Let's talk about the faith of Jesus Christ

[FrankIeCip]

2 minutes ago, Don19 said:

When Jesus says,

¹⁷ Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. (John 14:17)

I believe He is referring to Himself. The New Testament teaching is Christ in us the hope of glory. And you will see this numerous times: Christ in us.

[FrankIeCip]

I agree. “If any man have not the Spirit of Christ he is none of his.”

Edited September 30, 2020 by FrankIeCip

[FrankIeCip]

I really don’t think He meant see Him physically. John the Baptist saw Him and said behold the Lamb of God. He saw WHO HE WAS/IS/IS TO COME. Other people didn’t know who he was. I think it’s like John 12:40. He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them. 
I think this is also confirmation of predestination. 

Edited September 30, 2020 by FrankIeCip
Added

[Don19]

11 minutes ago, Josheb said:

That would be irrational. Such a rendering would violate numerous exegetical and logical principles. 

The "him" of that sentence is "the Spirit of truth," and the Spirit of truth is according to the preceding verse the "helper," or "advocate," or parakleton (Gk). Furthermore,  your rendering would have Jesus sending or giving Jesus. 

Yes, in the next verse He says,

"I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you."

And, like I said, the New Testament teaches that Christ is come in the flesh. That remains true today - Christ is in us. That is, He is in our flesh.

Gal 2:20:

I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

 

11 minutes ago, Josheb said:

But, we must avoid false dichotomies because Romans 8:9 implies the Spirit of God and the Spirit of Christ are the same Spirit. 

Romans 8:9
"However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him."

See also 1 Cor. 6:17. 

 

Yes. Amen. We are one spirit with Him. Our union with Him is eternal and indissoluble. What God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.

 

11 minutes ago, Josheb said:

Lastly, Jesus is talking to people living in the world. They are seeing him as he speaks those words so he cannot say, "they don't see me," as they see him saying those words. That would require differing definitions of "see,"

A spiritual definition - e.g., eyes to see, ears to hear. He that hath an ear, let him hear. Obviously not a reference to a physical ear.

 

[FrankIeCip]

Wow I just added in my edit. 

[warrior12]

On 9/3/2020 at 1:47 PM, Peterlag said:

It's not how to get Christ to live within our natural realm, because the things of the spirit cannot enter the things of the flesh, and be subject to the obedience of the natural realm. But to let Christ live within, by letting our spiritually renewed mind into his spiritual world, and letting his spiritual faith function within our natural world. The “Christ in you” is the ability to walk and talk with him, doing what he would have us do rather than walking by our senses or by the dictates of any human doctrine.

Your whole post is a bunch of mobo jumbo.  So what has all Paul writings meant then.   stick with the basics and not complicate with vane babblings. 

 

Ephesians 2 King James Version (KJV)

⁸ For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

[enoob57]

A mature Christian would automatically realize God's creative Word will align His written Word... They are One with God:

John 1:1-16

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2 The same was in the beginning with God.

3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.

7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.

8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.

9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

15 John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me.

16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.
KJV
 

 

[warrior12]

4 hours ago, warrior12 said:

Your whole post is a bunch of mobo jumbo.  So what has all Paul writings meant then.   stick with the basics and not complicate with vane babblings. 

 

Ephesians 2 King James Version (KJV)

⁸ For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

ye

[Peterlag]

8 hours ago, Don19 said:

 

It's not all the same. Many Calvinists will preach sovereign grace, but cannot truly say whether they themselves are objects of God's grace. They preach that you need works to prove your election. So they are either doubtful or presumptuous, depending on how much confidence they put in the flesh. So they have "faith in Christ" in one sense, which is a totally different thing from what Paul intends when he says, "I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me."

This faith--the "faith of Christ"--is the same confident assurance with which Jesus said that He could pray and the Father would give Him more than twelve legions of angels. Jesus proclaimed to the world that He is the Son of God, and we are as He is in this world. Obviously, not sinless, as Him; but through Him we can proclaim to the world that we are the children of God. Not that we may be children of God. It's a faith that's assured--which assurance comes from the testimony of the Holy Spirit, just like Jesus also received. That same perfect assurance is rightfully ours, if we've received the Spirit of promise. To pretend otherwise is false humility, when we are presently raised up and seated in heavenly places in Christ Jesus.

Pretty darn good post Don19.

[Peterlag]

7 hours ago, Don19 said:

No, they were not.

John 7:37-39:

³⁷ In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.

³⁸ He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

³⁹ (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

 

The permanent indwelling of the Holy Spirit did not begin until Pentecost. This is the ministry of the Comforter (John 14:16-17, 26; 16:7).

Jesus even said it would be expedient (!)  for His disciples if He went away, so that they can receive the Comforter.

Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. (John 16:7)

The promise in view is assurance of eternal life. It's not miracles themselves, which Jesus told the 70 not to rejoice in (Luke 10:20). Consider Luke 11:11-13:

¹¹ If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent?

¹² Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion?

¹³ If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

If we're in Christ, we've already been translated into the kingdom (Col 1:13). We've already received the Spirit of adoption. In the cultural context in which Paul spoke of adoption, it was a legally binding arrangement; a natural-born son could be disinherited, but not an adopted son. We simply wait for the inheritance, which God, Who cannot lie, promised us.

You're 2 for 2 Don19. Thanks for sharing.