JohnR7 Posted December 12, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 49 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,907 Content Per Day: 1.29 Reputation: 614 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/03/2018 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/06/1952 Share Posted December 12, 2020 17 hours ago, enoob57 said: shall he find faith on the earth? Anything not of faith is sin. Romans 14:23 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marilyn C Posted December 12, 2020 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 30 Topic Count: 267 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 13,226 Content Per Day: 3.49 Reputation: 8,515 Days Won: 12 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/06/1947 Share Posted December 12, 2020 17 hours ago, enoob57 said: Luke 18:8 8 I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth? KJV Hi enoob, We read here that the Lord is speaking to the people of Israel. It is not the Body of Christ. Remember that the Lord said He would build His church, (called out ones) and that He will bring them to maturity in Him, (Eph. 4: 13). Thus we can be assured that the Lord will complete that which He has begun in us and across the centuries and the across the world. He is a great Saviour and Head of the Body. Let us rejoice and believe in Him who is well able to keep that which I have committed to Him and He will present us faultless before the presence of His glory with exceeding joy. `(Jude 24) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alive Posted December 12, 2020 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 22 Topic Count: 194 Topics Per Day: 0.11 Content Count: 11,054 Content Per Day: 6.49 Reputation: 9,018 Days Won: 36 Joined: 09/12/2019 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/09/1956 Share Posted December 12, 2020 2 hours ago, enoob57 said: what am I missing? I didn't mean to imply you were missing something, but I thought you might not realize the difference in the various original text translated as 'word'. Its informative for folks to look at every instance in the NT where you see 'word' in English and the context. I was only suggesting. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis1209 Posted December 12, 2020 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 18 Topic Count: 350 Topics Per Day: 0.13 Content Count: 7,508 Content Per Day: 2.70 Reputation: 5,408 Days Won: 1 Joined: 09/27/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted December 12, 2020 (edited) 20 hours ago, enoob57 said: Luke 18:8 8 I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth? KJV I'm assuming this question is asked in other than a pre-tribulation viewpoint [i.e.]. The who, what and when? The who [Jesus]. The what [faith]. The when [His return, 2nd coming; end of tribulation?]. If the Lord came right now, would He find faith? I do believe so. After the Rapture? I assume we're talking about a post tribulation viewpoint here? I see the purpose for the tribulation as: Daniel 9:24 (KJV) Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. In the latter half of the tribulation, 1/3 of Israel will call upon the Name of the Lord as a nation, the remnant will have faith and regret rejecting their Messiah. I see those Gentiles with "faith" as having been martyred? Just my thoughts... Edited December 13, 2020 by Dennis1209 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted December 13, 2020 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,355 Content Per Day: 7.99 Reputation: 21,545 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Online Birthday: 07/27/1957 Author Share Posted December 13, 2020 4 hours ago, Josheb said: Certainly I believe that scripture. I may or may not agree with your view of that single now proof-texted verse but I believe the verse as written within its inherent and stated contexts. So I ask you.... 1) To whom was that written? (church at Rome (christians) 2) About whom was that written? Jesus 3) In what stated context was that written? don't understand the question 4) Is there a single example of your view in scripture wherein God has not first acted to that effect? The whole of the tenth chapter ... and... 5) What is the point attempted asking me if I believe that verse? to see your response... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted December 13, 2020 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,355 Content Per Day: 7.99 Reputation: 21,545 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Online Birthday: 07/27/1957 Author Share Posted December 13, 2020 7 hours ago, Josheb said: The original question, the post prompting the current conversation cited Luke 18:8 asking, "Will the Son of Man find faith on the earth when he comes?" and given what else the scriptures tell us the question must be answered in the affirmative because 1) there is a pile of scripture telling us there will be faith, and 2) the implications of no-faith are inconsistent with the ontology of God and Christian Christology. Perhaps a Pelagian might answer that question in the negative because they believe faith is a product of human volition but everyone else understand and agrees one way or another that faith comes from God, not man. God would have to be unfaithful to himself for faith not to exist. The righteous God Who commands righteousness would have to actively withhold righteousness and not permit faith. God would necessarily have to...... author sin! "...whatever is not from faith is sin." (Rom. 14:23) "All unrighteousness is sin..." (1 Jn. 5:17) And since these things are impossible in human might we necessarily understand this is all God's doing. I'm not talking about determinism. I'm talking about God being God and consistent with Himself. The Bible is not about us. That's a human-centric view of the Bible. The Bible, from beginning to end, is about Jesus. Answering that question from a human-centric pov can and often does lead to problems. The five points of calvanism is error in my study of Scripture... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted December 13, 2020 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,355 Content Per Day: 7.99 Reputation: 21,545 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Online Birthday: 07/27/1957 Author Share Posted December 13, 2020 3 minutes ago, Josheb said: ????? What in all of heaven and earth are you talking about? I haven't mentioned Calvin, five points, or your study of scripture. I answered the questions I was asked and I've asked you some of my own queries. Should I expect parity or not? 1) To whom was that written? 2) About whom was that written? 3) In what stated context was that written? 4) Is there a single example of your view in scripture wherein God has not first acted to that effect? and... 5) What is the point attempted asking me if I believe that verse? Very easy questions to answer. No excuse for not answering them for a person asserting his study of scripture. Just open your Bible to Romans 10 and read the text in its entirety and answer the questions asked exactly as Romans 10 informs those answers. Then look to the rest of scripture for a precedent, and example of someone actually do what it says. No Calvinism needed or requested. already answered this.... guess you overlooked it... you need to keep the quotes straight less confusing that way... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted December 13, 2020 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,355 Content Per Day: 7.99 Reputation: 21,545 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Online Birthday: 07/27/1957 Author Share Posted December 13, 2020 6 hours ago, Josheb said: Got it. Yes, the text was written to believers. No, it was not written about Jesus; it was written about the the Israelites. The context is Paul's desire for Israel's salvation. This is stated in the first verse of the chapter. And the question about an example is unanswered. "To see your response," is not an answer to the question asked. What point is there in asking for my response?I So much for your study of scripture. The facts of the scripture are Israel heard and knew. Verses 18 and 19 report Israel heard and knew, yet they did not get saved. How can that be? Isaiah 6:9-10, Jeremiah 5:21, Matthew 13:14-15, Mark 4:11-12, Luke 8:10, John 12:39-40, Acts 28:26, Romans 9:18 & 11:8, and 1 Corinthians 2:14 explain how they could have heard and known but not heeded. Look it up. You know nearly all believers when asked about Romans they respond with it's the Romans road to lead people to The Lord Jesus... Rome was very far from Israel it would seem if Paul's intent of Romans was specifically to Jews He would have sent it to Jerusalem... Hmmm. Now granted He shared his heart to the church that was at Rome about his fellow Israelites but Paul was a missionary to the gentiles and that shouldn't be overlooked also... We know Paul went to synagogues to build off the OT Jewish believers to build the NT finish of Scripture. I think that was wise of Him to utilize his limited time on earth to maximize his effective ministry... Quote "To see your response," is not an answer to the question asked. What point is there in asking for my response? What's the point of dialogue... it is to find where the other is at! Quote so much for your study of scripture. I don't see this was necessary... do you? It had nothing to the topic at hand and places you in a bad light.... I appreciate your study of Scripture but your delivery of such study needs work ... just my opinion of course... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted December 13, 2020 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 0 Topic Count: 908 Topics Per Day: 0.19 Content Count: 9,653 Content Per Day: 2.02 Reputation: 5,837 Days Won: 9 Joined: 04/07/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted December 13, 2020 On 12/11/2020 at 10:01 PM, enoob57 said: Luke 18:8 8 I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth? KJV Ecumenical movements like the ultimate Bahai religion (all roads lead to God) (all Christian roads lead to God) ← any version of Jesus'll do... obscure the fact that God went to a great amount of trouble to show humanity the one way to God. One of the greatest warning by even Christ himself was DO NOT BE DECEIVED... for FALSE christs will come and... deceive [many]... Broad is the way to destruction and [many] there are on it... Narrow is the way to life and [few] there are that find it.... Either he was wrong... or the billion or so who think they are Christians and are saved are deceived... The traditions of man that rule the Church Industrial Complex the world over has nullified the very Word of God given to point the one true way to him. Mark 7:13 (NASB95) 13 thus invalidating the word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that.” Mark 7:7 (NASB95) 7 ‘But in vain do they worship Me, Teaching as doctrines the precepts of men.’ Seminaries... I've been there, seen it for myself. Humanism, atheism, even satanism is promoted in these hallowed institutions in which mankind places so very much trust. A child, filled with the Holy Spirit interpreting the Word of God (and tested by the Bible that it is the actual Holy Spirit doing the interpretation) is greater than 100% scholars / theologians / pastors brought up through the organizational ranks of the Church without the Holy Spirit as the ultimate authority of scriptural interpretation. A mere child. How prevalent is this? Ask your pastor, teacher, theologian, scholar, clergy, priest, all of them what is the first and foremost thing we are to know about scripture. Most will not get it right. The scriptures have only two verses that begin with "know this first" and only one of them referring to the scriptures themselves. If they get the passage right, they will not know the meaning of it or the implication of it. So, how prevalent is it? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted December 13, 2020 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 0 Topic Count: 908 Topics Per Day: 0.19 Content Count: 9,653 Content Per Day: 2.02 Reputation: 5,837 Days Won: 9 Joined: 04/07/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted December 13, 2020 Will he find faith indeed? We presume much... that there are billions of Christians in the world. If Christianity became outlawed (seriously outlawed) and those who refused to recant face the chopping block... the numbers will be more realistic. And even then... to pay the ultimate sacrifice only to find... Matthew 7:21–23 (NASB95) 21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. 22 “Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ 23 “And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.’ Only belief in the genuine Jesus Christ activates the prepaid salvation of Christ. I say this not to alarm but to warn. Seek the Holy Spirit's interpretation of the Bible (2 Peter 1:20-21) prove it is him (1 John 4:1 / 1 Thessalonians 5:21) by the scriptures themselves (Acts 17:11 / 2 Timothy 3:16-17 / Proverbs 25:2 / Deuteronomy 29:29 / Isaiah 28:9-13) "These things are written," the Apostle John stated, "so that you may KNOW you have eternal life." 1 John 5:13 (NASB95) 13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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