aside the law of Moses dies without mercy on the evidence of two or three witnesses. How much worse punishment, do you think, will be deserved by the one who has trampled underfoot the Son of God, and has profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has outraged the Spirit of grace? - Heb 10:26-29 ESV

No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him. Little children, let no one deceive you. Whoever practices righteousness is righteous, as he is righteous. Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil. No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him; and he cannot keep on sinning, because he has been born of God. - 1Jo 3:6-9 ESV

According to scriptures if we continue sinning thinking we are still okay with God then we have been deceived and we are trampling on the blood of Jesus/Yahshua and despising the Spirit of grace and we can expect a fearful judgement?

 

Edited August 31, 2020 by Jedi4Yahweh

[johnthebaptist]

2 hours ago, WowLookaDuck said:

Isn't what Jesus said here kind of the opposite of what you are all saying? 

"And Jesus said, “Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do.”

-Luke 23:34

The Lord forgives us, but he expects us to learn from our mistakes. When we don't, he discplines us. What else can he do? Do you want there to be murder, adultery, stealing, pride, and other sins in heaven?