Great Tribulation

[JohnR7]

8 hours ago, RonaldBruno said:

The GT is future and involves the entire world. Not one war, one small town - that wasn't great.

The tribulation could be progressive or symbolic so that it involves one person or one town at a time.  There has been a huge amount of teaching that the tribulation is a 7 year event that takes place at the end of the church age (time of the gentiles, Holy Spirit dispensation). If this is the case then we can expect the tribulation to begin somewhere around 2029. Jesus will come for His Bride, then 7 years later He will return with His Bride to rule and reign for 1,000 years. If all of this is literal. If it is symbolic then that is a different story. 

[JohnR7]

On 9/16/2020 at 5:37 AM, Diaste said:

Are you saying it was the destruction of the Temple that was great tribulation?

The question for Jesus was: “Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?” They wanted to know when Jerusalem was going to be destroyed and when was the end of the age. We presume that Jesus was answering both questions at the same time.  So the destruction of Jerusalem was a shadow and a type of what would take place at the end of the church age. The Temple was destroyed in 70 ad and now the church is the temple of God.  God dwells in people and not a building. 

[JohnR7]

On 9/10/2020 at 9:18 PM, abcdef said:

Some see it that way, but I don't believe that everything is revolving around that theory.

This maybe dispensationalism but BOTH Moses and Peter tells us that a day is 1,000 years. Jesus showed up exactly on time. Adam was "born" or placed in Eden in 4004 BC. Jesus was born into the world 4,000 years later. Adam lived 33 years before he fell into sin. Jesus lived 33 years before he went to calvary to pay the price for Adam's transgression. Abraham tells us about the third day: "On the third day Abraham looked up and saw the place in the distance." (Genesis 22:4) Abraham saw the time we live in from a distance. Jesus talks about the third day: "Go tell that fox, 'I will keep on driving out demons and healing people today and tomorrow, and on the third day I will reach my goal.'" (Luke 13:32) Moses said: "Be prepared for the third day" (Exodus 19:15) Even the people were told to wash their robes as we are told to wash our robes today. 

[Diaste]

1 hour ago, JohnR7 said:

The question for Jesus was: “Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?” They wanted to know when Jerusalem was going to be destroyed and when was the end of the age. We presume that Jesus was answering both questions at the same time.  So the destruction of Jerusalem was a shadow and a type of what would take place at the end of the church age. The Temple was destroyed in 70 ad and now the church is the temple of God.  God dwells in people and not a building. 

The Temple prophecy was given as Jesus was leaving the Temple and it is unrelated to the question and the answer given on the Mount of Olives. The Mount of Olives is about a 1/2 hour walk from the Temple. It was least a 1/2 hour later the question, "Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?" was posed. In fact no time is given for this moment relative to when Jesus left the Temple. It could have been a 1/2 hour, a day, a month, or a year later. We don't know. What we do know is this happened at a different location than the Temple mount and at a different time, and is therefore unrelated to the Temple prophecy.

Because the truth is God dwells in a building of flesh does not preclude the existence of a Temple. If that idea did preclude the existence of a place of worship then why so many 'church' buildings in the name of Jesus all over the world? It appears God does dwell in a building.

[Diaste]

1 hour ago, JohnR7 said:

This maybe dispensationalism but BOTH Moses and Peter tells us that a day is 1,000 years. Jesus showed up exactly on time. Adam was "born" or placed in Eden in 4004 BC. Jesus was born into the world 4,000 years later. Adam lived 33 years before he fell into sin. Jesus lived 33 years before he went to calvary to pay the price for Adam's transgression. Abraham tells us about the third day: "On the third day Abraham looked up and saw the place in the distance." (Genesis 22:4) Abraham saw the time we live in from a distance. Jesus talks about the third day: "Go tell that fox, 'I will keep on driving out demons and healing people today and tomorrow, and on the third day I will reach my goal.'" (Luke 13:32) Moses said: "Be prepared for the third day" (Exodus 19:15) Even the people were told to wash their robes as we are told to wash our robes today. 

 

"For in Your sight a thousand years are but a day that passes, or a watch of the night." - Psalm 90

I have often wondered why people chose a day to equal 1000 years when we could have picked a 2-6 hour security watch.

Funny, isn't it?

[JohnR7]

1 hour ago, Diaste said:

I have often wondered why people chose a day to equal 1000 years when we could have picked a 2-6 hour security watch.

The 1,000 years is what pertains to us the most. We have 3,000 years from Adam to David. 4,000 from Adam to Jesus. The church age has been 2,000 years. The kingdom age will be 1,000 years. 

[JohnR7]

2 hours ago, Diaste said:

It appears God does dwell in a building.

The very first letter in the Bible is a Bet that represents a tent or a dwelling.  In Hebrew the first letter sets the pace for the rest of the word. In this case the letter Bet sets the pace for the entire Bible. We learn that God wanted to dwell with mankind. Even in a humble way. So first we start with a tent or a tabernacle. Then we learn about Jesus where God becomes a part of His Creation. At Pentecost we learn about the Holy Spirit of God that dwelled in man and how we can have the mind of Christ and the Divine thoughts of God. So we have to start at the beginning and we build upon that. There were no church building in the beginning of the church.  Even the Tabernacle was built with human hands according to the pattern that God showed Moses. Why would God want to dwell in a tent?  Why would God want to become so close & so intimate as to become a part of His creation?  

[Diaste]

19 hours ago, JohnR7 said:

The very first letter in the Bible is a Bet that represents a tent or a dwelling.  In Hebrew the first letter sets the pace for the rest of the word. In this case the letter Bet sets the pace for the entire Bible. We learn that God wanted to dwell with mankind. Even in a humble way. So first we start with a tent or a tabernacle. Then we learn about Jesus where God becomes a part of His Creation. At Pentecost we learn about the Holy Spirit of God that dwelled in man and how we can have the mind of Christ and the Divine thoughts of God. So we have to start at the beginning and we build upon that. There were no church building in the beginning of the church.  Even the Tabernacle was built with human hands according to the pattern that God showed Moses. Why would God want to dwell in a tent?  Why would God want to become so close & so intimate as to become a part of His creation?  

That misses the point. Again, because the spiritual truth of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit in the body corporate or individual is immutable truth does not require an abolition of physical structures in which to worship God in the liturgy of the worshipers. 

If the proof there will be no physical Temple is that the Spirit of God dwells in believers is all you have it's no proof at all. How would you prove nonexistence? If a thing doesn't exist can there be any evidence for it? No. Therefore there is no evidence of any kind. We have evidence the Temple will exist.

"So he will seat himself in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God." 

What you are saying is that this guy above will literally seat himself in the individual believer. That is just....

[Diaste]

19 hours ago, JohnR7 said:

The 1,000 years is what pertains to us the most. We have 3,000 years from Adam to David. 4,000 from Adam to Jesus. The church age has been 2,000 years. The kingdom age will be 1,000 years. 

I see. The truth that proves your point is the only truth that's true.

"...or a watch in the night." cannot be tossed aside as if it didn't exist. 

[JohnR7]

30 minutes ago, Diaste said:

I see. The truth that proves your point is the only truth that's true.

"...or a watch in the night." cannot be tossed aside as if it didn't exist. 

Is there a point you were trying to make? Because so far you have failed to communicate to me what your "point" is.