Feast of Tabernacles proves a post trib rapture

[iamlamad]

Just now, Moby said:

Please take a half an hour and carefully read this link which is 80% scripture by volume so it's not like I am asking you to read my opinion but my simply asking you to pay attention to what our Father is saying as "precept upon precept":

https://sumofthyword.com/2016/10/04/the-rapture-of-the-church-is-after-the-tribulation/

There is way too much in that link to copy and paste it all here.

It is the 20% commentary that is wrong. Your scriptures are fine. 

[JohnR7]

1 hour ago, iamlamad said:

Good post, John! Did you ever get to meet Gary L Wood who spent some time in heaven? I met him in Tulsa when he came to speak a couple of times. 

Had not heard of him - I just listened to a interview of his in YouTube. Interesting story and lots of good information. For example he says that praise music is written in Heaven and comes to earth from there. 

[iamlamad]

5 minutes ago, JohnR7 said:

Had not heard of him - I just listened to a interview of his in YouTube. Interesting story and lots of good information. For example he says that praise music is written in Heaven and comes to earth from there. 

Hearing from people who have been there just makes we want to BE THERE! 

Some reported seeing the tables being spread for the marriage feast. Then later others were told the preparations are finished and heaven is just waiting on the church.  I want to GO!

I think my favorite book is 6 Big Big Big Angels - a story of a 4 1/2 year old girl that went to heaven. 
Second maybe is My Time in Heaven by Sigmund. 

Then there was an OLD book, where a guy got to spend 40 days in heaven: Paradise: The Holy City and the Glory of the Throne

It is a very controversial book. I still like it a lot.

Edited September 16, 2020 by iamlamad

[JohnR7]

3 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

Hearing from people who have been there just makes we want to BE THERE! 

Yes, I think that is why God waits until the end of our life to start to reveal Heaven to us. We want to take as many people with us as we can. Otherwise we would just make a beeline for heaven.

[The Light]

2 hours ago, Moby said:

Christ’s resurrection after the cross was called the “firstfruit” which took place around 30 AD:

1 Corinthians 15:20-22  But now hath Christ been raised from the dead, the firstfruit of them that are asleep. (21) For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. (22) For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive.

So “Christ the firstfruit” took place in 30 AD then they that are Christ’s at his coming “in the last day” is the only other resurrection/rapture of the saints and “then cometh the end”:

Do you understand what first fruits are? They are presented to God and when found acceptable they guarantee a harvest. The first fruits are not the harvest, they are the first fruits of a harvest. So Christ is the first fruits of those that sleep. Christ rose from the dead as first fruits, which means that a harvest will rise from the dead. In Revelation 14 we see that there are 144,000 first fruits, 12,000 from each tribe of Israel. Since they are presented to God before His throne we know that they are acceptable and that there will be a harvest of the 12 tribes across the earth.

Rev 14

And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.

² And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:

³ And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

⁴ These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

2 hours ago, Moby said:

1 Corinthians 15:23-24  But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruit; then they that are Christ’s, at his coming. (24) Then cometh the end, when he shall deliver up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have abolished all rule and all authority and power.

Right. Each in his order. Christ is the first fruits of the dead in Christ. When He comes the dead will be raised first. Then those that are alive in Christ will be changed and caught up. That is the barley and wheat harvest, the fulfillment of the spring feasts with the mostly Gentile Church caught up before the 70th week. Then the 70th week begins after a confirming of the covenant. There will be 144,000 first fruits which guarantees a harvest of the 12 tribes across the earth. That is the harvest that is seen in Rev 14. This is the fall fruit harvest.

Rev 14

¹⁴ And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

¹⁵ And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

¹⁶ And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

¹⁷ And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.

¹⁸ And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.

¹⁹ And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

 

2 hours ago, Moby said:

This “last day” resurrection/rapture cannot be 3 1/2 years into the tribulation as the midtribbers claim or 7 years before the last day/year as the pretribbers claim:

I agree that the last day resurrection cannot be 3.5 years into the tribulation. When is the last day resurrection. It comes at the end of the week which happens at the 6th seal with the coming of Jesus. This is the same coming that you see in Matt 24 and is the same coming of Rev 14.

This does not prevent a pretribulation rapture before the week begins. The order is they that are Christs at His coming. He will come in a secret rapture as we see the Church in heaven in Rev 5 and we know that the 24 elders have their white robes and crowns.

2 hours ago, Moby said:

Job 14:12 So man lieth down and riseth not: till the heavens are no more, they will not awake, nor be roused out of sleep.

Now let's get the rest of the details.

Job 14

¹² So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.

¹³ O that thou wouldest hide me in the grave, that thou wouldest keep me secret, until thy wrath be past, that thou wouldest appoint me a set time, and remember me!

¹⁴ If a man die, shall he live again? all the days of my appointed time will I wait, till my change come.

So, men lieth down till the heavens be no more, until thy wrath be past, and at their appointed time they will be changed. ALL MEN? Or those whose appointed time is AFTER THE WRATH OF GOD?

Look at Daniel 12

² And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

Why are not all of them that sleep in the dust of the earth awakened? It would seem that there are some awakened before the wrath of God occurs. It would also seem that there are yet 3.5 years left. That means that the 70th week of Daniel is over and then there will be a 3.5 year wrath of God.

Dan 12

⁶ And one said to the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, How long shall it be to the end of these wonders?

⁷ And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

Here we see those whose appointed time is AFTER the wrath of God as Job was saying.

Rev 11

¹⁸ And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

And here we see 24 elders dressed in white raiment that have their crowns, meaning that they have already received rewards.

Rev 4

⁴ And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold.

So, the order is first fruits, then they that are Christs at His coming. So the mostly Gentile Church will be raptured at His coming before the week begins. Then there are more first fruits, the 144,000 from each tribe. Then He comes at the 6th seal and then we see the great multitude which is before the wrath of God. So the 12 tribes across the earth will be Christs at His coming at that time. Then we know that God comes again at Armageddon. At that appointed time will Job and others be raised.

[JohnR7]

3 hours ago, The Light said:

He will come in a secret rapture

I ended up leaving Bible college because some people got so upset because I believe in a secret rapture.  People  on a Christian web site said that what Conservative "Jewish" people believe is heresy. Makes me wonder just what they are going to be teaching during the tribulation period. I was told the church will be taken out of here and the "Jewish" people will give a witness and a testimony for God. 

[The Light]

14 minutes ago, JohnR7 said:

I ended up leaving Bible college because some people got so upset because I believe in a secret rapture.  People  on a Christian web site said that what Conservative "Jewish" people believe is heresy. Makes me wonder just what they are going to be teaching during the tribulation period. I was told the church will be taken out of here and the "Jewish" people will give a witness and a testimony for God. 

Yes there will be a secret rapture before the 70th week of Daniel begins, hence a pretribulation rapture of the Church. After this fullness of the Gentiles comes in, the blindness will be removed from part of Israel. Then a covenant is confirmed by the rider on the white horse, the seventh king, and AN antichrist who will be given the stephanos crown (will become the Secretary General of the UN). The seals have been opened when this king goes forth conquering and to conquer. There will be 144,000 first fruits, 12,000 from each tribe that guarantees the harvest. This is the gathering from heaven and earth that occurs at the 6th seal, which is why there is a great multitude in Rev 7. This is a prewrath rapture which we can see with the coming of Jesus at the 6th seal, and Matt 24, and Rev 14.

Edited September 16, 2020 by The Light

[JohnR7]

2 hours ago, The Light said:

There will be 144,000 first fruits, 12,000 from each tribe that guarantees the harvest.

Are you saying the Harvest takes place during the Trib period? Not before?

 

[The Light]

4 minutes ago, JohnR7 said:

Are you saying the Harvest takes place during the Trib period? Not before?

 

I'm saying that the Church will be raptured in a pretribulation rapture. That is the wheat harvest. We see the Church in heaven in Revelation 5. Then God keeps His promise to His Chosen people and opens the eyes of the 12 tribes across the earth. This happens during the seals. At the 6th seal Christ returns and there is a prewrath rapture of the 12 tribes across the earth. That is the fall fruit harvest. The week is over and the day of the Lord and the wrath of God begins. God's wrath lasts for a time, times and half a time (3.5 years). The nation of Israel will remain on earth in the protected place that was prepared for the woman (Israel) during Gods wrath.

Two raptures. One for the Church at the trump of God when it will be like the days of Noah where Noah is in the ark 7 days before the flood. This is the secret pretribulation rapture. The second is the prewath rapture of the 12 tribes across the earth. It will happen at the last trump, which is blown on the Feast of Trumpets. It will be like the days of Lot where the very day Lot left Sodom destruction came.