Jesus' marraige feast parable proves a post trib rapture!

[JohnR7]

On 9/17/2020 at 7:44 AM, Moby said:

Many Christians say the Jewish wedding ceremony proves a pretrib rapture

So you plan on going through the tribulation period. Are you doing anything to prepare for that? 

[Moby]

8 hours ago, JohnR7 said:

So you plan on going through the tribulation period. Are you doing anything to prepare for that? 

Father is taking the whole church through a tribulation to prove them just as He did His people when he had Moses lead Israel into their wilderness:

https://sumofthyword.com/2016/10/04/the-rapture-of-the-church-is-after-the-tribulation/

Yes I am preparing by coming out of this world and claiming all the promises by faith:

2 Corinthians 6:16-7:1  And what agreement hath a temple of God with idols? for we are a temple of the living God; even as God said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.  (17)  Wherefore Come ye out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, And touch no unclean thing; And I will receive you,  (18)  And will be to you a Father, And ye shall be to me sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty. (7:1)  Having therefore these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all defilement of flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

[JohnR7]

29 minutes ago, Moby said:

Father is taking the whole church through a tribulation

Actually life is pretty good for us. It would be a lot better if I did not watch the 6 o'clock news. Life is good for Tesla. His stock went from $49 to $490 in the last year. I wish I had gotten in on that a year ago. 

[Moby]

16 minutes ago, JohnR7 said:

Actually life is pretty good for us. It would be a lot better if I did not watch the 6 o'clock news. Life is good for Tesla. His stock went from $49 to $490 in the last year. I wish I had gotten in on that a year ago. 

We will find out by next year how worthless cash will be in the coming years. True provision only comes from above:

Romans 13:14  But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.

[JohnR7]

3 minutes ago, Moby said:

We will find out by next year how worthless cash will be in the coming years. True provision only comes from above:

I pretty much have everything I need. I do not eat much and I am pretty sure I could get by for a year on the food we have.  We keep looking for people we can give stuff to because we are running out of storage space. I have a lot of stuff I could sell or trade if I needed money. 

[The Light]

On 9/20/2020 at 9:28 PM, Moby said:

Why can't you guys pay attention to the context???

Paul starts off the chapter expressing the fact that there is a remnant of Jews from every generation that is elected by the grace of God but the majority of every generation of Israel are hardened:

Romans 11:5-7  Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.  (6)  But if it is by grace, it is no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace.  (7)  What then? That which Israel seeketh for, that he obtained not; but the election obtained it, and the rest were hardened:

So Paul is clearly saying in this passage that part of Israel will continue to be hardened until all the Gentiles elected by grace have come in so that "all Israel" consisting of all elected Jews and Gentiles have completed the ONE olive tree called "all Israel":Romans 11:25-26  For I would not, brethren, have you ignorant of this mystery, lest ye be wise in your own conceits, that a hardening in part hath befallen Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in;  (26)  and so all Israel shall be saved: even as it is written, There shall come out of Zion the Deliverer; He shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

I do keep things in context. I'm not sure why you quit reading. We see what happens in the end. There will be a great harvest of the 12 tribes who will become jealous of the Gentiles.

Rom 11

⁵ Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

⁶ And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

⁷ What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

⁸ (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day.

⁹ And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them:

¹⁰ Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.

¹¹ I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

¹² Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?

The Gentiles will be raptured in the first harvest the early summer wheat harvest. And what will the Jews say?

Jer 8

The harvest is past, the summer is ended, and we are not saved.

 

You spend a lot of time talking about the olive tree, but don't seem to understand the timing of the regrafting.

Maybe you should learn the parable of the fig tree. There are two harvests in the fig tree, and they don't happen at the same time.

Quote

Sorry bro but this passage is talking about the great tribulation when the saints endure their greatest tribulation:

Exactly. Except it is not the Church that is going through the great tribulation, it is the 12 tribes across the earth. The Church is already in heaven (see Rev 5), and God has turned His attention to His Chosen People, during the 70th week of Daniel.

Quote

  And from the time that the continual burnt-offering shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand and two hundred and ninety days(a time, times, and a half).  (12)  Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.  (13)  But go thou thy way till the end be; for thou shalt rest, and shalt stand in thy lot, at the end of the days.

 Nope. A time, times and half a time is NOT 1290 days. It is 1260 days, so another error.

 

Quote

The wrath is a year long as Father showed us in several passages:

Jeremiah 46:10 For this is the day of the Lord GOD of hosts, a day of vengeance, that he may avenge him of his adversaries: and the sword shall devour, and it shall be satiate and made drunk with their blood: for the Lord GOD of hosts hath a sacrifice in the north country by the river Euphrates.

Isaiah 34:8 For Jehovah has a day of vengeance, the year of recompense for the cause of Zion.

Isaiah 61:2 to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor, the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;

Isaiah 63:4 For the day of vengeance was in my heart, the year of my redeemed is come.

From those 4 passages above we can conclude “the day of the Lord” is also called “the day of vengeance of our God” to proclaim “the year of the Lord’s favor” that He also declares is “the year of recompense” and the “year of the His redeemed” when he pours out His wrath which comes  after the tribulation is over and the sun and moon are darkened:

Mark 13:24-25 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, (25) and the stars shall be falling from heaven, and the powers that are in the heavens shall be shaken.

We agree that the tribulation is over before the wrath of God begins. Not many understand that. However when we look at Dan 12 we see that the abomination of desolation occurs 1290 days after the daily sacrifice is taken away. That puts the abomination of desolation toward the end of the week day 2475. At the end of the week(day 2520)  Jesus returns at the 6th seal and there is a rapture.(not the church), but the people of Daniel, the 12 tribes across the earth, that are not in the nation of Israel.

Dan 12

And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

² And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

After this happens, the week is over, and yet there is still a time, times and half a time left. This time is the wrath of God. We can further prove that by the two wittnesses. The two witnesses do their thing mostly during the wrath of God after the week is over, and they witness 3.5 years. So the wrath of God lasts 3.5 years. We can even further prove that by the ANTICHRIST, the eight king, that is given power to CONTINUE 42 months. It is the 7th king, the rider on the white horse that is in power during the majority of the 70th week.

 

Edited September 22, 2020 by The Light

[Moby]

9 hours ago, The Light said:

I do keep things in context. I'm not sure why you quit reading. We see what happens in the end. There will be a great harvest of the 12 tribes who will become jealous of the Gentiles.

Rom 11

⁵ Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

⁶ And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

⁷ What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

⁸ (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day.

⁹ And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them:

¹⁰ Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.

¹¹ I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

¹² Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?

The Gentiles will be raptured in the first harvest the early summer wheat harvest. And what will the Jews say?

Jer 8

The harvest is past, the summer is ended, and we are not saved.

 

You spend a lot of time talking about the olive tree, but don't seem to understand the timing of the regrafting.

Maybe you should learn the parable of the fig tree. There are two harvests in the fig tree, and they don't happen at the same time.

Exactly. Except it is not the Church that is going through the great tribulation, it is the 12 tribes across the earth. The Church is already in heaven (see Rev 5), and God has turned His attention to His Chosen People, during the 70th week of Daniel.

 Nope. A time, times and half a time is NOT 1290 days. It is 1260 days, so another error.

We agree that the tribulation is over before the wrath of God begins. Not many understand that. However when we look at Dan 12 we see that the abomination of desolation occurs 1290 days after the daily sacrifice is taken away. That puts the abomination of desolation toward the end of the week day 2475. At the end of the week(day 2520)  Jesus returns at the 6th seal and there is a rapture.(not the church), but the people of Daniel, the 12 tribes across the earth, that are not in the nation of Israel.

Dan 12

And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

² And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

After this happens, the week is over, and yet there is still a time, times and half a time left. This time is the wrath of God. We can further prove that by the two wittnesses. The two witnesses do their thing mostly during the wrath of God after the week is over, and they witness 3.5 years. So the wrath of God lasts 3.5 years. We can even further prove that by the ANTICHRIST, the eight king, that is given power to CONTINUE 42 months. It is the 7th king, the rider on the white horse that is in power during the majority of the 70th week.

 

These passages when coupled with what Paul quoted from Hosea proves there is a remnant of every generation of Israel who will be saved in the fulness of Christ up until the time our Father cuts it short:

Romans 11:7  What then? That which Israel seeketh for, that he obtained not; but the election obtained it, and the rest were hardened:

Romans 11:12  Now if their fall is the riches of the world, and their loss the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?

Ephesians 4:13  till we all(believing Jews with believing Gentiles) attain unto the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a fullgrown man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

Romans 9:27-28  And Isaiah crieth concerning Israel, If the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, it is the remnant that shall be saved:  (28)  for the Lord will execute his word upon the earth, finishing it and cutting it short.

Please study the phrase the "daughter of my people" as it is a much larger group than just physical Israel:

Jeremiah 8:19-20  Behold, the voice of the cry of the daughter of my people from a land that is very far off(mystery Babylon): is not Jehovah in Zion? is not her King in her? Why have they provoked me to anger with their graven images, and with foreign vanities?  (20)  The harvest is past, the summer is ended, and we are not saved.

These passages are all pointing to a corporate body that are presently on the earth today who will very shortly begin their role in the last 7 years:

Revelation 2:26-27  And he that overcometh, and he that keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give authority over the nations:  (27)  and he shall rule them with a rod of iron, as the vessels of the potter are broken to shivers; as I also have received of my Father:

Revelation 6:1-2  And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seven seals, and I heard one of the four living creatures saying as with a voice of thunder, Come.  (2)  And I saw, and behold, a white horse, and he that sat thereon had a bow; and there was given unto him a crown: and he came forth conquering, and to conquer.

Revelation 12:5-6  And she was delivered of a son, a man child, who is to rule all the nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and unto his throne.  (6)  And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that there they may nourish her a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

Revelation 14:1-5  And I saw, and behold, the Lamb standing on the mount Zion, and with him a hundred and forty and four thousand, having his name, and the name of his Father, written on their foreheads.  (2)  And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and the voice which I heard was as the voice of harpers harping with their harps:  (3)  and they sing as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four living creatures and the elders: and no man could learn the song save the hundred and forty and four thousand, even they that had been purchased out of the earth.  (4)  These are they that were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they that follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were purchased from among men, to be the firstfruits unto God and unto the Lamb.  (5)  And in their mouth was found no lie: they are without blemish.

The "abomination of desolation" is the daily sacrifice taken away for 1290 days:

Daniel 7:24-26  And as for the ten horns, out of this kingdom shall ten kings arise: and another shall arise after them; and he shall be diverse from the former, and he shall put down three kings.  (25)  And he shall speak words against the Most High, and shall wear out the saints of the Most High; and he shall think to change the times and the law; and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and half a time.  (26)  But the judgment shall be set, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end.

Daniel 9:27  And he shall make a firm covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease; and upon the wing of abominations shall come one that maketh desolate; and even unto the full end, and that determined, shall wrath be poured out upon the desolate.

Daniel 12:7-12  And I heard the man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and a half; and when they have made an end of breaking in pieces the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.  (8)  And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my lord, what shall be the issue of these things?  (9)  And he said, Go thy way, Daniel; for the words are shut up and sealed till the time of the end.  (10)  Many shall purify themselves, and make themselves white, and be refined; but the wicked shall do wickedly; and none of the wicked shall understand; but they that are wise shall understand.  (11)  And from the time that the continual burnt-offering shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand and two hundred and ninety days.  (12)  Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

 

[Moby]

12 hours ago, JohnR7 said:

I pretty much have everything I need. I do not eat much and I am pretty sure I could get by for a year on the food we have.  We keep looking for people we can give stuff to because we are running out of storage space. I have a lot of stuff I could sell or trade if I needed money. 

Father will provide all we need in our time of trouble as we walk by faith and not sight as He did to the Jews in their wilderness:

Deuteronomy 8:2-6  And thou shalt remember all the way which Jehovah thy God hath led thee these forty years in the wilderness, that he might humble thee, to prove thee, to know what was in thy heart, whether thou wouldest keep his commandments, or not.  (3)  And he humbled thee, and suffered thee to hunger, and fed thee with manna, which thou knewest not, neither did thy fathers know; that he might make thee know that man doth not live by bread only, but by everything that proceedeth out of the mouth of Jehovah doth man live.  (4)  Thy raiment waxed not old upon thee, neither did thy foot swell, these forty years.  (5)  And thou shalt consider in thy heart, that, as a man chasteneth his son, so Jehovah thy God chasteneth thee.  (6)  And thou shalt keep the commandments of Jehovah thy God, to walk in his ways, and to fear him.

[The Light]

1 hour ago, Moby said:

These passages when coupled with what Paul quoted from Hosea proves there is a remnant of every generation of Israel who will be saved in the fulness of Christ up until the time our Father cuts it short:

Romans 11:7  What then? That which Israel seeketh for, that he obtained not; but the election obtained it, and the rest were hardened:

Romans 11:12  Now if their fall is the riches of the world, and their loss the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?

Ephesians 4:13  till we all(believing Jews with believing Gentiles) attain unto the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a fullgrown man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

Romans 9:27-28  And Isaiah crieth concerning Israel, If the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, it is the remnant that shall be saved:  (28)  for the Lord will execute his word upon the earth, finishing it and cutting it short.

I don't dispute the fact that there will be Jews that will see that Jesus is the Messiah thru the years. But that does not change the FACT that there will be greater fullness as the word says of the Jews after the fullness of the Gentiles comes in. The 144,000 are the first fruits of this coming harvest. Learn the parable of the fig tree.

You also seem to want to ignore the timing of the regrafting of a huge harvest of the 12 tribes that happen during the 70th week of Daniel, a time for the people of Daniel.

 

1 hour ago, Moby said:

 

Please study the phrase the "daughter of my people" as it is a much larger group than just physical Israel:

Jeremiah 8:19-20  Behold, the voice of the cry of the daughter of my people from a land that is very far off(mystery Babylon): is not Jehovah in Zion? is not her King in her? Why have they provoked me to anger with their graven images, and with foreign vanities?  (20)  The harvest is past, the summer is ended, and we are not saved.

The 12 tribes across the earth will see that the early summer harvest is past when the SECRET pretribulation rapture of the Church occurs. They will know that the harvest is past and the summer has ended and they are not saved.

 

1 hour ago, Moby said:

These passages are all pointing to a corporate body that are presently on the earth today who will very shortly begin their role in the last 7 years:

Revelation 2:26-27  And he that overcometh, and he that keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give authority over the nations:  (27)  and he shall rule them with a rod of iron, as the vessels of the potter are broken to shivers; as I also have received of my Father:

Revelation 6:1-2  And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seven seals, and I heard one of the four living creatures saying as with a voice of thunder, Come.  (2)  And I saw, and behold, a white horse, and he that sat thereon had a bow; and there was given unto him a crown: and he came forth conquering, and to conquer.

Revelation 12:5-6  And she was delivered of a son, a man child, who is to rule all the nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and unto his throne.  (6)  And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that there they may nourish her a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

Sorry but I'm not one to fall for the corporate manchild jargon, the same jargon that you are afraid to reveal the source. If you are afraid to reveal the source of the manchild jargon, that should tell you something. If it was the truth you would be happy to proclaim the source.

Secondly, we see that the woman flees into here place of protection. Notice the she is not there for one year but is there for 3 and 1/2 years. Just another proof that the wrath of God lasts 3 and 1/2 years.

1 hour ago, Moby said:

Revelation 14:1-5  And I saw, and behold, the Lamb standing on the mount Zion, and with him a hundred and forty and four thousand, having his name, and the name of his Father, written on their foreheads.  (2)  And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and the voice which I heard was as the voice of harpers harping with their harps:  (3)  and they sing as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four living creatures and the elders: and no man could learn the song save the hundred and forty and four thousand, even they that had been purchased out of the earth.  (4)  These are they that were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they that follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were purchased from among men, to be the firstfruits unto God and unto the Lamb.  (5)  And in their mouth was found no lie: they are without blemish.

The 144,000 are 12,000 from each tribe of Israel. No corporate manchild nonsense is going to change the Word. These 1st fruits are a guarantee that there will be a huge harvest of Gods chosen people during the 70th week of Daniel. Additionally, the 70th week is about the people of Daniel and not about the Church as they are in heaven before the seals are opened.

 

1 hour ago, Moby said:

 

The "abomination of desolation" is the daily sacrifice taken away for 1290 days:

The Word says differently.

Dan 12

¹¹ And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

And from the time that the ice cream truck arrives and you have a Klondike bar in your mouth there will be 22 minutes.

Does that mean that the ice cream truck arrives 22 minutes after it arrives?

You would have more understanding if you would just read what the Word says and believe what the Word says.

1 hour ago, Moby said:

Daniel 7:24-26  And as for the ten horns, out of this kingdom shall ten kings arise: and another shall arise after them; and he shall be diverse from the former, and he shall put down three kings.  (25)  And he shall speak words against the Most High, and shall wear out the saints of the Most High; and he shall think to change the times and the law; and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and half a time.  (26)  But the judgment shall be set, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end.

Daniel 9:27  And he shall make a firm covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease; and upon the wing of abominations shall come one that maketh desolate; and even unto the full end, and that determined, shall wrath be poured out upon the desolate.

You  are confusing scriptures.

Daniel 7:24-26 is about the little horn, the Antichrist, the eighth king.

Daniel 9:27 is about the prince that shall come, the 7th king, the rider on the white horse in the 1st seal, who is an antichrist, who causes the earth to worship the Antichrist.

 

1 hour ago, Moby said:

 

Daniel 12:7-12  And I heard the man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and a half; and when they have made an end of breaking in pieces the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.  (8)  And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my lord, what shall be the issue of these things?  (9)  And he said, Go thy way, Daniel; for the words are shut up and sealed till the time of the end.  (10)  Many shall purify themselves, and make themselves white, and be refined; but the wicked shall do wickedly; and none of the wicked shall understand; but they that are wise shall understand.  (11)  And from the time that the continual burnt-offering shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand and two hundred and ninety days.  (12)  Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

 

This proves that there are 3 and 1/2 years after the coming of Jesus which occurs at the 6th seal (Matt 24, and Rev 14). Wrath begins with the opening of the seventh seal when the 1st trumpet is sounded. Wrath is 3 and 1/2 years long and the woman, the nation of Israel, is in a place prepared for her for 3 and 1/2 years.

Again, the wrath of God lasts 3 and 1/2 years.

[WilliamL]

On 9/18/2020 at 7:04 AM, iamlamad said:

Of course a few posttribers are wise enough to realize their theory blocks the way to the marriage, so their alternative is to move the marriage. How convenient! Why not leave the marriage and supper in heaven where John and the Holy Spirit put it, and change the false theory? Figure out how all those people got to heaven that we see before the marriage in chapter 19. 

The truth is, the marriage and supper are added proof of a pretrib rapture. Posttribbers have no way to get to heaven for the marriage.

 The marriage does not take place in chapter 19; it has already been accomplished by then.

19:7 ...for the marriage of the Lamb came, and His wife made herself ready.

That is why the focus of the chapter is on the imminent marriage supper, not the marriage, which is spoken of in a past tense.