Controversial Christian topics with practical differences based on belief

[Starise]

One thing I don't do  is dig into peripheral beliefs of a brother or sister in Christ as a way to judge them. At least not intentionally. I do think these are interesting discussions to have in love on the forum though. Some may have felt judged by answers to the contrary. It wasn't intentional.

The BIG ONE here is the issue raised in the Bible that draws a clear line between those who are believers and those who are not. Anyone who has a form of godliness but denies the power thereof is not a believer. Not according to me. According to the Bible. Specifically Christ and His power to atone for our sins and the requirement that we make that personal commitment to Him in order to be His is the one mandatory thing. Ref 2 Timothy 3:5-7

The Bible clearly says light can have no fellowship with darkness.

Assuming the people we are talking about are all believers, I think there should be room for patience, understanding and simply accepting that not everyone will see things the same way you see them. 

Some people are still growing within their internal spiritual rationalization processes....I think arriving at good answers sometimes takes lots of time, study and gentle discussion showing the facts as we know them to be. I believe some people see their roles as those who are called to convince everyone to see it their way. I don't necessarily agree with this. I believe we are to look in the mirror at ourselves first. I don't think anyone can honestly say they've arrived.

Many Christians spend lots of time in study and become convinced of their particular views. Sometimes they are attempting to re enforce an existing view to have peace within themselves. I think the best study methods involve always being open minded. I don't study to tell others what I think I know, I mostly study for ME. If I end up discussing my study and it helps someone or they help me great!

The Bible is mainly a book about God, His love and His judgement. Yahweh's answers to mankind's biggest dilemmas, mainly sin, being sinful and God's answer. It isn't primarily a history book or a book of science or even a book about the details going on in the world. It fills those gaps nicely sometimes and other times we don't find exactly the answers we want. THIS is where the trouble between believers often occurs in looking at the end times, creation and so forth. If you have an answer pray that God in His love reveals that answer to someone else. Maybe state what you believe and let it at that. Accept that not everyone will see it the same way. 

There are motives for some rationalizations. A person might say " It can't be this and it can't be that, I believe it was this instead." What if it isn't any of those? Sometimes we force an answer into a place simply because it's the only answer that makes sense to us.

Sometimes those who might be further along in their walk have the answers they are comfortable with and for the most part are the most feasible answers given the texts and translations we have. Someone else comes along with an off the wall answer. For the sake of love and unity we might need to explain kindly, bite our tongue and walk away. In most cases it doesn't matter so far as that person's relationship to Christ is concerned. 

I do know one thing, if God is doing something it doesn't matter what someone thinks about it. Just be sure it IS God because there are counterfeits out there. 

I believe we can learn from and sharpen one another. In order to do that we need two open minds and hearts.

 

 

[NotAllThere]

23 hours ago, Michael37 said:

You may have heard of cognitive dissonance which is the state of having inconsistent thoughts, beliefs, or attitudes, especially as relating to behavioural decisions and attitude change.

Whenever I encounter Theistic Evolutionists I make them aware of the inconsistency of their belief with the Bible, particularly the doctrines in Romans 5 and 1 Corinthians 15. As gently as possible for me I inform them that they cannot hold a belief in Theistic Evolution and consider themselves Bible-believers at the same time.

Another example of cognitive dissonance I have encountered is a dogmatic belief that by accepting Christ as our Saviour we are now perfect. This became a big issue in one fellowship I was part of and the profoundly ironic situation developed wherein the new young leader and his wife who were pushing "perfectionism" singled out those who did not endorse it for rebuke and correction. . . something you would assume isn't needed among those who have accepted Christ as their Saviour if doing so makes them perfect.

Wasn't it Sturgeon who, on encountering a young man insisting on the doctrine of sinless perfection, poured a jug of milk over his head to demonstrate that he wasn't quite as sinless as he might think...

I really don't care about creationism. It seems to me to be singularly unimportant in the doctrines that relate to salvation and sanctification. However, maybe I don't care because I didn't study biology after the age of 13 - concentrating on real science, like Physics. 

(I have to say though that I do find biochemistry quite fascination. And immunology of course!)

Edited November 16, 2020 by NotAllThere

[David1701]

1 minute ago, NotAllThere said:

Wasn't it Sturgeon who, on encountering a young man insisting on the doctrine of sinless perfection, poured a jug of milk over his head to demonstrate that he wasn't quite as sinless as he might think...

I really don't care about creationism. It seems to me to be singularly unimportant in the doctrines that relate to salvation and sanctification. However, maybe I don't care because I didn't study biology after the age of 13 - concentrating on real science, like Physics. 

(I have to say though that I do find biochemistry quite fascination. And immunology of course!)

A sturgeon is a fish (or the First Minister of Scotland, if the forename is Nicola).  I think you mean C. H. Spurgeon.

You don't care about Creationism?  Then you don't care about Genesis 1-3; and, if you don't care about the foundations, do you care about anything at all?

[NotAllThere]

12 hours ago, David1701 said:

A sturgeon is a fish (or the First Minister of Scotland, if the forename is Nicola).  I think you mean C. H. Spurgeon.

You don't care about Creationism?  Then you don't care about Genesis 1-3; and, if you don't care about the foundations, do you care about anything at all?

Spurgeon - of course. Doh! I thank you. 

I don't care about Creationism, so I don't care about Genesis 1-3? Now there's a non-sequitur. And a false conclusion as well, since I do care about those chapters. But well done you for examplifing exactly the kind of response I was talking about it earlier. 

I don't care for Creationism because while one version may be true - it isn't science. I'm sure that when we get to be with the Lord, if we so care, we can view what really happened at Creation and see how it accords entirely with Genesis 1-11 (never mind 1-3).

The foundation of my faith is Jesus Christ.

[GandalfTheWise]

16 hours ago, NotAllThere said:

However, maybe I don't care because I didn't study biology after the age of 13 - concentrating on real science, like Physics. 

Another physicist here?  

[enoob57]

On 11/14/2020 at 9:41 AM, keet said:

I should amend that to say "which... doctrine... do you think is most significant...?"  since I don't expect agreement or consensus, but am just gathering ideas.

To make God's Word that which reforms my mind, way and will.... making it more of value than my daily bread....

[keet]

On 11/14/2020 at 10:39 PM, JohnR7 said:

God has impressed upon me many times that He is a God of absolute perfect Justice.  The issue with Hell is that people claim that Hell is not just. So our understanding of Hell has to coincide with our understanding of the Justice of God. 

I agree with this, mostly.  There are aspects of some interpretations of Hell that seem unjust to me.  In that case, either my understanding of justice is faulty, or that interpretation of Hell is faulty.  In reality, both are probably true.  I prefer to trust in God's love and justice than spend too much time trying to form a perfectly consistent doctrine on Hell (or most other things), and trust that the paradoxes are or will be resolved, whether I understand them now or not.  That's not to say that it's not an interesting subject of debate, because it is, and it could be beneficial to some extent to know what it is like, but at some point, if no resolution occurs, I prefer to let it be and trust God.

[keet]

On 11/16/2020 at 10:00 AM, Starise said:

Many Christians spend lots of time in study and become convinced of their particular views. Sometimes they are attempting to re enforce an existing view to have peace within themselves. I think the best study methods involve always being open minded. I don't study to tell others what I think I know, I mostly study for ME. If I end up discussing my study and it helps someone or they help me great!

Definitely.  I find the relationship between God and time to be particularly fascinating, and have lots of ideas and reading on the nature of time itself and how God interacts/relates to it.  Do I expect most other people to care?  Not at all.  Do I think it really matters or affects anything whether I know or understand it?  Again, not really.  I just enjoy reading and thinking about it sometimes.

[keet]

On 11/15/2020 at 4:12 PM, Michael37 said:

You may have heard of cognitive dissonance which is the state of having inconsistent thoughts, beliefs, or attitudes, especially as relating to behavioural decisions and attitude change.

This is another good point.  It is important for us to make sure that our beliefs are consistent, both internally in terms of logic and externally in terms of corresponding to reality/observation/the Bible.  If our beliefs are inconsistent, it can indicate or cause a problem because our minds are somewhat divided -- either from themselves (logic) or from reality.  Ideally, our beliefs are logically consistent and correspond perfectly with reality.  Since our beliefs influence and determine how we act (and feel), then, we can't simply disregard the importance of correct beliefs.

Edited November 17, 2020 by keet

[keet]

20 hours ago, David1701 said:

A sturgeon is a fish (or the First Minister of Scotland, if the forename is Nicola).  I think you mean C. H. Spurgeon.

To make it worse, his middle name is Haddon, which is similar to Haddock.  The man has a fishy name, for sure.