Let's get down to it, the Nitty Gritty

August 8, 2005

Once more brothers and sisters

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14335a.htm

Sunday

Sunday (Day of the Sun), as the name of the first day of the week, is derived from Egyptian astrology. The seven planets, known to us as Saturn, Jupiter, Mars, the Sun, Venus, Mercury, and the Moon, each had an hour of the day assigned to them, and the planet which was regent during the first hour of any day of the week gave its name to that day (see CALENDAR). During the first and second century the week of seven days was introduced into Rome from Egypt, and the Roman names of the planets were given to each successive day. The Teutonic nations seem to have adopted the week as a division of time from the Romans, but they changed the Roman names into those of corresponding Teutonic deities. Hence the dies Solis became Sunday (German, Sonntag). Sunday was the first day of the week according to the Jewish method of reckoning, but for Christians it began to take the place of the Jewish Sabbath in Apostolic times as the day set apart for the public and solemn worship of God. The practice of meeting together on the first day of the week for the celebration of the Eucharistic Sacrifice is indicated in Acts, xx 7; I Cor., xvi, 2; in Apoc., i, 10, it is called the Lord's day. In the Didache (xiv) the injunction is given: "On the Lord's Day come together and break bread. And give thanks (offer the Eucharist), after confessing your sins that your sacrifice may be pure". St. Ignatius (Ep. ad Magnes. ix) speaks of Christians as "no longer observing the Sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord's Day, on which also Our Life rose again". In the Epistle of Barnabas (xv) we read: "Wherefore, also, we keep the eight day (i. e. the first of the week) with joyfulness, the day also on which Jesus rose again from the dead".

St. Justin is the first Christian writer to call the day Sunday (I Apol., lxvii) in the celebrated passage in which he describes the worship offered by the early Christians on that day to God. The fact that they ment together and offered public worship on Sunday necessitated a certain rest from work on that day. However, Tertullian (202) is the first writer who expressly mentions the Sunday rest: "We, however (just as tradition has taught us), on the day of the Lord's Resurrection ought to guard not only against kneeling, but every posture and office of solicitude, deferring even our businesses lest we give any place to the devil" ("De orat.", xxiii; cf. "Ad nation.", I, xiii; "Apolog.", xvi).

These and similar indications show that during the first three centuries practice and tradition had consecrated the Sunday to the public worship of God by the hearing of the Mass and the resting from work. With the opening of the fourth century positive legislation, both ecclesiastical and civil, began to make these duties more definite. The Council of Elvira (300) decreed: "If anyone in the city neglects to come to church for three Sundays, let him be excommunicated for a short time so that he may be corrected" (xxi). In the Apostolic Constitutions, which belong to the end of the fourth century, both the hearing of the Mass and the rest from work are prescribed, and the precept is attributed to the Apostles. The express teaching of Christ and St. Paul prevented the early Christians from falling into the excesses of Jewish Sabbatarianism in the observance of the Sunday, and yet we find St. C

ayin jade · August 8, 2005

Rom 14:1 And receive him who is weak in the faith, but not to judgments of your thoughts.

Rom 14:5 One indeed esteems a day above another day; and another esteems every day alike. Let each one be fully assured in his own mind.

Rom 14:6 He who regards the day regards it to the Lord; and he not regarding the day, does not regard it to the Lord. He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, does not eat to the Lord, and gives God thanks.

Col 2:16 Therefore let no one judge you in food or in drink, or in respect of a feast, or of the new moon, or of the sabbaths.

Y'all seem to be forgetting this important thing. Let no one judge you for it. So would y'all please quit condemning people because they do not believe as you do.

August 8, 2005

That you don't want to keep the true Sabbath?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This would be because the days of the week have been lost in time. What anyone calls Saturday or Sunday may or may not be in their proper place anyway. So to remedy this I observe the Sabbath 24-7 remembering that when we enter Gods rest the will of man will end and never be done again. Plus the fact that I have been relieved of the care of observing days and months and years sense it has all been lost in time and would only be revived to cast a stumbling block before those who love the Lord and seek His righteousness.

Galatians 4

8 But then, indeed, when you did not know God, you served those which by nature are not gods.

9 But now after you have known God, or rather are known by God, how is it that you turn again to the weak and beggarly elements, to which you desire again to be in bondage?

10 You observe days and months and seasons and years.

11 I am afraid for you, lest I have labored for you in vain.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Do you really call G-d's moedim weak and beggarly elements? Do you really think that Paul was speaking of this? Honestly, I really want to know.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not at all it is the obsevance of a day that you were talking about. Correct? Not what goes on, on that day. Correct? It is a certain day of the week that you would have every one be in bondage to. Correct? This is why I wrote this. So to remedy this I observe the Sabbath 24-7 remembering that when we enter Gods rest the will of man will end and never be done again.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Be in bondage to? How so, I don't find being a witness to my G-ds creation a bondage, it is a delight, and I look forward to it every week, it is such a special time, I wish everyone could know, and he reigns down special blessings on that day , opens up his word more, there is so much, I could go on and on.

Let me ask you, do you observe your birthday every day? Or an anniversary of any kind every day? Probably not, because that would make it mundane, common, average, normal, but Shabbat is not common it is Holy and the L-Rd made it that way when the first seventh day happened, he concecrated it, do you have that power to concecrate a day to commorate his creation?

BTW, Paul was talking to Ex-heathens, Pagans, who had their own panthion of god- and special days and pagan god days, that is what they were reverting to, he was not talking to Jews and chastising them for celebrating G-ds appointed times, how could he, he kept them himself.

August 8, 2005

Rom 14:1 And receive him who is weak in the faith, but not to judgments of your thoughts.
Rom 14:5 One indeed esteems a day above another day; and another esteems every day alike. Let each one be fully assured in his own mind.
Rom 14:6 He who regards the day regards it to the Lord; and he not regarding the day, does not regard it to the Lord. He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, does not eat to the Lord, and gives God thanks.

Col 2:16 Therefore let no one judge you in food or in drink, or in respect of a feast, or of the new moon, or of the sabbaths.

Y'all seem to be forgetting this important thing. Let no one judge you for it. So would y'all please quit condemning people because they do not believe as you do.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No one is condemning Ayin Jade, is this your reason for not keeping the holy Sabbath because you think Paul was telling the Romans and Colossians that they shouldn't?

August 8, 2005

Blessed by Association, you are not abiding by the OP, I asked why you persoanlly don't, quoting huge passeages is not an answer.

Catsmeow · August 8, 2005

Rom 14:1

Catsmeow · August 8, 2005

Blessed by Association, you are not abiding by the OP, I asked

August 8, 2005

The reason why I put the website and the cut and paste is to so why I dont worship on Sunday.

WHY you ask? Because man santified that day and not God.

In the Didache (xiv) the injunction is given: "On the Lord's Day come together and break bread. And give thanks (offer the Eucharist), after confessing your sins that your sacrifice may be pure". St. Ignatius (Ep. ad Magnes. ix) speaks of Christians as "no longer observing the Sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord's Day, on which also Our Life rose again". In the Epistle of Barnabas (xv) we read: "Wherefore, also, we keep the eight day (i. e. the first of the week) with joyfulness, the day also on which Jesus rose again from the dead"

Agreed! No one will read burdensome "cut and pastes" in a conversational format on a message board.

A specific verse or verses should effectively make one's point.

i dont need a specific verse because i am a worshiper of God and follow His commandments not man, not even Paul. i worship God not Paul and His writings because if i worship Paul and because he said let no man judge you on SABBATHS then I put Paul and his writings ABOVE GOD's COMMANDMENTS

Of course no one will read burdensome cut and pastes, WHy? because you believe that you have all truth and have closed your minds to the work of the Holy Spirit that wants to lead you all truth according to John 16:13

If Jesus accorfing to John 14:6 is they way truth and the life and Jesus worshipped on Sabbath then I will follow the Master and do as He did and that is why I am a Sabbath worshipper

Acts 20:7: "On the first day of the week we came together to break bread. Paul spoke to the people and, because he intended to leave the next day, kept on talking until midnight."

Yes there are instances in the Bible where people gathered on Sunday the first day but the bible never said that they KEPT IT HOLY. we can gather on any day and worship but with GOD it is what day you keep Holy.

If jesus is the way, truth and life do you think that He would lead us down the wrong path?

of course not so why would he change the day to be kept Holy?

He did not! If you want to worship on Sunday it is not a problem it is your choice, but you are still to keep the Sabbath day holy, the 7th day.

Daniel 7: 25- and he... shall think to change times and law...

THe only Law that refers to time is the 4th commandment to Remember that Sabbath day to keep it Holy.

It is amazing that all the other commandents were thou shall not's and this one says Remember because it is a choice to worship on this day.

Y'all seem to be forgetting this important thing. Let no one judge you for it. So would y'all please quit condemning people because they do not believe as you do.

no one is condeming youit is your choice to keep God's day holy Or another day.

But Paul said....................

PAUL IS NOT GOD AND CANNOT CHANGE THE DAY TO BE KEPT HOLY

Malachi 3:6 FOR I AM THE LORD, I CHANGE NOT;

Obviously no one read my first post to change the subject but...

If God does not change and 2 Tim 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration by god then are you saying that GOD MADE A MISTAKE?

PLEASE ANSWER THIS QUESTION

He does not make mistakes and if God would make one day Holy and then change it later on the you SAY THAT GOD IS FALLIBLE and made a mistake by making Sabbath holy and changing it.

ARE YOU SAYING THAT GOD MAKES MISTAKES AND THEN CORRECTS because if you say so then you admit that god who wrote the commandments with His own finger in stone to show how long it must remain with us and then wrote them on our hearts to later on change what He wrote on our hearts by letting His servant paul correct GOD'S mistake the you a Blaspheming.

God does not make mistakes man does.

I wnat someone to admit that GOd made a mistake by making the Sabbath holy when it should have been Sunday. I DARE YOU

Rom 14:1 And receive him who is weak in the faith, but not to judgments of your thoughts.
Rom 14:5 One indeed esteems a day above another day; and another esteems every day alike. Let each one be fully assured in his own mind.

Rom 14:6 He who regards the day regards it to the Lord; and he not regarding the day, does not regard it to the Lord. He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, does not eat to the Lord, and gives God thanks.

Col 2:16 Therefore let no one judge you in food or in drink, or in respect of a feast, or of the new moon, or of the sabbaths.

I already answered this question

But everyone says that, " The bible says let no man judge you on Sabbaths."
Question How many Sabbaths were given? ANS 1

So why is it plural?

The Jews had many feasts. Tabernacles, booths, pentecost, Day of atonement, etc, etc. Right

All of them did not end on the Seventh day of the week or the sabbath. So therefore the conclusion is that there are different Sabbaths in accordance to the feasts of the Jews and this is what Paul wrote about Those are different Sabbaths because Sunday is not the Sabbath or one of the Sabbaths as writtten by Paul.

If this is not so SHOW ME different

Leviticus 23 shows that there were different rligous festivals that all start o different days and end on different days.

FOR EXAMPLE

Lev 23:5 In the fourteenth day of the first month at even is the Lord's Passover.

6- And on the 15th day of the same month is the feast of unleaven bread unto the Lord: seven days ye must eat unleavened bread

7- in the first day ye shall have an holy convocation(or Worship service or Sabbath)

8- but ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto the Lord seven days: in the seventh day is an Holy convocation (or Worship service or Sabbath) ye shall do no servile work therin.

But dont stop there read the whole chapter to see that their feast were regaurded as Sabbaths. (IS THERE A JEW THAT WOULD ATTEST TO THIS)

SEE DIFFERENT SABBATHS AS PAUL STATED.

This is what Paul was referring to because thay were keeping the different feasts and people condemned them for it so Paul said " Let no man judge you on Sabbaths.

So this is why we have this verse in the Bible

Rom 14:1 And receive him who is weak in the faith, but not to judgments of your thoughts.
Rom 14:5 One indeed esteems a day above another day; and another esteems every day alike. Let each one be fully assured in his own mind.

Rom 14:6 He who regards the day regards it to the Lord; and he not regarding the day, does not regard it to the Lord. He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, does not eat to the Lord, and gives God thanks.

Col 2:16 Therefore let no one judge you in food or in drink, or in respect of a feast, or of the new moon, or of the sabbaths.

Can someone prove otherwise.

BUT back to the OP, I worship on Sabbath becasue God said so, He wrote it with His own FINGER. GOD does not change and therefore neither do HIS LAWS. Paul is not GOD and therefore cannot change God's Law. All scripture is given by God and there is another explanation for Rom 14:1-6 and that answer is the one that i just gave.

Man makes mistakes and Think to change times and laws as i posted from the Catholic Encyclopedia

In the Didache (xiv) the injunction is given: "On the Lord's Day come together and break bread. And give thanks (offer the Eucharist), after confessing your sins that your sacrifice may be pure". St. Ignatius (Ep. ad Magnes. ix) speaks of Christians as "no longer observing the Sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord's Day, on which also Our Life rose again". In the Epistle of Barnabas (xv) we read: "Wherefore, also, we keep the eight day (i. e. the first of the week) with joyfulness, the day also on which Jesus rose again from the dead".

3

And this is why i don't worship on Sunday The Lord's day because man said that it was the Lord's day NOT GOD. His day is the Sabbath as given by the 10 commandments

Edited August 8, 2005 by Blessed by Association

Catsmeow · August 8, 2005

i dont need a specific verse because i am a worshiper of God and follow His commandments not man, not even Paul. i worship God not Paul and His writings because if i worship Paul and because he said let no man judge you on SABBATHS then I put Paul and his writings ABOVE GOD's COMMANDMENTS

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This is tantamount to heresy. "Paul's writings" are not his own but are the inspired Word of God.

2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

There's no 'pickin' and choosin', my friend. You either accept ALL scripture or none at all.

Paul wrote as he was moved by the Holy Spirit. Your declaration is intimating that the Pauline epistles are not the inspired Word of the Living God.

I strongly question your understanding if you reject any or part of Holy Writ.

August 8, 2005

WOW you misunderstood what i said

READ THE WHOLE THING

QUOTE(Blessed by Association @ Aug 8 2005, 02:32 PM)
i dont need a specific verse because i am a worshiper of God and follow His commandments not man, not even Paul. i worship God not Paul and His writings because if i worship Paul and because he said let no man judge you on SABBATHS then I put Paul and his writings ABOVE GOD's COMMANDMENTS

This is tantamount to heresy. "Paul's writings" are not his own but are the inspired Word of God.

2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

There's no 'pickin' and choosin', my friend. You either accept ALL scripture or none at all.

Paul wrote as he was moved by the Holy Spirit. Your declaration is intimating that the Pauline epistles are not the inspired Word of the Living God.

I strongly question your understanding if you reject any or part of Holy Writ.

I am not picking and choosing what part of scripture i follow i follow all of it.

READ IT AGAIN

PAUL IS NOT GOD AND CANNOT CHANGE THE DAY TO BE KEPT HOLY

Malachi 3:6 FOR I AM THE LORD, I CHANGE NOT;
Obviously no one read my first post to change the subject but...
If God does not change and 2 Tim 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration by god then are you saying that GOD MADE A MISTAKE?
PLEASE ANSWER THIS QUESTION

He does not make mistakes and if God would make one day Holy and then change it later on the you SAY THAT GOD IS FALLIBLE and made a mistake by making Sabbath holy and changing it.
ARE YOU SAYING THAT GOD MAKES MISTAKES AND THEN CORRECTS because if you say so then you admit that god who wrote the commandments with His own finger in stone to show how long it must remain with us and then wrote them on our hearts to later on change what He wrote on our hearts by letting His servant paul correct GOD'S mistake the you a Blaspheming.

God does not make mistakes man does.
I wnat someone to admit that GOd made a mistake by making the Sabbath holy when it should have been Sunday

TRY THIS ONE BECAUSE I THINK YOU FORGOT TO READ THIS ONE B/C I KNOW WHAT PAUL SAYS AND BELIEVE IT>

I already answered this question

QUOTE
But everyone says that, " The bible says let no man judge you on Sabbaths."
Question How many Sabbaths were given? ANS 1
So why is it plural?
The Jews had many feasts. Tabernacles, booths, pentecost, Day of atonement, etc, etc. Right
All of them did not end on the Seventh day of the week or the sabbath. So therefore the conclusion is that there are different Sabbaths in accordance to the feasts of the Jews and this is what Paul wrote about Those are different Sabbaths because Sunday is not the Sabbath or one of the Sabbaths as writtten by Paul.

If this is not so SHOW ME different
Leviticus 23 shows that there were different rligous festivals that all start o different days and end on different days.
FOR EXAMPLE
Lev 23:5 In the fourteenth day of the first month at even is the Lord's Passover.
6- And on the 15th day of the same month is the feast of unleaven bread unto the Lord: seven days ye must eat unleavened bread
7- in the first day ye shall have an holy convocation(or Worship service or Sabbath)
8- but ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto the Lord seven days: in the seventh day is an Holy convocation (or Worship service or Sabbath) ye shall do no servile work therin.

But dont stop there read the whole chapter to see that their feast were regaurded as Sabbaths. (IS THERE A JEW THAT WOULD ATTEST TO THIS)
SEE DIFFERENT SABBATHS AS PAUL STATED.
This is what Paul was referring to because thay were keeping the different feasts and people condemned them for it so Paul said " Let no man judge you on Sabbaths.

So this is why we have this verse in the Bible
QUOTE
Rom 14:1 And receive him who is weak in the faith, but not to judgments of your thoughts.
Rom 14:5 One indeed esteems a day above another day; and another esteems every day alike. Let each one be fully assured in his own mind.
Rom 14:6 He who regards the day regards it to the Lord; and he not regarding the day, does not regard it to the Lord. He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, does not eat to the Lord, and gives God thanks.

Col 2:16 Therefore let no one judge you in food or in drink, or in respect of a feast, or of the new moon, or of the sabbaths.

Can someone prove otherwise.