Let's talk about the faith of Jesus Christ

[Your closest friendnt]

6 hours ago, dhchristian said:

What we are seeing with the Humanist Christian model is a form of gainsaying in the church, even with those who serve (Especially with those who serve) A minister is the position of a servant, a slave of righteousness as Paul calls it, not a career choice to make a living at. Gainsaying not only involves financial gain but also personal fame and notoriety, They like the best seats in the synagogue, and to be called rabbi etc. (see Matthew 23) 

That is the perversion humanism brings, and the Jews of Jesus day were no exception. Humanism is like a serpent that creeps into safe place, and perverts that place. What was once based on Christ Jesus alone, is now based on Jesus Plus me.... My works add to salvation, when salvation is by grace alone. Faith is merely receiving that Grace, It is not our belief or how much we believe in him, but how much He is in us, whether He is LORD, or merely savior. Yes there is a progression in this, Yes we receive the truth for selfish reasons (eternal life) But we eventually reach the fulness of Christ in our walk, if we do not we are stuck in complacency which is the sin of the Laodicean church, thinking they are rich and in need of Nothing. Laodicea is still a "church", and her members are Christians, But they are stuck there, Like an eaglet who has yet to learn to fly. They may flap their wings hard, and squawk loudly, But until they learn to trust the thermals to lift them they will struggle to soar. The Faith of Christ is that thing we trust in to lift us up, Not our strength. When we are weak, He is strong. An Eagle when he is soring barely has to flap his wings. When We actually come to see this is when we submit to Him. (Read James 4:1-10). 

Instead of Praying to "strengthen my faith" we should pray "help me to put to death the old man and put on the new" We do this by receiving the testimony of Jesus Christ, and the faith of Christ. When the Laodicean church begins to see this is when the end time revival will begin and the outpouring of the gift of discerning of spirits will begin. This comes not from our strength and will, but from His work in us. He is the potter we are the clay, Christian humanism says, "I am the potter and I will mold myself as I see fit". Most people fear the loss of this "control" in their lives, But submitting to the authority of God is the most liberating thing a person can do, and one little preposition can change the entire meaning of the word of God from Christianity to Humanism. 

Such is the subtilty of the serpent, and the deception and denial of this end time church, a form of self deception. When a person begins to see this and tries to explain it as Peter has here, notice all the opposition that arises.... This is because most serve themselves rather than God. Hard words to hear, But those who have ears will hear. The Singleness or simplicity in Christ Jesus stands in contradiction to the subtilty of the serpent. 

This is what the old Hymns have that the new ones have lost, for example:

1. My hope is built on nothing less
   Than Jesus’ blood and righteousness;
   I dare not trust the sweetest frame,
   But wholly lean on Jesus’ name.
   • Refrain:
     On Christ, the solid Rock, I stand;
     All other ground is sinking sand,
     All other ground is sinking sand.
2. When darkness veils His lovely face,
   I rest on His unchanging grace;
   In every high and stormy gale,
   My anchor holds within the veil.
3. His oath, His covenant, His blood
   Support me in the whelming flood;
   When all around my soul gives way,
   He then is all my hope and stay.
4. When He shall come with trumpet sound,
   Oh, may I then in Him be found;
   Dressed in His righteousness alone,
   Faultless to stand before the throne.

 

Compared to this....

Make way through the waters
Walk me through the fire
Do what You are famous for
What You are famous for
Shut the mouths of lions
Bring dry bones to life and
Do what You are famous for
What You are famous for
I believe in You, God
I believe in You

Do You see the difference between these hymns? One is from the mid 19th century, the other is contemporary. The contemporary one is saying if "I believe, therefore, He will do", the old hymn says "what He has done, is the basis of my faith".  The Latter makes God a servant of your belief, while the other makes us the servant because of what he has done. To Me this is a huge difference. 
 

  

Thank you, you give me a lot to think about..

[Peterlag]

19 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

*******

To comment about something in a post it comes with the courtesy to respond to someone asking a question...

Not necessarily satisfying the question...but to let the other know that he/she is reconsidering the issues at hand...

It is as if someone is shutting the door to your face...not wanting to continued...that maybe so but how is done is the issue at hand....to block a discussion of an issue which someone has given rise to by claiming is the OP issue at hand ...it is not courteous and a little bit more...why start the discussion of an issue and then say I do not want to talk about it...in a way that projects that one is right and the other wrong...

You have it all wrong. If I respond to someone who attacks me personally is when the mangers of the site shut us down. It happened on the first post and then on the second post and this is the third post.

[Peterlag]

17 hours ago, dhchristian said:

Its Right there in chapter 1, It is referred to as the "testimony of Jesus Christ", and him being the "faithful and true witness" Which is also part of the introduction given to the church of Laodicea. It is the "Patience of Jesus Christ". These are all concepts expressed in Revelation.

`Most in Christian circles cannot see this, Because of this postmodern humanistic bias in their understanding, and when you try to explain this in a loving way they are offended by it because they value their own contribution to faith, and what they do not realize is their faith is in their own understanding and will, and not in the person of Jesus Christ. Which goes right back to Galatians 2:20 they have not crucified the flesh, instead they hold onto this concept of the carnal mind, instead of the mind of Christ. 

For me personally, reading and studying the Book of revelation led directly to being able to put to death the carnal mind and finally saying with the Prophet Ezekiel "Lord, thou knowest" Up until that point I thought i could figure it out, Until we reach that point we are unteachable, because we by our own strength and will resist and oppose the Truth. In so doing we oppose Jesus who is the truth (John 14:6) and the Spirit of Truth, (John 16:13) who will show us all things.     

We are on the same page since I understand everything you just wrote except the Revelation chapter 1 part. May I ask for a verse to go along with that chapter?

[Peterlag]

9 hours ago, David1701 said:

That question is a false dichotomy.  It is not "either, or"; but, "both, and".  God is in control of whom He saves AND we play a part in it, by His grace.

Is the boy in control of the wind-up car, or does the car move under its own power? 

The answer is: both!  The "or" is based on the mistaken assumption that these conditions are mutually exclusive.

The boy winds up the car and puts it on the carpet; then the car moves, by the power that the boy has given it.

I would also like to say if the cosmos is not something of a free democracy because it's under the ultimate rulership of God, then it has to be something of a tyrannical monarchy. Either some power is shared or it's not. And if it's not, then all the blame for all the evil in the cosmos must ultimately rest on the lap of the monarch whose will is never stopped from happening.

I believe the cosmos is a free democracy whereby we are truly blessed or cursed by how we align ourselves in the fight between two cosmic kingdoms. We either share in Christ's victory or we share in Satan's defeat. But we are in either case always only the secondary participants and never the main players.

[Peterlag]

On 10/4/2020 at 8:42 PM, Walter Goraj jr said:

The question I raise repeatedly in this forum is of eternal importance. Is God in control of who He saves or do we play a part in it. Because I believe that God is Sovereign,  everything neccesary for salvation comes from Him. His ultimate gift is Jesus Christ, who is faithful and just. He does not give us " faith" for us to then make the decision to "return it back". 

Do you believe you had something to contribute to your salvation,  even if it's just a teensy weensy bit of something? Hope to hear from you with that answer.

I would also like to say if the cosmos is not something of a free democracy because it's under the ultimate rulership of God, then it has to be something of a tyrannical monarchy. Either some power is shared or it's not. And if it's not, then all the blame for all the evil in the cosmos must ultimately rest on the lap of the monarch whose will is never stopped from happening.

I believe the cosmos is a free democracy whereby we are truly blessed or cursed by how we align ourselves in the fight between two cosmic kingdoms. We either share in Christ's victory or we share in Satan's defeat. But we are in either case always only the secondary participants and never the main players.

[dhchristian]

15 hours ago, teddyv said:

Can you explain what you mean by 'gainsaying" in this paragraph? It does not seem to work with what is the usual definition of that word and it's use.

Gainsaying scripturally is the opposition to God appointed leadership ( Gainsaying of Korah) church leadership today is a career choice as opposed to a calling to service, so the Gainsayer will elevate themselves to the position of Power in the church, and boast of their credentials such their educational accomplishment for the purpose of self aggrandizement. All gainsaying does this, and like the Pharisees Jesus spoke of they like the chief seats in the synagogues and all the attention drawn to themselves. 

A True minister called of God does not need to gainsay in this respect, they are not usurpers seeking power But their authority is granted and empowered by God. The internet is full of these sorts of self exalted ones in this modern humanist Christian mindset. 

Good question which needed further clarification. Jude 1:11 couples gainsaying with Balaam's error, which is to do so for reward, so I lump them together as intricately tied to one another. 

[dhchristian]

5 hours ago, Peterlag said:

We are on the same page since I understand everything you just wrote except the Revelation chapter 1 part. May I ask for a verse to go along with that chapter?

Read verses 1-9, Particularly 2, 5, and 9. 

In Particular compare how verse 9 has been altered from the KJV to the NIV re: the topic of this post. My personal belief is that the modern translators had this cultural bias (humanism) creep in to their translations, and that it was not a conscious attempt to bring in heresy, But a cultural one. Living in a monarchial world tends to lean towards an "authoritative text" translation, Living in a democratic world tends to lean towards a humanistic text and less authoritative. Which is the right "culture", in which the original text was written in, or closer to it is, is the Monarchial culture. Hence the KJV is more accurate in its interpretation. In Questions like this, this is why I put more value in the KJV. Even the NKJV gets these things wrong, and such is the subtilty of the serpent. The culture bias at the time of translation reflects in that translation. 

I, John, your brother and companion in the suffering and kingdom and patient endurance that are ours in Jesus, was on the island of Patmos because of the word of God and the testimony of Jesus. (NIV)

I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ. (KJV)

 

[FrankIeCip]

Hi Walter. I agree. It is a big hang up that most Christians do not want to hear even though it is very clear in scripture. Christ did not die and then beg ppl to accept this gift. We are the beggars. Not the other way around. 

[David1701]

14 hours ago, Peterlag said:

I would also like to say if the cosmos is not something of a free democracy because it's under the ultimate rulership of God, then it has to be something of a tyrannical monarchy. Either some power is shared or it's not. And if it's not, then all the blame for all the evil in the cosmos must ultimately rest on the lap of the monarch whose will is never stopped from happening.

I believe the cosmos is a free democracy whereby we are truly blessed or cursed by how we align ourselves in the fight between two cosmic kingdoms. We either share in Christ's victory or we share in Satan's defeat. But we are in either case always only the secondary participants and never the main players.

The Bible is our infallible rule for faith and practice, not rationalisations or philosophy.

[David1701]

9 hours ago, Walter Goraj jr said:

Wow sounds like a perfect plan. So what makes one person more worthy to accept Christ then someone else?

Who said anything about being worthy to accept Christ?  Not one of us is worthy to accept Christ!  That is why salvation is by grace (unmerited favour).

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In other words how is God's grace effective in that person's life and not someone else's?

God's word never returns to him empty, but always accomplishes what he sends it out to achieve.

Is. 55:10,11 (ESV)

10 “For as the rain and the snow come down from heaven and do not return there but water the earth, making it bring forth and sprout, giving seed to the sower and bread to the eater, 
11 so shall my word be that goes out from my mouth; it shall not return to me empty, but it shall accomplish that which I purpose, and shall succeed in the thing for which I sent it. 

James 1:18 (EMTV) Exercising His will He begat us by the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of His creatures. 

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You know there's a lot of people that are on their way to hell, and I don't think it's just because they didn't make the right decision.

People go to hell because of their sins.