Where'd everybody go?

[WilliamL]

1 minute ago, Tzephanyahu said:

Are you certain that his minions aren't able to get on here already?

Of course they are. Plenty of wolves in sheep's clothing, etc., wherever the Church is.

And because they have, as at the end of every age, infiltrated the leadership among God's people, dumbing them down and corrupting them wherever possible, our task becomes greater in rightly dividing the Word of Truth.

Too many in the ministry have not put in the hard work in the deep study of the Word. 

Hosea 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge.

I choose to persevere in the ministry of the Word despite all this. What else is there that matters?

 

 

 

[BeauJangles]

3 hours ago, WilliamL said:

My flip phone costs me $35.53 for 90 days. But smart phone fees, from what I've heard, are not cheap, and one is often bound by a long-term contract.

Mine is the same for 30 days. Unlimited everything on it. It has internet apps and I can use them but never do. It's too tedious and difficult to maneuver. 

3 hours ago, WilliamL said:

Also, phones are hackable as well as computers

That was my understanding also. 

3 hours ago, WilliamL said:

But what the heck do I know??

Sounds like we are both in the same ark bro. 

[Tzephanyahu]

1 hour ago, WilliamL said:

I choose to persevere in the ministry of the Word despite all this. What else is there that matters?

Amen. May Almighty Yahweh bless you in your ministry and bring you across the path of all you can serve, whatever the current and future state of the forum may be.

Love & Shalom 

[Henry_iain]

I am sharing a few thoughts here based on what I understand from this thread. Let me first say that as much as I like the idea of a thread being open to diverse viewpoints, I do not think that this forum will be everyone's cup of tea. 

These are thoughts I have also shared in other places, So some of you will recognise some of this. 

Also this will be a bit lengthy, so please be patient with me. 

Firstly I want to thank George and all who serve here. I have been in other forums, chats and discussion boards. And to me, this really ranks among the best there is. You do an amazing job and often while having to deal with so many different voices who have ideas of how things should be. And you do it with so much grace, all while having many other things on your plate.  We see it and thank you for it. May God bless you abundantly for what you have achieved here. 

The practical has become something I really value as a person in some ways over the years. I enjoy learning anyway, as I come from an academic/theological background. But because of this I have been bombarded by thousands of different sermons, messages and teachings over the years/ In my family alone we have people who are Greek Orthodox, atheists, Reformed, Anglican, Free spirited and Charismatic. I live in a small university town where there 40 churches and thousands of little groups all wanting to be heard. I can't listen to all of them At some point it just gets to much, especially when it is all so very theoretical.

I started asking myself 'so what am I supposed to do about this precisely and what exactly is going to happen when I do?" I also found myself coming to a decision about who I am going to trust and what voices I am going to allow to instruct me. If I don't, I will go crazy. Because of this I tend to be quite stubborn about certain things because I will not be moved by just anyone. I insist that anyone who wants to teach me must win my trust and be in an active relationship with me. I have found that this boundary has had good results because in general I don't really have to get worried  about people's claims and it means I do not easily get offended. And I know how to pick my battles

I must also note that I am from a social work background. I am a charismatic Christian. I think I am pretty conservative but I value balance quite a lot.  I am peace-loving and friendly. I enjoy being light hearted and humorous. Yet I can get very deep if I want to. I used to keep myself up at night thinking about all kinds of big questions and while I still do that sometimes, I find it has become easier to say no to certain mental debates when they won't result in peace. I also shy away from confrontation except when absolutely needed. I have had some very painful experiences from picking the wrong battles in such situations. Gradually the wounds healed and that is why I am still here.  This brings me to how I see online forums.

I studied social work with a strong focus on psychology. I care deeply about people. Especially for those in dire need. I also have a strong background in languages. And I have been on online forums for 16 years. I 35 now so it's close to half my life. Forums, especially this one, have great value. They are good for fellowship and it exposes one to people from different backgrounds. There is also the advantage of learning about what happens in other places. And yes some kinds of learning can certainly take place.

But there are also limits that I see. Because your medium is mostly written words, and because there are people from extremely different backgrounds, I don't really believe that such placed have the capacity to result in fruitful debate. Counselling yes. People can get saved, encouraged, healed. But you will not change someone's mind if it is already made up. I have never seen it happen. You cannot see the person. Very often you can't be sure they understand what they mean. Meaning is always so fickle. I think I especially notice it as an South African. South Africans have a very different way of seeing things very often. We would never approach a debate in the same way, as an American or even a Europeans would. So given too many variables, no body language to observe (emojis don't count), and often no clear parameters in terms of what our goals are, I just don't see how it can result in someone being persuaded from a position already held. And because they tend to get heated, they cannot really serve as edification either. So you see, to me, such discussions will never have much point. 

This is why I hang out mostly in the "nonsense” fellowship threads. And let me just point something out. Very often people only look at the “nonsense, and fail to read between the lines. We get to know each other, pray together, give each other advice (when asked for, it is no one's place to give advice when it hasn't been asked for). It is what I look for (I value fellowship very highly) and it is much more edifying. And then you have people who come into such threads to to tell us how pointless it is, how much space it takes up, etc. If you don't like these threads, don't go there. You have a right to dislike them but don't try to make those of us who go there feel bad because we do like them. It has also happened that some take an innocent, light hearted thread and turn it into a debate thread by force. 

I do admit this: I go overboard sometimes when it come to joking and teasing. I play hard But I don't mean to be nasty. I have developed a thick skin when it comes to joking and teasing, having been the victim of such things in school. But let me tell you this: I would never intentionally hurt anyone else.  When someone needs something I can give, I am here. If you are feeling down, I will listen.

 

Live and let live. I am all for diversity. I come from a country famous for its diversity. So I am used to hearing different views. I am sorry if, in the past, I have come across as attacking. I try my best to stay balanced , but of course, no opinion can remain that way absolutely. I pray that the Lord will bless you even if you disagree with me and I wish you peace and joy. 

 

[GandalfTheWise]

@Henry_iain  Very good post.

Being a Christian is much more about the social side of being with other Christians, actually living our lives, and spiritually growing than it is about dotting the i's and crossing the t's of various doctrinal matters (which all too often amounts to trying to proselytize those who disagree so that they'll be better Christians).

A number of years ago, God lead me to a Christian forum (which closed down many years ago) which had a huge impact in my life.  The core principle there was along the lines "you are a special creation of God and I will rejoice in that creation" and the guiding principle of interaction was "I will assume the best about this post I am reading."  It was at a time in my life where God took me out into a figurative desert for a time and that site was an oasis for me. 

There was a doctrinal section nicknamed "The Hockey Rink" where it was joked you needed to put on asbestos underwear before wading in and facing the flames.  There was a wider range of views there than here.  But, as soon as it was clear someone was struggling, that became the highest priority and any arguments dropped away.  I never waded into it much myself because it was too hot for me at the time.   But most people posted in the other sections and helped each other grow spiritually.  I really miss that place. 

For many, it was a place to be vulnerable in ways we rarely ever are.  One of the most frightening things for all of us is to reveal to others who we think God created us to be as unique individuals.  It's usually much easier for us to confess hidden sins, faults, and failings than it is to take off the mask and let others see who we are.  To be honest, most of us are much more ashamed to tell others who we think God made us to be than we are about sins and failings.  We hide behind labels and masks that are socially acceptable for fear of being laughed at or scorned.  Most of us are so used to seeing the masks in the mirror that we really don't know what our own face looks like anymore.  I'm not talking about gifts and talents (which I see as tools) or characteristics or demographics we have in common with others, but something more profound and deeper.  I mean the unique individual God created us to be.

That site was full of people pulling off masks and encouraging others as they did.  It was full of testimonies of healing, God's work in people's lives, and life experiences.  For probably about 6 to 9 months, I spent hours in the evening reading through past threads and posts.  I got to see God's working in various people's lives across years of posts and how they changed during that time.  There's no one who can tell you who God created you to be.  God just slowly helps us see ourselves, often by putting mirrors of various sorts in our way so we can see ourselves.  In hindsight, He'd been doing that my entire life, but I hadn't been recognizing it.

It was there I did what was perhaps the hardest thing I'd ever done.  All my online avatars and usernames had been some variation of stuff I was good at doing or some variation of a ministry such as guitarist, worship-leader, teacher, servant, didaskalos (Greek for teacher), and similar types of names.  It more or less reflected how I saw myself and was one of the masks I put on to show the world.   I'd been there for maybe six months, and it took me about two weeks of wrestling to finally change my username to what I knew God wanted me to and it was one of the scariest things I'd done.  It was a symbolic step but it meant leaving decades of comfortable mask-wearing and hiding behind.   I was honestly expecting remarks about it being silly or pretentious.  But instead, several people immediately gave encouraging words.  I remember the first post was from a young lady who said something like, "I just knew it.  That fits you so well."  The bottom line is that I think they were all seeing something that I hadn't myself.  Since then, I usually try to grab some variation of GandalfTheWise as a username as a reminder that my real purpose in places like this is to help people discover who God created them to be, to be encouraging, to help them shed unhelpful things, and to try to look through the various things they post to try to see that unique treasure and work of art God that has created them to be.

 

[keet]

On 11/28/2020 at 10:50 AM, GandalfTheWise said:

I was honestly expecting remarks about it being silly or pretentious.

Honestly, that was exactly what entered my mind when I saw your nickname.  However, once I read your posts, I was surprised and impressed to realize that it was accurate and not pretentious or silly at all.

[GandalfTheWise]

4 hours ago, keet said:

Honestly, that was exactly what entered my mind when I saw your nickname.  However, once I read your posts, I was surprised and impressed to realize that it was accurate and not pretentious or silly at all.

One of the biggest things God showed me many years ago is that He created every one of us to be, for lack of a better way to phrase it, epic in some unique way that shows His glory in a fallen world that is largely a spiritual battle zone.   As that happens, people will see God in what we do and His Spirit will naturally flow through us to those around us.  I now believe that our ministries are effective to the degree both that we grow spiritually and become more and more the person He created us to be.  I spent the first 3 decades or so as a Christian largely being a workaholic for God defining myself by gifts, talents, and ministry involvement and defining my "success" by how much fruit was being born by those things and how little I was sinning.  God sidelined me away from literally everything I was doing for a year or so, put me in front of a mirror, and I had no clue who I was looking at except that I'd gotten in the habit of thinking "Loser" to myself whenever I'd see myself in a real mirror.  As I started to see myself really for the first time and live life as that person, I found that ministry started to naturally flow with little effort and life became more peaceful.  My gifts and talents became tools to wield and use rather than what defined me.

There's an enemy and world out there that screams "who do you think you are to be anything special" to shame us and stop us all from becoming the person God created us to be.  I think this attack often starts as we are children and adolescents.   Now, I'm not talking about becoming Christians and the transformation that occurs to all of us as new creations in Christ where fruit of the Spirit becomes more evident as we grow and mature, but rather that each of us is a unique creation and work of art in some way that reflects God's glory differently than others.  I used to look at people and try to help them grow as Christians and to see their gifts and talents and callings to encourage them to do useful things and be busy serving God.  Now I look at people and try to see who it is that God created them to be so they can flourish, learn to walk with God in the way He created them to,  and so God's Spirit will naturally flow through them to the world around them.

When you look at people and try to see who that epic person is that God created them to be to reflect His glory in the midst of a world in spiritual warfare, it becomes a lot easier to be patient with them, encourage them, help tend their wounds, and watch their back.  Twenty years ago, I thought the Christian life was mostly "stop sinning and get busy serving God to show how thankful you are and how much you love Him".  Now, my emphasis is "Figure out who God created you to be and learn to walk with Him as that person He made you to be."  

 

[The Barbarian]

On 9/25/2020 at 2:22 PM, anynmsfmly said:

The word of God is becoming increasingly un-popular. 75% of my generation don't identify with any type of Christian religion, and consider America to be a hostile place.

I think the increasingly politicized Christian community (and it's not just on the right) has pushed many people away from the church.    I think when the divisions that plague our nation are healed, you'll see more interest in religion in general and Christianity in particular.

 

[Willa]

Closing the churches has been hard on people of faith.  Something that the memo to Hillary was saying, that thwarting the influence of the church on conservatives was crucial to the progressive cause.  Some of us have seen the habits and lifestyles shaken as we struggle to find alternatives to the way we have done things for years.  We are unable to fellowship or witness as effectively when we can't meet together in coffee shops anymore.  Wearing a mask and staying 6 feet away from others increases the estrangement.  We struggle with feelings of isolation and we grieve.  

This all takes its toll on worthy as well.  You would think we would be a part of the solution but I think people are angry about what is going on.  Christians have always been scapegoats. 

[WilliamL]

On 11/27/2020 at 7:45 AM, Henry_iain said:

Firstly I want to thank George and all who serve here. I have been in other forums, chats and discussion boards. And to me, this really ranks among the best there is. You do an amazing job and often while having to deal with so many different voices who have ideas of how things should be. And you do it with so much grace, all while having many other things on your plate.  We see it and thank you for it. May God bless you abundantly for what you have achieved here. 

Amen to that!

On 11/27/2020 at 7:45 AM, Henry_iain said:

Because your medium is mostly written words, and because there are people from extremely different backgrounds, I don't really believe that such placed have the capacity to result in fruitful debate. ... I just don't see how it can result in someone being persuaded from a position already held.

Ah, but persuading someone you are debating with is only a small part of the reason for debating. You may not realize it, but there are far more people who are not even members of the site that are reading it than members at any one time. The main point of open debate is to teach, and there are many who follow the discussion and learn from it who never make a single post on the topic. So debating provides useful information to these "lurkers" (as one such called himself); whereas fluffy discussions do not.

...avoid profane and idle babblings... 1 Tim. 6:20