why do Islamists hate the west?

August 21, 2005

Quote Shilo357 Aug 18 2005, 09:59 PM
There was no "Palestinian people" before 1964.
As I am aware! There was never a country called Palestine. It was never allowed to exist as such. So here we have no argument.
However that the land has been an area of ethnically ARAB majority from 638 thru 1516 is indisputable. And from 1516 to 1917 the area was controlled by Ottoman Turks, and recognized as a Arab region is also indisputable. The Arab population remained.

Yes, and herein lies your problem. You obviously have some reading comprehension issues. There may have been some areas of Palestine where the Arabs were more numerous. There may have been some cities whose demographics contained larger numbers of Arabs. One cannot allow that to be confused with who the majority of inhabitants were. During the 402 years of Ottoman rule there was no ethnicity (Jews included) that could clearly hold the position of "majority." The multiplicity of ethnicities was simply too great.

The problem lies in the fact that the whole "Arab majority" argument really doesn't matter. The Arabs claim that the entire state of Israel is an illegal occupation of Arab Land. The issue of "occupation" does not really apply to the West Bank and Gaza. The enemies of Israel have made it clear that they intend to "liberate" all of Palestine from the Zionist entity. They wish to see Israel dismantled. This is not merely the stated Goal of Hamas, or terrorist entities, but even the more Gen Secretary of the UN Butros Butros Gali, an Egyptian made the remark that the Jews should relinquish their nationalistic goals and simply allow themselves to be absorbed into the Arab communities of the Middle East.

Even though the PLO charter was supposed to eliminate all calls for Israel's destruction, it was never removed, even after the 1996 so-called "vote" to remove those remarks. Even today, the P.A. (which is just the PLO wearing a suit and tie) has failed to remove the calls for Israel's destruction from its charter.

Quote Shilo357 Aug 18 2005, 09:59 PM
There was no "Palestinian people" before 1964.

As I am aware! There was never a country called Palestine. It was never allowed to exist as such. So here we have no argument.
However that the land has been an area of ethnically ARAB majority from 638 thru 1516 is indisputable. And from 1516 to 1917 the area was controlled by Ottoman Turks, and recognized as a Arab region is also indisputable. The Arab population remained.

Not all of the Muslim rule of Palestine during 1,174 years of Muslim dominance were not Arabs. The Seljuks who ruled from 1071-1099 were Turkish mercenaries. The Muslim commander Saladin, (who defeated the crusaders) ruled from 1187-1260 was a Kurd. The Mamlukes who ruled from 1260-1516 were descended from Turkish and Caucasian slave traders. Suleiman the Magnificent who captured Jerusalem and launched the Ottoman rule from 1516 to 1917 was a Turk.

As for Arab rule in Palestine... the history of the early Caliphate was short. A genuine Arab empire lasted not even one century altogether. It was called the Ummayyad Damascus Dynasty.

To say: Quote Shiloh357 Aug 18 2005, 09:59 PM
The Arabs living in the region prior to 1964 were simply Arabs

And

They were not a political entity, they were not a "people."
"Simply Arabs'

August 22, 2005

Quote Shilo357 Aug 18 2005, 09:59 PM
The false claim in the Arab media has even been made that there was no Temple on the Temple Mount. .

And other such points you try to make.

I am not interested in Arab falsehoods, other than to reveal them as such.
As I am not interested in secular Zionist falsehoods, other than to reveal them as such.
Do not attempt too CLOUD the issue by bringing in some of the ridiculous counter claims of Moslem extremists. I am not interested.

Ah, but you should be interested. It is not merely the extremists that are making that claim. It is believed all throughout the Arab world by modern Arabs that there was a nation of Palestine, and that these "Palestinians" were the sole inhabitants from time immemorial. They claim that the Jews usurped this "nation" in an invasion from Europe and stole Arab Land.

Eadora, you are wanting me and others to "understand" their grievances. But their grievances are based upon these falsehoods. Their "grievances" against Israel are based upon a history that doesn't exist. Their grievances are not valid since they are based upon an usurped nation and national peoplehood that has no recorded history. You are the one who needs to "listen" to, and "understand" their grievances.

Their grievances are also based upon denying the truth that the Jews ever lived in the region at all. The Muslim Waqf, the Muslim organization in charge of the Temple Mount, is busy trying to destroy every shred of evidence they can find on the Temple Mount that would testify to a Jewish presence there in order to bolster the lie that there never was a Temple. That is not the work of extremists, but of mainline Muslims.

I will not waste time listening to phony grievances based solely upon a patchwork of lies. The truth is that they have no legitimate grievances that justify the murder of innocent Jews. This is not the work of a few extremists but is the choice within the Palestinian Authority. Terrorism is their means of achieving their political objectives. It has nothing to do with "grievances" but with an irrational hatred and an insatiable, barbaric desire to see Jews annihilated. They are justifying terrorism on the grounds that they were disenfranchised by Jews, when genuine history tells us otherwise.

followerofjesus · August 22, 2005

Greetings!

Back on page 7 of this thread, in one of my rather long posts in exchange with Fenwar, I stated this:

Do a Google on the recently relieved FORSCOM Commander, and you can see an example of what I mean. He was recently relieved for....well....bad things.

That statement was wrong. What I meant to say was that the TRADOC (Training and Doctrine Command) Commander was recently relieved for seemingly unseemly behavior involving someone other than his wife. For some reason, I messed it up and put in FORSCOM (Forces Command) instead of TRADOC.

Two different commands, and two different people.

As far as I know, the FORSCOM Commander has done nothing wrong and is not involved in anyway with this case, nor has he been implicated in any wrong doing.

My simple mistake is all it was.

I have gone back and fixed it in the original post.

Thanks,

t.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

These guys are held to a higher standard than your average joe. UCMJ is much stricter than civilian law. I wonder why that is?

amor · August 22, 2005

You have nothing. Your entire defense can be summed up in "n...n...no it's not!"

No evidence, no logic, nothing. There was no Arab majority in "Palestine", ever. Turkish, Bedouin, Persian, Jewish, Anglos, Franks, Italians, and Arabs all inhabited the land a majority of the time. There was never an "arab" majority unless you consider Turks, Bedouins, Persians, and Jews arabs.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Wel I'd count Bedouins as Arabs, as would the Bedouin I know. As to the others yes lots of grops lived there, but the majority (most people) were Arabs very few anglos (during the mandate) for example and the Franks were a smal miniority 00 years ago and nob-existant now

ted · August 22, 2005

These guys are held to a higher standard than your average joe. UCMJ is much stricter than civilian law. I wonder why that is?

Several reasons.

1. The mandate that we are to be professional in all we do. We are expected to remain at a standard that will not embarrass, nor discredit the uniform that we wear, nor the Nation for which we represent.

2. The military is unique, and separate, for good reason, from the general public. We, at all times, represent the United States in times of war and peace, and are expected to live up to the honor and reputation set forth by those before us.

3. The obedience to lawful orders must never be questioned to a degree that would compromise any mission, no matter the gravity. The UCMJ has strict sanctions and penalties for infractions which are detrimental to the good order of the military, and the Nation which we defend.

4. The UCMJ is set up in such a way that makes a guy really think twice about being an idiot!

t.

apothanein kerdos · August 22, 2005

You have nothing. Your entire defense can be summed up in "n...n...no it's not!"

No evidence, no logic, nothing. There was no Arab majority in "Palestine", ever. Turkish, Bedouin, Persian, Jewish, Anglos, Franks, Italians, and Arabs all inhabited the land a majority of the time. There was never an "arab" majority unless you consider Turks, Bedouins, Persians, and Jews arabs.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Wel I'd count Bedouins as Arabs, as would the Bedouin I know. As to the others yes lots of grops lived there, but the majority (most people) were Arabs very few anglos (during the mandate) for example and the Franks were a smal miniority 00 years ago and nob-existant now

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Nope, wrong again.

Bedouins can be Kurds, Persians, or any other group from that region. Likewise, I forgot to add that Kurds at one time lived in that area.

Eadora · August 22, 2005

Double Post??

How does this happen??

Eadora · August 23, 2005

Yoh Shiloh357

Quote shiloh357 Aug 20 2005, 11:28 PM

Yes, and herein lies your problem. You obviously have some reading comprehension issues.

And so you resort to insult again. I find argument that is strong on insult, and thin on facts lightly amusing. I know you can do better than this Shiloh. I have had to contend with you in much better form in the past.

Cut the nonsense good shiloh!

Quote shiloh357 Aug 20 2005, 11:28 PM

During the 402 years of Ottoman rule there was no ethnicity (Jews included) that could clearly hold the position of "majority."

Please perceive the FACTS!

I again cite:

Note From:

Eadora · August 23, 2005

Oh and for the record.

I never quoted Morris of Finkelstein.

I simply said that it was not nice to call Morris names.\

I now include Finkelstein. Not nice to call them names!

Well I'm out of here for a while -

Work to DO!

August 23, 2005

Yoh Shiloh357

Quote shiloh357 Aug 20 2005, 11:28 PM
Yes, and herein lies your problem. You obviously have some reading comprehension issues.

And so you resort to insult again. I find argument that is strong on insult, and thin on facts lightly amusing. I know you can do better than this Shiloh. I have had to contend with you in much better form in the past.

You obviously do have comprehension problems. You keep trying to prove to me that Arabs lived in Palestine even though I made it clear that I had never said there was no Arab population. You were raising objections to remarks I had never made. I said that there were NO Arabs living on the Land that the Jewish immigrants legally purchased from absentee Arab landowners who lived in Lebanon and elsewhere. I NEVER claimed that there were no Arabs living in Palestine.

Quote shiloh357 Aug 20 2005, 11:28 PM
During the 402 years of Ottoman rule there was no ethnicity (Jews included) that could clearly hold the position of "majority."

Please perceive the FACTS!

I again cite:

Note From: