Great Tribulation

[Diaste]

14 minutes ago, JohnR7 said:

Is there a point you were trying to make? Because so far you have failed to communicate to me what your "point" is. 

You and many others conclude a day is exactly equal to 1000 years in God's eyes. But Psalm 90 is cherry picked and this, "...and [as] a watch in the night." is ignored. 

So the whole 1000 years equals a day is not accurate as 1000 year is also said to be 'as a watch in the night." Which in ancient Israel was 2-6 hours.

Your, and others, whole narrative falls apart. 

This story isn't new as these kind of dates have been promoted for a long time. Someone has been saying "In 10-15 years." since the ascension. It's always wrong.

[abcdef]

On 9/19/2020 at 6:47 AM, JohnR7 said:

This maybe dispensationalism but BOTH Moses and Peter tells us that a day is 1,000 years. Jesus showed up exactly on time. Adam was "born" or placed in Eden in 4004 BC. Jesus was born into the world 4,000 years later. Adam lived 33 years before he fell into sin. Jesus lived 33 years before he went to calvary to pay the price for Adam's transgression. Abraham tells us about the third day: "On the third day Abraham looked up and saw the place in the distance." (Genesis 22:4) Abraham saw the time we live in from a distance. Jesus talks about the third day: "Go tell that fox, 'I will keep on driving out demons and healing people today and tomorrow, and on the third day I will reach my goal.'" (Luke 13:32) Moses said: "Be prepared for the third day" (Exodus 19:15) Even the people were told to wash their robes as we are told to wash our robes today. 

Hi JohnR7,

I see what you are saying, but I am not sure that trying to calculate the day of the resur/rapt will work by that method.

There are too many possible variations to be accurate to the day or year even.

I think that identifying the events leading up to the resur/rapt is more accurate.

It does not calculate an exact date, as in the way men reason out time, but does give us a narrowed window of expectation.

The events shown to us will give a more accurate perception of the timeline when they are understood.

I agree that the time is close, as you say, maybe 10- 20 years, bur it could be only months away.

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Since you have chosen the trib as a topic in this thread, I propose to you that the trib ended in 1967 when Jerusalem was restored to Israel.

The great trib was from 70 AD until Jerusalem was restored.

The trib is not 7 literal years, but is centuries long.

It is the disregard of the symbolism that causes the miscalculation.

That is, the belief that the 7 times are 7 years in the future.

The 7 times are the same time period as shown in the statue of Dan. 2.

[JohnR7]

2 hours ago, abcdef said:

The trib is not 7 literal years, but is centuries long.

I think that is very valid that there may not be a 7 year tribulation, just like you say 2,000 years of tribulation has been a part of the church age. There are towns in california that have burned to the ground. What more can you do to them?  In the same way there may not be a rapture event so much as when people die they go to be with the lord. Even we read in the Bible about a resurrection that took place when Jesus died at Calvary. The resurrection power of God is at work in our lives. To be born again is a resurrection of sorts. 

For me I will be 77 years old in 2029 toward the end of the church age. So even if there was a 7 year tribulation period I do not plan to live long enough to be a part of it. Others feel different and lots of people think they are going to be alive during that period of time. 

[abcdef]

2 hours ago, JohnR7 said:

I think that is very valid that there may not be a 7 year tribulation, just like you say 2,000 years of tribulation has been a part of the church age. There are towns in california that have burned to the ground. What more can you do to them?  In the same way there may not be a rapture event so much as when people die they go to be with the lord. Even we read in the Bible about a resurrection that took place when Jesus died at Calvary. The resurrection power of God is at work in our lives. To be born again is a resurrection of sorts. 

For me I will be 77 years old in 2029 toward the end of the church age. So even if there was a 7 year tribulation period I do not plan to live long enough to be a part of it. Others feel different and lots of people think they are going to be alive during that period of time. 

The period of trouble, as shown in the Rev, is centered on the unbelieving broken off branches from the rejection of the gospel Pentecost kingdom  (37 AD) until Israel is restored to Jerusalem (1967).

The events shown as the seals and trumpets are primarily about this time period.

After the seals/trumpets time period is shown, the story is repeated again as the woman in ch 12.

The church/kingdom is still on planet earth during this period.

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[JohnR7]

13 hours ago, abcdef said:

until Israel is restored to Jerusalem (1967).

 There are people that would question how much of a witness and testimony conservative "Jewish" people are for God. 

[abcdef]

3 hours ago, JohnR7 said:

 There are people that would question how much of a witness and testimony conservative "Jewish" people are for God. 

The scriptures that they hold witness of Jesus as the Messiah, that is their testimony as a people.

The fact that Jerusalem has been restored to Israel's military control in fulfillment of prophecy is the proof of their relationship with God as His chosen people. 

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*The Revelation centers on Israel's restoration to Jerusalem.

The story is repeated over and over from different points of view.

1. The people of Israel seen as the unbelieving broken branches in the seals and trumpets.

2. The people of Israel seen as being blessed for the sake of the promises made to the fathers in the story of the 2 witnesses (The people of Israel, not 2 individuals.)

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The great trib is mainly the time that the people of Israel are outside the city, from 70 AD until 1967.

It spans centuries, not a literal 7 years.

The main attacker of the people in that time is Rome.

[JohnR7]

33 minutes ago, abcdef said:

The great trib is mainly the time that the people of Israel are outside the city, from 70 AD until 1967.

Then what happens when you add 1967 + 70 = 2037?  The church age is 2,000 years from 29 AD to 2029 AD plus 7 years is 2036.  People say the great battle of armageddon is at the end of the tribulation period (2036) So Jerusalem will be restored on the "Jewish" New Year in the year 2037. 

"And they will go out and look on the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me; the worms that eat them will not die, the fire that burns them will not be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all mankind." (Isaiah 66:24) 

At the end of every year at the feast of tabernacles, the nations will send  a representative to Jerusalem. They will visit the battle field as a reminder of the war that took place there. 

"Then all the survivors from the nations that came against Jerusalem will go up year after year to worship the King, the LORD of Hosts, and to celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles. And should any of the families of the earth not go up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of Hosts, then the rain will not fall on them. And if the people of Egypt will not go up and enter in, then the rain will not fall on them; this will be the plague with which the LORD strikes the nations who do not go up to celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles". (Zechariah 14:16.17,18)

Adam died when he was 930 years of age. They say that he gave 70 years of his life to David. Jesus rules on the throne of David. 

"He is the one who will build a house for My Name. He will be My son, and I will be his Father. And I will establish the throne of his kingdom over Israel forever.'" 1 Chronicles 22:10

Forever Jesus will rule on the throne of David or his son Solomon. 

Edited September 24, 2020 by JohnR7

[JohnR7]

On 9/20/2020 at 7:32 AM, Diaste said:

You and many others conclude a day is exactly equal to 1000 years in God's eyes. But Psalm 90 is cherry picked and this, "...and [as] a watch in the night." is ignored.

There is nothing cherry picked about the fact that Adam and Jesus were born 4,000 years apart. This is simply an observation. There is nothing cherry picked about the church age being 2,000 years and there is nothing cherry picked about the 1,000 year reign of Christ being 1,000 years in length. "The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and will reign with Him for a thousand years." (Revelation 20:7)

""Go tell that fox, 'I will keep on driving out demons and healing people today and tomorrow, and on the third day I will reach my goal.'" (Luke 13:32)

"On the third day Abraham looked up and saw the place in the distance." (Genesis 22:4)

From a distance Abraham saw a time when the Kingdoms of the World will become the Kingdom of God. (Rev 11:15)

16Instead, they were longing for a better country, a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for He has prepared a city for them. 17By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac on the altar. He who had received the promises was ready to offer his one and only son, 18even though God had said to him, “Through Isaac your offspring will be reckoned.” 19Abraham reasoned that God could raise the dead, and in a sense, he did receive Isaac back from death. (Hebrews 11) 

[abcdef]

47 minutes ago, JohnR7 said:

Then what happens when you add 1967 + 70 = 2037?  The church age is 2,000 years from 29 AD to 2029 AD plus 7 years is 2036.  People say the great battle of armageddon is at the end of the tribulation period (2036) So Jerusalem will be restored on the "Jewish" New Year in the year 2037. 

 

I am pressed for time today so let me ask your opinion about the restoration of Jerusalem.

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What do you believe are the requirements for Jerusalem to be "restored"?

 

[JohnR7]

55 minutes ago, abcdef said:

I am pressed for time today so let me ask your opinion about the restoration of Jerusalem.

I am sure they will restore as much as they can. I have done a fair amount of restoration work in my life. 

 

56 minutes ago, abcdef said:

What do you believe are the requirements for Jerusalem to be "restored"?

They need permission. There is a problem with the temple mount that the muslims control that area. They want to begin construction on a new temple but the authority will not allow them to place the cornerstone. 

Trump used an existing building for the embassy in Jerusalem. He saved quite a bit over what it would have cost to build a new building.