R. Hartono Posted December 7, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 774 Topics Per Day: 0.34 Content Count: 6,949 Content Per Day: 3.06 Reputation: 1,984 Days Won: 1 Joined: 02/15/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted December 7, 2020 (edited) Some people say christians must go thru the Great Tribulation to be tested thru fire whether they are worthy or not but the wise virgins have already been tested and proven Faithful to keep the OIL of Holy Spirit that they are worthy to be taken to the Feast of the Lamb, and therefore there is no purpose for them (the church) in the Great Tribulation, the time of Jacob's trouble. The Great Tribulation is no purgatory for the church who endured patiently as the wise virgins who keep the OIL, Rev 3:10 Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come on the whole world to test the inhabitants of the earth. The Great Tribulation will be a total destruction and global annihilation of this present unGodly civilization of mankind that man will faint only to expect what destruction will come the next day and this is why the foolish virgins scream "Lord Loord take us in", as they see the coming incomparable global destruction of calamities, war, famine, plague and murder everywhere, no peace at all and people killing each other, Luke 21:26 Men fainting for fear, and for expectation of the things which are coming on the world: for the powers of the heavens will be shaken. There will be saints in the Great Tribulation and these are the foolish virgins left behind who has purchased some oil (renew their faith by witnessing the mighty rapture of the wise virgins) and the left behind people who believe the 2 Witnesses, the 144000 servants of God and the angel proclaiming Gospel. These people shall be called saints shud they dare to resist the beast antichrist and its mark. Would God let the church as the bride of Christ being beaten black and blue first and beheaded, then resurrect her for marriage, that sounds like Frankenstein's bride, doesnt it ? The problem is, the antichrist's NWO government will arrest those who refuse to worship the beast and receive its mark and take them to the antichrist for death sentence, its the fate of the foolish virgins if they refuse to be the bride of antichrist (the Frankenstein whose head had a fatal wound, but the fatal wound had been healed) Thats why the foolish virgins scream because they are left behind and they knew the horror of tribulation is coming to the whole world "Lord, Lord, open to us. But He answered and said, Truly I say to you, I know you not" and they shall be taken to the wrong bridegroom. Isaiah 26:20 Go, My people, enter your rooms and SHUT THE DOOR behind you; hide yourselves for a little while until His wrath has passed by. 21 For, behold, the Lord cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain. Matt 25:10 But while they were on their way to buy the oil, the bridegroom arrived. The virgins who were ready went in with him to the wedding banquet. And THE DOOR WAS SHUT. (The door was shut for the wedding Feast of the Lamb). Edited November 11, 2023 by R. Hartono Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keras Posted December 10, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 57 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,688 Content Per Day: 0.63 Reputation: 301 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/31/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/07/1941 Share Posted December 10, 2020 Those people who have been proved worthy by their faith, they had sufficient oil; will not experience the Great Tribulation. Revelation 12:14 says they will be taken to a place of safety, [on earth] for the 1260 days until Jesus Returns. Those who failed the faith test, must remain. Revelation 12:17 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diaste Posted December 11, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 14 Topic Count: 67 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 6,635 Content Per Day: 1.99 Reputation: 2,371 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/17/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted December 11, 2020 On 12/7/2020 at 4:24 AM, R. Hartono said: Some people say christians must go thru the Great Tribulation to be tested thru fire whether they are worthy or not but the wise virgins have already been tested and proven Faithful to keep the OIL of Holy Spirit that they are worthy to be taken to the Feast of the Lamb, and therefore there is no purpose for them (the church) in the Great Tribulation, the time of Jacob's trouble. Well...not exactly. GT is a time in the 70th week, not the whole 70th week. And the wise virgins are waiting on the Groom, not enduring anything. The point of the analogy was to keep your lamp full and wait on the coming of the Groom. On 12/7/2020 at 4:24 AM, R. Hartono said: Rev 3:10 Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come on the whole world to test the inhabitants of the earth. Yes, but this is speaking to a forcible abduction. Jesus is saying saying He will set a guard or a watch over those that kept His word while in the hour. This is not a taking away from that time. On 12/7/2020 at 4:24 AM, R. Hartono said: The Great Tribulation will be a total destruction and global annihilation of this present unGodly civilization of mankind that man will faint only to expect what destruction will come the next day and this is why the foolish virgins scream "Lord Lord take us in", as they see the coming incomparable global destruction of calamities, war, famine, plague and murder everywhere, no peace at all and people killing each other, Luke 21:26 Men fainting for fear, and for expectation of the things which are coming on the world: for the powers of the heavens will be shaken. It's looking like you are lumping GT and the DOTL together and calling them the 70th week. That's not accurate. On 12/7/2020 at 4:24 AM, R. Hartono said: There will be saints in the Great Tribulation and these are the foolish virgins left behind who has purchased some oil (renew their faith by witnessing the mighty rapture of the wise virgins) and the left behind people who believe the 2 Witnesses, the 144000 servants of God and the angel proclaiming Gospel. These people shall be called saints shud they dare to resist the beast antichrist and its mark. So there will be saints of God in the GT? I have always wondered why that would be. If the Pretrib position is that no saints endure this, which is the wrath of God according to Pretrib, then why do any saints endure this? How and why does Pretrib cast millions of our brothers and sisters into that which they say we do not endure? On 12/7/2020 at 4:24 AM, R. Hartono said: Would God let the church as the bride of Christ being beaten black and blue first and beheaded, then resurrect her for marriage, that sounds like Frankenstein's bride, doesnt it ? Concerning Jesus.... Isaiah 52 and 53 documents how Jesus was treated, for us. He took the blows for you and I in Matt 26 and 27. But Pretrib is just the opposite, someone else takes the punishment instead of them. Pretrib says, "We will suffer no harm, but our other brothers and sisters will for only we are worthy, they aren't." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. Hartono Posted December 12, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 774 Topics Per Day: 0.34 Content Count: 6,949 Content Per Day: 3.06 Reputation: 1,984 Days Won: 1 Joined: 02/15/2018 Status: Offline Author Share Posted December 12, 2020 On 12/11/2020 at 1:48 AM, Keras said: Those people who have been proved worthy by their faith, they had sufficient oil; will not experience the Great Tribulation. Revelation 12:14 says they will be taken to a place of safety, [on earth] for the 1260 days until Jesus Returns. Those who failed the faith test, must remain. Revelation 12:17 Imho Rev 12 speaks about Israel only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. Hartono Posted December 12, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 774 Topics Per Day: 0.34 Content Count: 6,949 Content Per Day: 3.06 Reputation: 1,984 Days Won: 1 Joined: 02/15/2018 Status: Offline Author Share Posted December 12, 2020 (edited) On 12/11/2020 at 6:44 PM, Diaste said: So there will be saints of God in the GT? I have always wondered why that would be. If the Pretrib position is that no saints endure this, Post Tribbers always say that christians must go to the tribulation to be tested with fire, really ? Since two thousand years ago Peter said christians are tried like gold with fire (no need to wait until the great tribulation). 1 Peter 1:7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ. I wonder how can they never know what is the test ? Unless they never even live Godly : 2 Timothy 3:12 In fact, everyone who wants to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted, 13 while evil men and imposters go from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived. Early church was fed to lions by the Romans, saints defend their faith as martyrs died everyday around the world in radical nations, four christians were killed by radical muslims in Sulawesi island, Indonesia last month, did they wait for the purgatory in the great tribulation ? Very FUNNY. The great tribulation was never meant to test the church, its meant to annihilate unGodly civilization be4 Jesus Millennium begins. Like God did to annihilate wicked mankind by the Noah flood. Edited December 13, 2020 by R. Hartono Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uriah Posted December 12, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,364 Content Per Day: 0.58 Reputation: 277 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/03/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted December 12, 2020 11 hours ago, R. Hartono said: Post Tribbers always say that christians must go to the tribulation to be tested with fire, Very FUNNY. Hi Hortono, I have never met a Christian who claims that we "must go through the tribulation to be tested with fire." I HAVE heard people say there is a time of testing that all mankind will go through. We are not exempted as can be seen in the rest of your post. Also, how in the world do you get "purgatory" out of this?...sounds like a straw man attack. These things you speak of are not "funny" at all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keras Posted December 12, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 57 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,688 Content Per Day: 0.63 Reputation: 301 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/31/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/07/1941 Share Posted December 12, 2020 11 hours ago, R. Hartono said: Imho Rev 12 speaks about Israel only. Your opinion is wrong. The first 5 verses of Rev 12 do refer to ancient Israel, but the rest of that chapter is clearly about God's Christian people. Proved by verse 17....those who keep God's Commandments and witness to Jesus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. Hartono Posted December 13, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 774 Topics Per Day: 0.34 Content Count: 6,949 Content Per Day: 3.06 Reputation: 1,984 Days Won: 1 Joined: 02/15/2018 Status: Offline Author Share Posted December 13, 2020 (edited) On 12/13/2020 at 6:44 AM, Uriah said: I HAVE heard people say there is a time of testing that all mankind will go through. We are not exempted as can be seen in the rest of your post. God will serve the world with wormwood coffee, this is the test for the world in great tribulation, not for the church. Rev 3:10 clearly says God will save us from the time of trial to test the inhabitants of the world. Chriatians were persecuted since early church with the first martyr was Stephen killed by the Jews in a synagogue, christians were fed to lions by the Roman in front of spectators, the church in Smyrna was tested as martyrs, christians martyrs died from time to time until now in radical nations, recently four christians in Sulawesi island, Indonesia were murdered by radical muslims, they dont wait until the great tribulation to be tested, what a nonsense, God will resurrect these martyrs be4 the great tribulation n rapture them with the living saints, thats the Harvest and the world left behind will be annihilated by the 7 seals, 7 trumpets n 7 vials of God wrath. The saints are taken as the Great Multitude of Rev 7, There is no purgatory for them in great tribulation, all hv been tested n proven worthy until the rapture of wise virgins who keep the oil burning. Christians dont hv to wait for the great tribulation to be tested, they can also become martyrs anytime now, be4 the great tribulation totally destroy this present unGodly world. As the GT is not meant as purgatory to test christians but its meant to annihilate unGodly mankind be4 the Millennium of Christ begins. Edited December 16, 2020 by R. Hartono Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diaste Posted December 13, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 14 Topic Count: 67 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 6,635 Content Per Day: 1.99 Reputation: 2,371 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/17/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted December 13, 2020 22 hours ago, R. Hartono said: The great tribulation was never meant to test the church, its meant to annihilate unGodly civilization be4 Jesus Millennium begins. Like God did to annihilate wicked mankind by the Noah flood. This is incorrect. The flood was and is the wrath of God, GT is not God's wrath. The wrath of God comes after GT. Notice the 5th seal martyrs...then the wrath of God is coming at the 6th seal. To equate the whole of the week with God's wrath is to say God is killing His own martyrs. Impossible. Also, GT tests the whole world, not a particular group. God never said it was ONLY for....whomever. And there are a great many believers that come from out of GT. So I guess a vast group standing around the throne did go through GT. The idea that 'posttribbers say' we must go through GT is made up by pretrib to discredit the other position. I don't hear anyone say that. Some just know it's coming and are ready for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. Hartono Posted December 13, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 774 Topics Per Day: 0.34 Content Count: 6,949 Content Per Day: 3.06 Reputation: 1,984 Days Won: 1 Joined: 02/15/2018 Status: Offline Author Share Posted December 13, 2020 (edited) 12 hours ago, Diaste said: Notice the 5th seal martyrs...then the wrath of God is coming at the 6th seal. To equate the whole of the week with God's wrath is to say God is killing His own martyrs. Impossible The 5th seal martyrs are the foolish virgins left behind n those who believe the 2 Witnesses, these are not the bride of Christ as their souls were under the altar until their number is accomplished in the tribulation while the wedding takes place in Rev 19 be4 Armageddon war. Edited December 13, 2020 by R. Hartono Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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