Is it okay for born again Christians to participate in matched betting?

[Who me]

3 hours ago, Raymond2020 said:

Thanks for your input.

Now what about stock market and forex traders that use their knowledge to read the markets. That's easy money, is it not? Surely that's a form of gambling,  is it not? 

Participating in a church raffle,  that's a form of gambling, is it not?

Do you blow money on cinema tickets or eating out at a restaurant? Well that's wasting,  is it not? You could've watched tv at home or cooked a meal at home and taken that money to feed the poor. 

Well if you see that as entertainment it's another story. Just like some people see placing a sports bet as entertainment. As long as they dont get entangled in betting or whatever.

As I said I don't want to be difficult.  I'm still a baby Christian learning but where do we draw the line?

 

Investing in business is a gamble, but it is also a form of work and one that Jesus endorsed. In the parable of the talents, the servant who hid his talent was rebuked for not depositing it with the bankers so he would get interest on it.

 

Getting on cards, horses, or other sports is at attempt to profit from watching a sport, it is not earning or profiting from work.

Church raffles we don't do them and I don't buy them.

I will gladly attend a charity function, pay an entrance fee, buy drinks, cakes etc to support them.

 

If one is already giving to charity and using things like tax rebates that increases the value of one's giving, there is nothing wrong with spending on meals out, the cinema, theatre concerts etc proviso on what one is watching etc.

[Marathoner]

1 hour ago, Raymond2020 said:

Match betting is not gambling. Another term for match betting is arbitrage trading. 

What is arbitrage trading? 

It is a trade that profits by utilizing price differences of similar financial instruments in different markets. 

What is gambling?

Taking a risky action in the hope of a desired result. 

The word gambling conjures a bad name, and this is not what it is. If you own shares in a business that's more gambling then this. Cause there's risk involved. 

Let me ask you this. Have you tried matched betting in your life before to conclude these things?

Have you done research and read up on this topic or you made your conclusions when you heard betting companies is involved?

Matched betting has been featured in the biggest newspapers, tried and tested by daily mail, the guardian, the Sun,Vice and the telegraph.

They say two heads is better then one. Now dont you think a thousand heads combined can make a better judgment then you and me. Maybe we shouldn't be too quick to judge this one.

 

 

 

Did I not state, "you be the judge?" As for myself I have little concern for money. The Lord has given me work and He provides what I need. The words of the Proverb come to mind:

Two things I have asked of You;
Do not refuse me before I die:
Keep deception and lies far from me,
Give me neither poverty nor riches;
Feed me with the food that is my portion,
So that I will not be full and deny You and say, “Who is the Lord?”
And that I will not become impoverished and steal,
And profane the name of my God.
(Proverbs 30:7-9 NASB)

If this weren't a matter which troubled you, then you wouldn't be here asking for the counsel of your brethren in the Lord. You have received what you sought, @Raymond2020. What you do with this counsel is your matter, my friend.  

[Marathoner]

A bookmaker is a fancy term for "bookie." The mathematics of matched betting doesn't change the simple fact that it's just another venue for gambling; the risk involved to those making bets and the bookies who manage the books doesn't change what it is. I'm in agreement with @Who me: investing in a business venture is not gambling, it's an effort to help produce a means for others to make an honest living. This is assuming, of course, that the business venture in question is legitimate to begin with. 

[GandalfTheWise]

Many years ago, various long-distance companies were competing for customers.   I cannot recall if it was cash bonus or a free month or what, but my wife kept changing from carrier to carrier every couple of weeks for perhaps 3 to 4 months.  I think the companies eventually wised up that a lot of people were chasing the incentives rather than the service and stopped doing it.  I also recall some time ago that you could make money when credit card companies were offering introductory deals like no interest for a month or two.  Basically, get one card, max it out and invest that money, and then when it was ready to go over to charging monthly fees, get a second card and use it to pay off the first one.  Basically, it was a "free" loan to invest as long as the credit card companies kept offering these deals.  Of course, if the investment didn't work out, you'd have to come up with the money somewhere the day the companies stopped competing with each other.   I'd guess some people pocketed some money and other people ended up in debt.

My sense is this is something similar where online betting companies are trying to attract customers with the incentive of a "place one bet and get the second one free" or "two for the price of one" type of things.  As long as they keep doing that, some people have figured out how to pocket their advertising dollars.  The process is that you have to pay to place a bet (e.g. the Packers will beat the Titans this week) and then you use your free bet (used to attract new customers) to place the opposite bet (Packers will lose or tie to the Titans this week).  By doing your research on the events or whatever to bet on and doing the accounting of odds and costs correctly and placing things correctly, you come out ahead with either outcome of the game.  It's similar to what hedge funds do in both investing for and against various things and pocketing the difference.   The key is working through those details correctly.  The technical issue is that you do have to put money in to play, and that if something is done incorrectly that you can lose money.  Until the companies doing this wise up to people in essence pocketing their advertising money, they'll probably keep doing this.   

The hype surrounding it seems to hide a few serious issues.  The first is, as far as I can tell, this is a taxable activity at least in some parts of the world (which could turn into a mess keeping track of losing bets versus winning bets).  As near as I can tell in US, the IRS has some specialized rules.   The second is that some serious mathematical work and research needs to be done to capitalize on the free offers by properly figuring out what to bet for and against as well as carefully reading the legal contracts from each and every company whose offer you take.  I really doubt some free internet calculator is going to do that very well.  If you don't know what you are doing, you can potentially lose more money on the free second bet than you gain winning the first.  My gut feeling as a PhD in physics with decades of experience doing analytic work is that there are a lot of hidden gotchas in this that will cost you money if you don't know what you are doing. 

 

[Guest kingdombrat]

Today's {Bookies} are just people who've made it and have enough cash flow to bet against the odds them self knowing the probability factor is on their side.

 

Technically speaking, they are no different than a person who has extra cash flow and then begins to become a [loan] dealer for homes and other items that is not associated with banks or government institutions.

 

These are not like the {Bookies} that if you miss a payment you get a visit from someone who is reminding you of the consequences.

 

But isn't your question still on the lines of "hey, God made Marijuana, Marijuana is legal, hence I should be able to smoke it without it being morally wrong?"

Edited December 25, 2020 by kingdombrat

[Marathoner]

5 hours ago, kingdombrat said:

Today's {Bookies} are just people who've made it and have enough cash flow to bet against the odds them self knowing the probability factor is on their side.

 

Technically speaking, they are no different than a person who has extra cash flow and then begins to become a [loan] dealer for homes and other items that is not associated with banks or government institutions.

 

These are not like the {Bookies} that if you miss a payment you get a visit from someone who is reminding you of the consequences.

 

But isn't your question still on the lines of "hey, God made Marijuana, Marijuana is legal, hence I should be able to smoke it without it being morally wrong?"

Bookies manage betting schemes, my friend. While their trade has been legitimized in the UK what they do remains illegal in many states in the U.S., exceptions such as Nevada noted. The US Supreme Court made it possible for individual states to determine the legality of bookmaking. 

The legality is an issue where the collection of debts is concerned. When bookmaking is illegal, how do you think debts are collected? Asking nicely?

[Guest kingdombrat]

16 minutes ago, Marathoner said:

Bookies manage betting schemes, my friend. While their trade has been legitimized in the UK what they do remains illegal in many states in the U.S., exceptions such as Nevada noted. The US Supreme Court made it possible for individual states to determine the legality of bookmaking. 

The legality is an issue where the collection of debts is concerned. When bookmaking is illegal, how do you think debts are collected? Asking nicely?

I know specifically how they are collected.

[Michael37]

On 12/25/2020 at 12:29 PM, GandalfTheWise said:

My gut feeling as a PhD in physics with decades of experience doing analytic work is that there are a lot of hidden gotchas in this that will cost you money if you don't know what you are doing. 

This is true. I recall watching a TV reality series hosted by Sir Richard Branson where he gave contestants all sorts of tasks that tested their decision making and entrepreneurial skills. One by one they were eliminated until on Necker Island at Branson's resort, just one young man was left with one final test.

He was given a day to decide whether to accept his prize of 1 million dollars or risk the flip of a coin for either 2 million dollars or nothing.

When he decided to accept the 1 million dollars rather than risk the coin toss he found out that if he had chosen to risk losing the 1 million dollars for a 50% chance of winning 2 million, regardless of the outcome Branson would have wiped him from the further huge investment in his entrepreneurial venture that he was entitled to as the winning contestant.   

[choir loft]

On 12/14/2020 at 8:01 AM, Raymond2020 said:

Matched betting is a betting technique used by individuals to profit from free bets and bonuses offered by bookmakers. In theory it is risk free as it is based on a mathematical equation rather then chance. So matched betting cannot be classified as gambling. 

There are so many testimonials all over the internet from people that agrees with this.

What bothers me a little is that it is stated in the rules and policies of the bookmakers that the bonuses are for recreational purposes only and have the right to withhold payments etc if they find out that you take advantage of the bonuses.

Now that's exactly what matched betting is. We take advantage of the bonuses.

Now as a born again Christian I'm not sure if this is morally right etc.

Make a bet and win big.

Suppose this happens.

Go to your pastor and explain what happened and how much money you made.    If you offer him 10% or 25% of your winnings I'll bet you'll be forgiven on the spot.

Is this a fair and accurate measure of Christian conscience?  Probably not, but that's the way it is.   Nobody seeks Godly ways else this entire discussion wouldn't have started in the first place.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...