Our Image

[Dennis1209]

2 minutes ago, Justin Adams said:

If one has a Divine Council world view, much of the Tanakh and the later writings make sense. If not, then popularist confusion abounds. Elohim are spirits, yet there is on ONE God that we call haElohim, haShem, Adoni, YHWH etc. 

It is all very simple if we get rid of the later Augustinian and RCC flavors and have a Deut 32 worldview of what is really happening and why.

We are made in God's Image. We are Imagers and should deport ourselves in a Godly manner as if God were present. We are to be and act as He would do and fulfill the roles of Sons and Daughters of The Most High.

Luke 11:2 (KJV) And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth.

The Lord ordained government on earth patterned after Heaven (the Divine Council) I do believe. By the way, am I getting echo's of anyone we know 

[Justin Adams]

17 minutes ago, Dennis1209 said:

Luke 11:2 (KJV) And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth.

The Lord ordained government on earth patterned after Heaven (the Divine Council) I do believe. By the way, am I getting echo's of anyone we know 

Dr Heiser. I have been in a long time study of most of his works over the years. Also Chuck Missler.

[Dennis1209]

2 minutes ago, Justin Adams said:

Dr Heiser. I have been in a long time study of most of his works over the years. Also Chuck Missler.

I've studied them both and continue to do so, have many of their books. Far be it from me to debate the likes of Heiser but; the only thing I've disagreed with him on is; he believes Noah's flood was a geographic localized event and not global. IMO there's way more evidence for the global flood. What's your view?

[Justin Adams]

2 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

I've studied them both and continue to do so, have many of their books. Far be it from me to debate the likes of Heiser but; the only thing I've disagreed with him on is; he believes Noah's flood was a geographic localized event and not global. IMO there's way more evidence for the global flood. What's your view?

I think Heiser is very cautious with his words. He said there might be evidence for a non global flood, but he did not say that was his position. Like me, he does not really care about a lot of the 'ideas' and 'systems' that people have. Likewise he takes no real firm eschatological view since he can expound very well on the flaws of all the 'systems' as he calls them.

Dr. Heiser is clever not to alienate people of differing views so that he can have center stage with views that are of greater importance. I see him as balanced and not willing to rock the boat without good reason. He does have some very good reasons for the the real stuff though. Thus he will rock a few ecumenical boats from time to time. He picks his battles. I pity anyone who tries to oppose him based on peer-review scholarship.

As far as Heiser's linguistic and ancient study material, I wish more would open their minds to understand how the ancient peoples thought and appreciated their own worldview in their own contexts - one that is totally foreign to us moderns. Some still 'forbid' us to read certain writings as if they will harm our faith. This attitude I find most constricting and smacks of the dark ages of ecumenical terrorizing. I still see that some of the seminaries practise this kind of scaremongering and find it most distasteful and unnecessary.

[Michael37]

5 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

In layman's terms, 'ĕlôhı̂ym means nothing more than a spirit, non flesh.

Hi Dennis, I hope you can update your computer soon and relocate in front of it. Mine is useful for definitions from Strong's Concordance and various study resources. You may have missed my point about the use of the plural 'ĕlôhı̂ym instead of the singular 'ĕlôahh or 'ĕlôahh in the context of our discussion about "Let us make man in our own image".

Strong H430
אֱלֹהִים
'ĕlôhı̂ym
el-o-heem'
Plural of H433; gods in the ordinary sense; but specifically used (in the plural thus, especially with the article) of the supreme God; occasionally applied by way of deference to magistrates; and sometimes as a superlative: - angels, X exceeding, God (gods) (-dess, -ly), X (very) great, judges, X mighty.
Total KJV occurrences: 2601

[Dennis1209]

2 hours ago, Justin Adams said:

I think Heiser is very cautious with his words. He said there might be evidence for a non global flood, but he did not say that was his position. Like me, he does not really care about a lot of the 'ideas' and 'systems' that people have. Likewise he takes no real firm eschatological view since he can expound very well on the flaws of all the 'systems' as he calls them.

Dr. Heiser is clever not to alienate people of differing views so that he can have center stage with views that are of greater importance. I see him as balanced and not willing to rock the boat without good reason. He does have some very good reasons for the the real stuff though. Thus he will rock a few ecumenical boats from time to time. He picks his battles. I pity anyone who tries to oppose him based on peer-review scholarship.

As far as Heiser's linguistic and ancient study material, I wish more would open their minds to understand how the ancient peoples thought and appreciated their own worldview in their own contexts - one that is totally foreign to us moderns. Some still 'forbid' us to read certain writings as if they will harm our faith. This attitude I find most constricting and smacks of the dark ages of ecumenical terrorizing. I still see that some of the seminaries practise this kind of scaremongering and find it most distasteful and unnecessary.

Justin, you're preaching to the choir my man 

Until I dug into it and started studying, I often wondered who was the nut case that got up that morning and decided; hey, let's worship and follow a frog god, or demi-god's of ancient cultures. When studying and reading the Bible, it helps tremendously trying to understand it from the Jewish perspective; what they thought, what they believed, what literature they read and what was available to them, etc. 

Today we're lucky to hear any prophecy from the pulpit and the signs of the times, much less a supernatural worldview of scripture and how we got to where we are today [the original fall; Genesis 6:1-4; tower of Babel]. 

[Dennis1209]

21 hours ago, Michael37 said:

To be made in God's image is to be the representation of what He has imagined. To me this is as simple as it gets but many struggle with it as being something more complex . . . unnecessarily I believe.

I'm just touching on one topic at a time for clarity and not to get confused. This could become a long theological debate, it's as simple as we want to make it, but I'll keep it short. 

I'm going to use abortion and women's rights as a representation. Biblically speaking, at what point are we human? At what point does medicine and secular society see a fetus as human [what's the definition of being human?]? The secular world keeps changing their minds on the stage of development of the fetus; now it's up to the time of delivery. Apples and oranges; at any stage it's murder. As addressed somewhere above:

Exodus 20:13 (KJV) Thou shalt not kill. What about a developing baby that's going to have Down Syndrome, mental defects, or is just a plain old inconvenience in the womb, an unwanted appendage? Are they "imagers" of God? What's the reason for "Thou shalt not kill" [murder] and why; are there any exceptions listed? 

I propose at the very moment of conception when the sperm and egg meet; the "imager" of God is created in His image. IMHO, we are created to represent God here on this earth [His imagers] and be ambassadors for Him. This is the only legal and moral argument against the murder of another human being. In effigy, they are murdering God's representatives [imagers]. This puts to rest any other secular conceivable argument for abortion, or intentional premeditated murder of another imager. 

[JohnR7]

On 10/23/2020 at 8:10 PM, Dennis1209 said:

whom do you suppose His audience was?

Looks like you are the audience. Genesis chapter one tells us that "God said". Even John tells us that Jesus is the "Word" of God. We know that God spoke creation into existence. (Psalm 33:9) God declares the end from the beginning. (Isaiah 46:10) At the foundation of creation: "the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy" (Job 38:7)

[JohnR7]

13 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

there's way more evidence for the global flood.

The Global flood took place at Pangea hundreds of millions of years ago. Although the ring of fire is very active today so this is still a current event that began a long time ago. Noah's flood is a shadow and a type of what happened at the supercontinent of pangea. The Rabbi call this an archetype. Cahn uses the word paradigm. The Bible is literal, symbolic and numeric all at the same time. People question the symbols but they are very universal. Every letter in the Hebrew alphabet has an exact and precise symbolic meaning. 

[JohnR7]

8 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

Biblically speaking, at what point are we human?

We are human at conception. Psalm 139:16. God writes the book of our life at or before conception. We have all of our gifts talents and abilities as a part of our DNA. We need to use what we have to bring praise, honor and glory to God.  Books are written to keep a record of how well we follow God's plan and purpose for us and our life. 

"And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works." (Rev 20:12)

This has to do with the word in Hebrew for the Breath of Life. "And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul." (Genesis 2:7) We are body, soul & spirit. Three in one - just as Father, Son & Holy Spirit are one.  Science uses the word singularity. Man is a duality or dichotomy represented by the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. 

Edited October 27, 2020 by JohnR7