The Different Inheritances.

[Marilyn C]

What is God` s Purpose?

First, we all know that God`s purposes are all in Christ.

`God…. He made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His kind intention which He purposed in Himself, with a view to an administration suitable to the fullness of the times, that is, the summing up of all things in Christ, things in the heavens and things on the earth. `  (Eph. 1: 9 & 10  NAS)

`…the purpose which He (Father) has cherished in His own mind of restoring the whole creation to find its one Head in Christ.` (Eph. 1:10 Wey)

We also know that - Christ is pre-eminent. (Col. 1: 18)

Christ is `far above all principality and power and might and dominion and every name that is named, not only in this age but also in the one to come. And (God the Father) put all things under His feet and gave Him as Head over all things…` (Eph. 1: 21 & 22)

Thus there will be a `summing up of all things in Christ,` they will come under the Headship of Christ. We know in Colossians that `all things,` involve many realms.

`For by Him (Christ) all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him.` (Col. 1: 16)

[Marilyn C]

So are God`s people all in the same realm or in different places?

I believe God`s word tells us that He has promised His people a place in His great Kingdom, an inheritance.

The Highest realm, the third heaven where the angels reside. The Lord Jesus Christ has His throne there and promised that those in the Body of Christ that they will be there also.

`To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with me on My throne as I also overcame and sat down with my Father on His throne.` (Rev. 3: 21)

 

The Universal heavens, lower down. This is where the planets and stars are. This realm has been promised to the Old Testament saints.

`Now they desire a better, that is, a heavenly country. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for He has prepared a city for them.` (Heb. 11: 16)

`Then I, John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God,..` (Rev. 21: 2)

There we see that the city comes down out of the (higher) heaven from God. This is God`s rulership in the Universal realm over the earth.

 

The Earth. There we are told that `the nations of the saved,` will be on the new earth. These are those who did not know of Christ but lived according to their conscience and were judged according to their works.

` And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books.` (Rev. 20: 13)

`And the nations of those who are saved shall walk in its(NJ) light, and the kings of the earth shall bring their glory and honour into it.` (Rev. 21: 24)  

So we see that each realm that the Lord made will have those in rulership under His Headship. They are all in God`s family and in His great kingdom encompassing all of His creation and realms.

 

An interesting topic to discuss…..

 

[Dennis1209]

John 14:2 (KJV) In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

Revelation 21:2 (KJV) And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

Greetings Marilyn: I interpret things just a bit differently. It appears to me that the New Jerusalem will be the bride of Christ's eternal home; as in all the saved during the age of Grace. My thoughts along with many other scholars are; we will spend only seven years in the Third Heaven [where the Father's Throne is located]. We [the Army of Christ] will accompany Him at His second coming, reign and rule with Him during the millennium, and the earth and new Jerusalem will be our eternal home.

Now since you brought it up, I have a few questions I'd like to get your thought on that I've pondered:

Whether it be cubed or a triangle, the New Jerusalem is going to be 1,400 (h) x 1,400 (l) x 1,400 (w) miles in diameter. As a pilot, last check there's not much air above 10,000 feet. I've wondered if the earth's atmosphere is going to drastically expand with the new creation? Or if we will require air to breath?

In addition, and I'm not complaining but... The word "mansion" is better translated as "room" in the Greek.

John 14:2 (KJV) In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. [emphasis added]

3665 μονή (monē), ῆς (ēs), ἡ (hē): n.fem.; ≡ Str 3438; TDNT 4.579—LN 85.76 dwelling place, room, abode (Jn 14:2, 23+) Swanson, J. (1997). Dictionary of Biblical Languages with Semantic Domains: Greek (New Testament) (electronic ed.). Oak Harbor: Logos Research Systems, Inc. 3665 μονή (monē), ῆς (ēs), ἡ (hē): n.fem.; ≡ Str 3438; TDNT 4.579—LN 85.76 dwelling place, room, abode (Jn 14:2, 23+) Swanson, J. (1997). Dictionary of Biblical Languages with Semantic Domains: Greek (New Testament) (electronic ed.). Oak Harbor: Logos Research Systems, Inc.

We will have our glorified bodies. Why would we need a room, abode or dwelling for? Get out of the weather; rest and sleep; privacy; entertainment??? You have any thoughts on this? By no means am I complaining or questioning; just wondering what we would use our own personal rooms for? 

 

Edited November 2, 2020 by Dennis1209

[Marilyn C]

5 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

 

Now since you brought it up, I have a few questions I'd like to get your thought on that I've pondered:

Whether it be cubed or a triangle, the New Jerusalem is going to be 1,400 (h) x 1,400 (l) x 1,400 (w) miles in diameter. As a pilot, last check there's not much air above 10,000 feet. I've wondered if the earth's atmosphere is going to drastically expand with the new creation? Or if we will require air to breath?

In addition, and I'm not complaining but... The word "mansion" is better translated as "room" in the Greek.

John 14:2 (KJV) In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. [emphasis added]

3665 μονή (monē), ῆς (ēs), ἡ (hē): n.fem.; ≡ Str 3438; TDNT 4.579—LN 85.76 dwelling place, room, abode (Jn 14:2, 23+) Swanson, J. (1997). Dictionary of Biblical Languages with Semantic Domains: Greek (New Testament) (electronic ed.). Oak Harbor: Logos Research Systems, Inc. 3665 μονή (monē), ῆς (ēs), ἡ (hē): n.fem.; ≡ Str 3438; TDNT 4.579—LN 85.76 dwelling place, room, abode (Jn 14:2, 23+) Swanson, J. (1997). Dictionary of Biblical Languages with Semantic Domains: Greek (New Testament) (electronic ed.). Oak Harbor: Logos Research Systems, Inc.

We will have our glorified bodies. Why would we need a room, abode or dwelling for? Get out of the weather; rest and sleep; privacy; entertainment??? You have any thoughts on this? By no means am I complaining or questioning; just wondering what we would use our own personal rooms for? 

 

Hi Dennis,

Good to talk with you. I`ll give you my thoughts on your question and then I have some for you.

Now I see the New Jerusalem details as relating to Christ`s rulership in the Universal realm, (principalities & powers). 

So 144 cubits.   ` And he measured its wall: 144 cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is, of an angel.` (Rev. 21: 17)

                                               

144 cubits – 144,000 bonded priests of God.    (Ex. 19: 6     Rev. 14: 1 – 5) 

cubit - Heb. `ammah,` a bond & `emah,` a multiple of 10,  eg 1,000.

 

So in regards to our bodies, we are told they will be like the Lord`s. (1 John 3: 2) I agree we don`t need homes, etc and all that entails. We will have a `spiritual body` (1 Cor. 15: 44) that is immortal & imcorruptible.  ( 1 Cor. 15: 52 & 53) We will be able to go through dimensions & our responsiblities & authority includes all of God`s great kingdom, from the highest to the lowest. (Rev. 3: 12)  

 

 

[Marilyn C]

6 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

John 14:2 (KJV) In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

Revelation 21:2 (KJV) And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

Greetings Marilyn: I interpret things just a bit differently. It appears to me that the New Jerusalem will be the bride of Christ's eternal home; as in all the saved during the age of Grace. My thoughts along with many other scholars are; we will spend only seven years in the Third Heaven [where the Father's Throne is located]. We [the Army of Christ] will accompany Him at His second coming, reign and rule with Him during the millennium, and the earth and new Jerusalem will be our eternal home.

 

 

Hi Dennis,

So you see the Lord and us coming down out of heaven from God and `living` in the New Jerusalem.

 

So how is the Lord`s throne then `far above all,` as the Father gave to Him? (Eph. 1: 20 - 22)

Why is the Lord`s throne then below the angels, and below where Lucifer ruled? (Isa. 14: 12 - 14)

And where does it say that the Father gave His Son rulership? (Ps. 2: 6)

And where does it say that Mount Zion comes down out of heaven from God? (Heb. 12: 22 & 23)

 

Just a few questions for you to think on.

[Retrobyter]

On 11/2/2020 at 5:04 PM, Marilyn C said:

What is God` s Purpose?

First, we all know that God`s purposes are all in Christ.

`God…. He made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His kind intention which He purposed in Himself, with a view to an administration suitable to the fullness of the times, that is, the summing up of all things in Christ, things in the heavens and things on the earth. `  (Eph. 1: 9 & 10  NAS)

`…the purpose which He (Father) has cherished in His own mind of restoring the whole creation to find its one Head in Christ.` (Eph. 1:10 Wey)

We also know that - Christ is pre-eminent. (Col. 1: 18)

Christ is `far above all principality and power and might and dominion and every name that is named, not only in this age but also in the one to come. And (God the Father) put all things under His feet and gave Him as Head over all things…` (Eph. 1: 21 & 22)

Thus there will be a `summing up of all things in Christ,` they will come under the Headship of Christ. We know in Colossians that `all things,` involve many realms.

`For by Him (Christ) all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him.` (Col. 1: 16)

Shalom, Marilyn.

First and foremost, one must understand that "Christ" comes from the Greek word "Christos" which means "an anointed One." It is the translation of the Hebrew word "Mashiyach," which also means "an anointed One." "Mashiyach" has been transliterated into English as "Messiah." So, one must understand that "Christ" = "Messiah."

That said, let's look at what you wrote with a substitution (or two if the context requires the definite article 'the'):

Quote

 

What is God`s Purpose?

First, we all know that God`s purposes are all in the Messiah.

`God…. He made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His kind intention which He purposed in Himself, with a view to an administration suitable to the fullness of the times, that is, the summing up of all things in the Messiah, things in the heavens and things on the earth. `  (Eph. 1: 9 & 10  NAS)

`…the purpose which He (Father) has cherished in His own mind of restoring the whole creation to find its one Head in the Messiah.` (Eph. 1:10 Wey)

We also know that - the Messiah is pre-eminent. (Col. 1: 18)

Messiah is `far above all principality and power and might and dominion and every name that is named, not only in this age but also in the one to come. And (God the Father) put all things under His feet and gave Him as Head over all things…` (Eph. 1: 21 & 22)

Thus there will be a `summing up of all things in Messiah,` they will come under the Headship of the Messiah. We know in Colossians that `all things,` involve many realms.

`For by Him (the Messiah) all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him.` (Col. 1: 16)

 

See, the problem with what you are saying is that "Christ" doesn't mean "God." "Christ" means "the Messiah" and specifically, that's the JEWISH Messiah. Also, you need to understand that "heaven" means "the sky." It's not a reference to some ethereal "Third Heaven" as "God's abode!"

I've tried before, but I'll try again. No one can predict if or when a person will see the truth of the simple facts of God's Word, but I'll keep trying with the hope that, maybe today, the Holy Spirit will turn on the lightbulb over a person's head.

Paul talked about the "third heaven" in 2 Corinthians 12:1-4:

2 Corinthians 12:1-4 (KJV)

1 It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord. 2 I knew a man in Christ (in the Messiah) above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven. 3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) 4How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

There is another place in Scripture that talks about the "third heaven."

2 Peter 3:3-13 (KJV)

3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, 4 And saying,

"Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation."

5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: 6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:

7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. 8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. 10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in allholy conversation and godliness, 12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? 

13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

1. The first heavens (plural because each land has its own sky), the first skies, were before the Flood.
- The Flood.
2. The second heavens are the present heavens, the present skies, after the Flood and before the Fire.
- The Fire.
3. The third heavens, the third skies, are after the Fire.

There were FIVE words (SIX, if you count the plural) in Greek that were translated as "heaven," "heavens," or "heavenly." They are...

ouranos = the "sky" [noun] (plural is ouranoi)
ouranothen = "from-[the]-sky" [adverb]
ouranios = "of or related to the sky" [adjective]
mesouraneema = "in the middle of the sky" [adjective]
epouranios = "of or related to above-the-sky" [adjective]

The Greek word "ouranos" is best seen in how Yeshua` used the word as opposed to how the Pharisees & Sadducees used the word in Matthew 16:1-4:

Matthew 16:1-4 (KJV)

1 The Pharisees also with the Sadducees came, and tempting desired him that he would shew them a sign from heaven (Greek: ek tou ouranou = "out of-the 'sky'/heaven"). 2 He answered and said unto them,

"When it is evening, ye say, 'It will be fair weather': for the sky (Greek: ho ouranos = "the sky") is red. 3 And in the morning, 'It will be foul weather to day': for the sky (Greek: ho ouranos = "the sky") is red and lowring. O ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky (Greek: tou ouranou = "of-the sky"); but can ye not discern the signs of the times? 4 A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given unto it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas."

And he left them, and departed.

So, while the Pharisees and Sadducees were pushing for a sign from "God's abode," Yeshua` used the SAME WORD to give them a "sign": "Red SKY at night is a sailor's delight; red SKY at morning is a sailor's sure warning!"

3772 ouranos (oo-ran-os'). Perhaps from the same as oros (through the idea of elevation); the sky; by extension, heaven (as the abode of God); by implication, happiness, power, eternity; specially, the Gospel (Christianity)
-- air, heaven(-ly), sky.

The Greek word "ouranothen" is an adverb used in Acts 14:17 and Acts 26:13:

Acts 14:17 (KJV)

17 Nevertheless he left not himself without witness, in that he did good, and gave us rain from heaven, and fruitful seasons, filling our hearts with food and gladness.

Acts 26:13 (KJV)

13 "At midday, O king, I saw in the way a light from heaven, above the brightness of the sun, shining round about me and them which journeyed with me."

While a "light" may be from above the sky, "rain" is definitely NOT! On the other hand, IF the "light" was actually FROM Yeshua` (and it was), then Yeshua` was IN the sky in order to talk with Paul ("Saul"). Sound cannot be heard in the vacuum of space; it needs the molecules of the air to propagate.

3771 ouranothen (oo-ran-oth'-en). From ouranos and the enclitic of source; from the sky
-- from heaven.

The Greek word "ouranios" is an adjective used nine times in Matthew 5:48; 6:14, 26, 32; 15:13; 18:35; 23:9; Luke 2:13; and Acts 26:19.

Matthew 5:48 (KJV)

48 "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven (Greek: ho Pateer humoon ho ouranios = "the Father of-you-all the-[One] coming-from-the-sky") is perfect."

You can look up the rest in Matthew, but they translate the same, "your heavenly Father" or "my heavenly Father" or "your Father, which is in heaven."

Luke 2:13-14 (KJV)

13 And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host (Greek: pleethos stratios ouraniou = "a-plethora of-host coming-from-the-sky")  praising God, and saying,

14 "Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men!"

Acts 26:19 (KJV)

19 "Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision (Greek: tee ouranioo optasia = 'to-the vision coming-from-the-sky'):"

3770 ouranios (oo-ran'-ee-os). From ouranos; celestial, i.e. Belonging to or coming from the sky
-- heavenly.

The Greek word "mesouraneema" is an adverb used three times, all in the book of Revelation: Revelation 8:13; 14:6; and 19:17.

Revelation 8:13 (KJV)

13 And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven (Greek: en mesouraneemati = "in mid-sky"), saying with a loud voice,

"Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound!"

Revelation 14:6 (KJV)

6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven (Greek: en mesouraneemati = "in mid-sky"), having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, ...

Revelation 19:17 (KJV)

17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven (Greek: en mesouraneemati = "in mid-sky"), "Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God; ..."

While the first two are talking about an "angel," the last verse is talking about the birds! They DEFINITELY fly in the earth's atmosphere!

3321 mesouraneema (mes-oo-ran'-ay-mah). From a presumed compound of mesos and ouranos; mid-sky
-- midst of heaven.

The Greek word "epouranios" is an adjective that is used in 19 places: John 3:12; 1 Corinthians 15:40 twice, 48 twice, 49; Ephesians 1:3, 20; 2:6; 3:10; 6:12;  Philippians 2:10; 2 Timothy 4:18; and Hebrews 3:1; 6:4; 8:5; 9:23; 11:16; and 12:22.  

Of the five (or six) Greek words, this is the ONLY one that could be talking about somewhere above the earth's atmosphere, and it is used in 1 Corinthians 15:40 and 41 for the sun, moon, and stars, which is definitely to what we refer to as "space" or "outer space."

2032 epouranios (ep-oo-ran-ee-os). From epi and ouranos; above the sky
-- celestial, (in) heaven(-ly), high.

I hope I haven't overwhelmed you or any other reader. My hope is that one will just consider what I've said. It's ALL biblical and the Greek is consistent and verifiable. Lord bless you.

[Marilyn C]

40 minutes ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, Marilyn.

 

Hi Retro,

You know I believe there is a realm beyond the Universe. 

Now can you please tell me where you believe the Lord Jesus Christ will rule in the New Heavens and New Earth? 

[Retrobyter]

On 11/4/2020 at 12:45 AM, Marilyn C said:

Hi Retro,

You know I believe there is a realm beyond the Universe. 

Now can you please tell me where you believe the Lord Jesus Christ will rule in the New Heavens and New Earth? 

Shalom, Marilyn.

He will rule from the highest foundation, the amethyst foundation, of the pyramidal city called the "New Jerusalem" or "Yerushalayim haChadashah" in Hebrew. Yeshua` the Messiah is the "HEAD STONE OF THE CORNER," the "CAPSTONE!" The "New Heavens" are the NEW SKIES around the New Earth! The word "heavens" is the Greek word "ouranoi!" The word means "SKIES!" It has absolutely NOTHING to do with the nebulous term "Universe!"

As far as believing in "a realm beyond the Universe," you get that SOLELY from a poor interpretation of 2 Corinthians 12:1-4! The "third heaven" is NOT spatially "third," numbered "1, 2, 3" as one leaves the earth's surface; it's CHRONOLOGICALLY "third!" It's like "past, present, and future," "1, 2, 3!" According to Peter in 2 Peter 3, the first "heaven" or the first sky was before the Flood of Noach's day. The second "heaven" or the second sky is that in which we CURRENTLY live and what we CURRENTLY breathe! The third "heaven" or the third sky will be the sky around the New Earth, after the Fire has burnt off this earth, preparing it for a re-forming that we see accomplished in Revelation 21:1-3 and 2 Peter 3:13 and 1 Corinthians 15:28 and telegraphed in 15:24!

Simply look at the evidence! There are many similarities that we see between the 1st earth and its 1st sky that we see mirrored in the 3rd earth and its 3rd sky! INVESTIGATE! Read Genesis 1-4 and compare that to Revelation 21-22! You will find MUCH that is the same (or better) in the 3rd earth and sky that was present (and lost) in the 1st earth and sky! God is REPAIRING (AND ENHANCING) WHAT HE CREATED!

As one of my pastors in the past once said, the best (and simplest) outline of the Bible is this:

I. What SHOULD be - Genesis 1, 2.
II. What IS - Genesis 3
III. How to get from what IS to what SHOULD be - Genesis 4-Revelation 22

 

Edited November 5, 2020 by Retrobyter
to fix a misspelling and a wrong chapter

[Retrobyter]

On 11/2/2020 at 6:54 PM, Dennis1209 said:

John 14:2 (KJV) In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

Revelation 21:2 (KJV) And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

Greetings Marilyn: I interpret things just a bit differently. It appears to me that the New Jerusalem will be the bride of Christ's eternal home; as in all the saved during the age of Grace. My thoughts along with many other scholars are; we will spend only seven years in the Third Heaven [where the Father's Throne is located]. We [the Army of Christ] will accompany Him at His second coming, reign and rule with Him during the millennium, and the earth and new Jerusalem will be our eternal home.

Now since you brought it up, I have a few questions I'd like to get your thought on that I've pondered:

Whether it be cubed or a triangle, the New Jerusalem is going to be 1,400 (h) x 1,400 (l) x 1,400 (w) miles in diameter. As a pilot, last check there's not much air above 10,000 feet. I've wondered if the earth's atmosphere is going to drastically expand with the new creation? Or if we will require air to breath?

In addition, and I'm not complaining but... The word "mansion" is better translated as "room" in the Greek.

John 14:2 (KJV) In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. [emphasis added]

3665 μονή (monē), ῆς (ēs), ἡ (hē): n.fem.; ≡ Str 3438; TDNT 4.579—LN 85.76 dwelling place, room, abode (Jn 14:2, 23+) Swanson, J. (1997). Dictionary of Biblical Languages with Semantic Domains: Greek (New Testament) (electronic ed.). Oak Harbor: Logos Research Systems, Inc. 3665 μονή (monē), ῆς (ēs), ἡ (hē): n.fem.; ≡ Str 3438; TDNT 4.579—LN 85.76 dwelling place, room, abode (Jn 14:2, 23+) Swanson, J. (1997). Dictionary of Biblical Languages with Semantic Domains: Greek (New Testament) (electronic ed.). Oak Harbor: Logos Research Systems, Inc.

We will have our glorified bodies. Why would we need a room, abode or dwelling for? Get out of the weather; rest and sleep; privacy; entertainment??? You have any thoughts on this? By no means am I complaining or questioning; just wondering what we would use our own personal rooms for? 

 

Shalom, Dennis1209.

If I may, the New Jerusalem will be 1,379.868686... miles (h) x 1,379.868686... miles (l) x 1,379.868686... miles (w).

(We can know such precision because this "furlong" or Greek "stadios" is the same as the ROMAN "stad," and they can be known in detail because of the Roman mile markers all over Europe that still exist. The Roman "stad" is 607.142222... feet long. So, ...

12000 stads ["furlongs"] x 607.142222... feet/stad / 5280 feet/mile = 1379.868686... miles)

So, that's why I think the foundations that are mentioned are foundational LEVELS of the city, each foundational level, encased within the jasper walls and the level above, containing its own atmosphere. (It's possible that many sub-levels also have their own atmosphere.)

"Glorified bodies" means that we will be normal, flesh and bone bodies (like our Master) that GLOW at different intensities and different hues! Currently, we all "glow" in the infrared region of the spectrum; in the future, we will glow in the visible light spectrum. We will be superhuman bodies, bodies that are immortal, incorruptible, and powerful, but we will still be PHYSICAL.  

Yeshua`s words were precise: Although He spoke Aramaic (a dialect of Hebrew), His words were translated into the Greek, and the Greek texts are all we have left. If there were any Aramaic versions of the Gospels, they were destroyed long ago in the anti-Semitic purge of the late 100s to 300s A.D. He said, "In my Father's house are MANY ROOMS (Greek: monai pollai); if it were not so I would have told you. I go to prepare a PLACE (Greek: topon) for you..." This suggests to me that we will each have a place within the New Jerusalem consisting of several rooms. Why do rich people have large houses? FOR PARTIES! Large houses provide plenty of space for gatherings with large groups of people. The larger and more elaborate the house, the bigger and more elaborate the parties one can host. Our themes for our parties, however, will be what God has done for us! They are places for us to brag on God's miracles and accomplishments in our lifetimes! They are MEMORIALS to God's great mercy and grace in our lives!

In Revelation 21, the New Jerusalem is likened to a Bedouin tent, like the "house" of Avraham.

Revelation 21:1-3 (KJV)

1 And I saw a new heaven (sky) and a new earth: for the first heaven (sky) and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. 2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven (out of the throne) saying,

"Behold, the tabernacle (Greek: skeenee = 'tent') of God is with men, and he will dwell (Greek: skeenoosei = 'he will tent') with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God."

This reflects what the author of Hebrews wrote in Hebrews 11 and 12:

Hebrews 11:8-16 (KJV)

8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went. 9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles (Greek: en skeenais, the locative plural of skeenee, = "in tents") with Isaac (his son) and Jacob (his grandson), the heirs with him of the same promise: 10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God. (The name "Adonay" means "One who lays a foundation [edown].") 11 Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised. 12 Therefore sprang there even of one, and him as good as dead, so many as the stars of the sky in multitude, and as the sand which is by the sea shore innumerable.

13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. 14 For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country. 15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned. 16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

Thus, the New Jerusalem was prepared for THEM, Avraham and Sarah, Yitschaq, and Ya`aqoV (Abraham and Sarah, Isaac, and Jacob)!

As a Bedouin's extended family grew, he would add on to his tent by making rooms of cloth off to one side of his tent, using a portion of what was once the outer wall, as a doorway and "door" or flap to the new section of tent. Very seldom was an entirely new tent made. Thus, Avraham had his extended family with him in his house until he passed away and his son - his heir, Isaac, would take over the tent. A man would take care of his elderly parents in the house in which he grew up, and a Bedouin tent was portable as he would follow his herds and flocks as they found new places on which to graze.

The New Jerusalem is God's "Bedouin tent" (Greek: skeenee), and although currently it is portable above the sky, when its foundations are established (sunk in the ground), it will no longer be moved. It is a "city which hath foundations." At least the first foundation, that of jasper, shall be set in the ground to provide an unshakable substructure on the New Earth for the city's walls and buildings.

The first foundation being sunk into the ground is ONE reason for believing that the New Jerusalem will indeed land upon the New Earth. Another reason is that the city is said to be aligned with north by having "an east side, a north side, a west side, and a south side."

Revelation 21:10-13 (KJV)

10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, 11 Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal; 12 And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel: 13 On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates.

Furthermore, we are told that the kings of the earth will go in and out through these gates:

Revelation 21:24-26 (KJV)

24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it. 25 And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there. 26 And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it.

Another reason for believing that the city will land on the New Earth are the RIVERS OF WATER OF LIFE! Trace their flow:

Revelation 21:21, 22:1-2 (KJV)

21 And the twelve gates were twelve pearls; every several gate was of one pearl: and the street of the city was pure gold, as it were transparent glass.
...

1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb. 2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

So, the river of water of life has its source in the throne of God and of the Lamb. It flows down the middle of the street, and where does the street go? It divides and leads to the gates of the city! Therefore, the river divides and flows out of the gates onto the surface of the New Earth!

This city is HUGE!!! It's COLOSSAL!!! The circumference of the present earth is 24,901 miles. I would expect the New Earth, made from this present one after the Fire, to have similar measurements. Thus, 1379.868686... miles / 24901 miles = 19.95 degrees / 360 degrees! So, that means that "down" on one side of the New Jerusalem will be almost 20 degrees different than "down" on the opposite side of the city, and both sides will be almost 10 degrees different than "down" in the center of the city! Think about how that fact messes with the cube theory of the New Jerusalem! If the New Jerusalem was indeed a true cube shape, then its walls would be slanted in 10 degrees on both sides of the city! Thus, the top of the cube would appear to be SHORTER compared to the distance at its base! If the top was made to cover the same distance as its base, so that the walls would be perpendicular to the surface of the earth, then its top would be MUCH LONGER in reality to its base!

The pyramid theory of the shape of the city works in TWO ways! First, the 10 degrees difference is still in play for the pyramid whose length of one side at the base is the same as its height to the pinnacle. Since the base of the pyramid follows the curvature of the earth, that distance is an arc of the circumference. The chord that cuts through the earth providing a straight line between endpoints of the arc, would be shorter than the arc. Let's call the arc "s," the chord "c," and the 19.95 degrees "theta" or "t" for short. Knowing that a radius of the earth ("r") would bisect both the chord and the arc, providing right angles to the chord (and to the tangent at that point on the arc), then the length of "c" would be 2r x |sin (t/2)| (since we are interested in distance and it doesn't matter in which quadrant the angle is found). We also know that the length of s is found as s = rt (the angle "t" in radians). Also, the conversion between the angle "t" in radians to the angle "t" in degrees is...

t (in degrees) = 360 degrees / (2 x pi radians) x t (in radians)

Thus, t (in radians) = s/r, and this converts to t (in degrees) = 360/(2 x pi) x s/r, and we can plug that into the other equation,
c = 2 x r x |sin (t/2)| as...

c = 2 x r x |sin (360s/2(2 x pi)r)| such that the sine is calculated for degrees. Since we know that "r" is the circumference of the earth divided by 2 x pi, r = 24901/(2 x 3.14159265) = 3963.12 miles. If we plug in 1379.868686... miles for s and 3903.21 miles for r, we can calculate c to be...

c = 2 x 3963.12 miles x|sin (1379.868686.../(2 x 3963.12))| = 1372.91 miles. Furthermore, the distance deep to this chord ("d", "depth") would be the radius of the earth minus the cosine of the angle t/2 times the radius of the earth. 

d = r - r cos (t/2) = 59.9 miles.

This gives us the true triangle where the chord is the base of the triangle, 1,372.91 miles, and the height of the triangle as 1,379.868686 miles + 59.9 miles = 1,439.77 miles. Thus, we can now calculate the pinnacle angle, and one of the base angles, such that all three angles in the triangle will add up to 180 degrees.

The tangent of the base angle is equal to the side opposite (the height) divided by the adjacent side (1/2 the chord):

tan alpha = 1439.77 / (1372.91 / 2) = 2.0974. Thus, alpha = arctan (2.0974) = 64.51 degrees, and the pinnacle angle, beta:

beta = 180 degrees - 2 (alpha) = 180 degrees - 2(64.51 degrees) = 50.98 degrees. Note, too, that each of the base angles (alpha) are decreased by the same 9.975 degrees that the cube showed, and one arrives at adjusted base angles of 54.54 degrees. So, up close, one will see the pinnacle angle of 51 degrees and the base angles of 54 1/2 degrees and conclude that the triangle is almost an equilateral triangle, suggesting that the measured distance along one side of the pyramid will be about the same as the height of the pyramid. Indeed, because straight lines appear curved at a distance, we will SEE the pyramid as having a near equilateral appearance!

From far away, say 5,000 miles or more, the pyramid will be more visibly seen to have a true height the same as its width! Thus, the pyramid form fits the facts better in BOTH cases, where the cube FAILED in both cases!

One more thing, and then I'm done for now: In a cube, where would God's throne be? Wouldn't one expect it to be at the center of the cube? Then how does the water, which flows from the throne of God and of the Lamb make its way to the higher parts of the New Jerusalem?

In a pyramid, where would God's throne be? Wouldn't one expect it to be in the pinnacle of the New Jerusalem? After all, Yeshua` IS called the "head stone of the corner," or the "capstone," in Psalm 118:22. NOW, where does the water go? It flows DOWNWARD (as normally expected due to gravity), following the streets throughout the city, and exiting the city onto the New Earth through all twelve of its always-open gates.

[Retrobyter]

On 11/2/2020 at 5:04 PM, Marilyn C said:

What is God` s Purpose?

First, we all know that God`s purposes are all in Christ.

`God…. He made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His kind intention which He purposed in Himself, with a view to an administration suitable to the fullness of the times, that is, the summing up of all things in Christ, things in the heavens and things on the earth. `  (Eph. 1: 9 & 10  NAS)

`…the purpose which He (Father) has cherished in His own mind of restoring the whole creation to find its one Head in Christ.` (Eph. 1:10 Wey)

We also know that - Christ is pre-eminent. (Col. 1: 18)

Christ is `far above all principality and power and might and dominion and every name that is named, not only in this age but also in the one to come. And (God the Father) put all things under His feet and gave Him as Head over all things…` (Eph. 1: 21 & 22)

Thus there will be a `summing up of all things in Christ,` they will come under the Headship of Christ. We know in Colossians that `all things,` involve many realms.

`For by Him (Christ) all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him.` (Col. 1: 16)

Shalom, Marilyn.

We need to get some things straight here. First, in saying, "God`s purposes are all in Christ," one is saying that "God's purposes are all in the MESSIAH!" The two terms are synonymous, only the language of origin is different. "Christ" is from the Greek word "Christos" meaning "Anointed [One]," and "Messiah" is from the Hebrew word "Mashiyach" also meaning "Anointed [One]."

There's also an error in definition from a misinterpretation of Peter's confession.

Matthew 16:13-17 (KJV)

13 When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying,

"Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?"

14 And they said,

"Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets."

15 He saith unto them,

"But whom say ye that I am?"

16 And Simon Peter answered and said,

"Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God."

17 And Jesus answered and said unto him,

"Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven."

Some understand by this that Peter was saying that the definition of "the Christ" is "the Son of the living God."

But, Kefa ("Cephas" or Peter) was not giving two names to the same thing; he was establishing TWO facts! Yeshua` was both "the Christ" and also "the Son of the living God." While these two titles are related, they are NOT the same thing!

"The Christ" means that Yeshua` is the ANOINTED of God! The word "Anointed" means One who is "Rubbed" or "Massaged" with the Holy Anointing Oil, that which represented the Ruwach haQodesh Elohiym, the Holy Spirit of God! God's CHOICE for the One who will be Israel's greatest King!

"The Son of the living God" comes from the Davidic Covenant:

2 Samuel 7:1-17 (KJV)

1 And it came to pass, when the king sat in his house, and the LORD had given him rest round about from all his enemies; 2 That the king said unto Nathan the prophet,

"See now, I dwell in an house of cedar, but the ark of God dwelleth within curtains." 

3 And Nathan said to the king,

"Go, do all that is in thine heart; for the LORD is with thee."

4 And it came to pass that night, that the word of the LORD came unto Nathan, saying, 

5 "Go and tell my servant David, 'Thus saith the LORD, "Shalt thou build me an house for me to dwell in? 6 Whereas I have not dwelt in any house since the time that I brought up the children of Israel out of Egypt, even to this day, but have walked in a tent and in a tabernacle. 7 In all the places wherein I have walked with all the children of Israel spake I a word with any of the tribes of Israel, whom I commanded to feed my people Israel, saying, 'Why build ye not me an house of cedar?'"'

8 "Now therefore so shalt thou say unto my servant David, 'Thus saith the LORD of hosts, "I took thee from the sheepcote, from following the sheep, to be ruler over my people, over Israel: 9 And I was with thee whithersoever thou wentest, and have cut off all thine enemies out of thy sight, and have made thee a great name, like unto the name of the great men that are in the earth. 10 Moreover I will appoint a place for my people Israel, and will plant them, that they may dwell in a place of their own, and move no more; neither shall the children of wickedness afflict them any more, as beforetime, 11 And as since the time that I commanded judges to be over my people Israel, and have caused thee to rest from all thine enemies." Also the LORD telleth thee that he will make thee an house. 12 "And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom. 13 He shall build an house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever. 14 I WILL BE HIS FATHER, AND HE SHALL BE MY SON. If he commit iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men, and with the stripes of the children of men: 15 But my mercy shall not depart away from him, as I took it from Saul, whom I put away before thee. 16 And thine house and thy kingdom shall be established for ever before thee: thy throne shall be established for ever."'"

17 According to all these words, and according to all this vision, so did Nathan speak unto David.

This was a PROPHECY concerning the Messiah Yeshua` (the Christ Jesus)! Yochanan (John), His beloved friend and disciple, gave us the additional information upon which most Gentile Christians focus:

John 1:1-18 (KJV)

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe. 8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.

9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. 10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. 11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not. 12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of THE ONLY BEGOTTEN [SON] OF THE FATHER,) full of grace and truth. 15 John bare witness of him, and cried, saying,

"This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me. 16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace. 17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. 18 No man hath seen God at any time; THE ONLY BEGOTTEN SON, WHICH IS IN THE BOSOM OF THE FATHER, he hath declared him."

John 1:29-34 (KJV)

29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith,

"Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world. 30 This is he of whom I said, After me cometh a man which is preferred before me: for he was before me. 31 And I knew him not: but that he should be made manifest to Israel, therefore am I come baptizing with water."

32 And John bare record, saying,

"I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him. 33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, 'Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.' 34 And I saw, and bare record that THIS IS THE SON OF GOD."

However, most Christians fail to see that this is the fulfillment of the Davidic Covenant! They don't know it because they were never taught the Davidic Covenant!

Regarding Ephesians 1:9-10 and 21-22, it's always best to read verses within their context:

Ephesians 1:3-23 (KJV)

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ (our Master Yeshua` the Messiah), who (God the Father) hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places (Greek: en tois epouraniois = "in the [places]-above-the-sky") in Christ (in [the] Messiah): 4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: 5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, 6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the Beloved. 7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace; 8 Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence; 9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself: 10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven (Greek: epi tois ouranois = "upon/above the skies"), and which are on earth (Greek: epi tees gees = "upon/above the earth"); even in him: 11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: 12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. 13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation (the good news of your rescue): in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, 14 Which is the earnest (down payment) of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession (our resurrection), unto the praise of his glory (the fame of His brightness [at His coming]). 

15 Wherefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus, and love unto all the saints, 16 Cease not to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers; 17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him: 18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling (the RESURRECTION), and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints, 19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power, 20 Which he wrought in Christ, WHEN HE RAISED HIM FROM THE DEAD, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places (Greek: en tois epouraniois = "in the [places]-above-the-skies"), 21 Far above (LITERALLY!) all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come: 22 And hath put all things under his feet (LITERALLY!), and gave him to be the head over all things to the church, 23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

The same is true for Colossians 1:16, 18:

Colossians 1:3-20 (KJV)

3 We give thanks to God and the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, praying always for you, 4 Since we heard of your faith in Christ Jesus, and of the love which ye have to all the saints, 5 For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven (Greek: en tois ouranois = "in the skies"), whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel; 6 Which is come unto you, as it is in all the world; and bringeth forth fruit, as it doth also in you, since the day ye heard of it, and knew the grace of God in truth: 7 As ye also learned of Epaphras our dear fellowservant, who is for you a faithful minister of Christ; 8 Who also declared unto us your love in the Spirit.

9 For this cause we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to desire that ye might be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding; 10 That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God; 11 Strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness; 12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: 13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: 14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: 15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: 16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: 17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. 18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence (to hold the first place). 19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell; 20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth (Greek: ta epi tees gees= "the-things upon/above the earth/ground"), or things in heaven (Greek: ta en tois ouranois = "the-things in the skies").