Genesis 4:7

[Riverwalker]

4 hours ago, Frits said:

Bro Riverwalker,

Again a parable:

Our country (the Netherlands) was occupied by Nazi Germany in the Second World War.
The enemy had entered our country and was in control!  Everyone in the Netherlands was confronted daily with the yoke of the enemy.

But the children born in our country at that time (1940-1945), were still Dutch and not Germans.
Because we are dominated by an occupier (the devil), because one man (Adam) has relinquished dominion (Lk.4:6) and thus sin has entered the world (Rm.5:12), still means not yet that by birth we got the nature of the enemy?  On the other hand, the nature of the enemy was present in those Dutch who fully agreed with the occupier, these were the NSB members! After the war they were punished.

God bless you.

But the point you are missing, is that we are all nazis/ (in this anaology)

We have not been invaded and we haven't been good since we have understood good and evil

"For all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God

We are not innocent victims of an invading army. We are the army

[Frits]

5 hours ago, Riverwalker said:

But the point you are missing, is that we are all nazis/ (in this anaology)

We have not been invaded and we haven't been good since we have understood good and evil

"For all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God

We are not innocent victims of an invading army. We are the army

Bro Riverwalker,

I now try to put it into perspective by means of a few questions:

1. The kingdom "earth" over which Adam was to rule, was not attacked by the devil?
He seduced the human couple and could say in Lk.4: 6 about the rulership, "That is delivered unto me".
2. Adam was the first human and wasn't he well created?
He sinned and thereby lost the prospect of the eternal glory of God.
3. But do you think he is totally corrupt, just like the devil?

God bless.

Edited January 21, 2021 by Frits

[Your closest friendnt]

2 hours ago, Riverwalker said:

But the point you are missing, is that we are all nazis/ (in this anaology)

We have not been invaded and we haven't been good since we have understood good and evil

"For all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God

We are not innocent victims of an invading army. We are the army

The scripture it does not say that  we are born sinners, or in death from Christian parents.

The scriptures say that we are born into a sinful world. 

Or that we got the sin from our sanctified mothers and Fathers or our parents who are in the life of Jesus sanctified, and Holy into God, who gave birth to children unto unto Jesus Christ. 

The children born unto Jesus Christ are in the Life of Jesus Christ because of their believing parents.

And if they are not in the Life of Christ then what are they in the death Inheritance of Adam. 

Are we talking about the same thing?  Please let me know.

[Justin Adams]

Gen 3 is cited by the church as the reason for all the evil in the world. The Israelis don't even mention it. What they say is that DEPRAVITY was unleashed by the Gen 6 events.

We are so far removed from their reality that we overlook so much. With the RCC and Augustine at the helm, we have completely lost the plot here. 

The proliferation of evil was firmly laid at the feet of the 'angels that sinned'. Just about all second temple literature and commentaries points to this along with the apostles. It is only the modern unschooled people that fail to see the substantial effects of the Gen 6 account that was so well know by the contemporary readers that so little is said in Genesis.

Read 1st Enoch for a fuller account. Yes, Enoch is the Book Augustine hated because he had his own 'sons of Seth' nonsense that was peddled for centuries and ended up in our seminaries today. There is a general strip-mining of scripture of its spiritual and supernatural content, replacing that with Milton's Paradise Lost or Augustine's City of God.

Even Plato had a more realistic view of history than our current church seems to have.

[Riverwalker]

8 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

The scripture it does not say that  we are born sinners, or in death from Christian parents.

The scriptures say that we are born into a sinful world. 

Or that we got the sin from our sanctified mothers and Fathers or our parents who are in the life of Jesus sanctified, and Holy into God, who gave birth to children unto unto Jesus Christ. 

The children born unto Jesus Christ are in the Life of Jesus Christ because of their believing parents.

And if they are not in the Life of Christ then what are they in the death Inheritance of Adam. 

Are we talking about the same thing?  Please let me know.

There is no sanctified flesh apart from Jesus, those born of man are born with the corrupt flesh that will Cause us to sin.

Romans 3:21  But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all [and on all who believe. For there is no difference; 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God

[Riverwalker]

9 hours ago, Frits said:

Bro Riverwalker,

I now try to put it into perspective by means of a few questions:

1. The kingdom "earth" over which Adam was to rule, was not attacked by the devil?
He seduced the human couple and could say in Lk.4: 6 about the rulership, "That is delivered unto me".
2. Adam was the first human and wasn't he well created?
He sinned and thereby lost the prospect of the eternal glory of God.
3. But do you think he is totally corrupt, just like the devil?

God bless.

1.It was not attacked by the devil it was given to him, by the one who held the Authority at the time, Adam

2. The Genesis rule, like begets like.  His flesh was corrupt, our flesh is corrupt and it tempts us to sin, a temptation we give into...but we were never going to be holy on our own

3. Adam's flesh is corrupt as we all are. And yet it was the same temptation that caused both Satan and Adam to fall.  "I shall be like God" but the flesh is not the soul or the spirit.  So Adam as not all bad

Edited January 22, 2021 by Riverwalker

[Your closest friendnt]

2 hours ago, Riverwalker said:

1.It was not attacked by the devil it was given to him, by the one who held the Authority at the time, Adam

2. The Genesis rule, like begets like.  His flesh was corrupt, our flesh is corrupt and it tempts us to sin, a temptation we give into...but we were never going to be holy on our own

3. Adam's flesh is corrupt as we all are. And yet it was the same temptation that caused both Satan and Adam to fall.  "I shall be like God" but the flesh is not the soul or the spirit.  So Adam as not all bad

I am not sure why you have taken that to far.

First of all Adam was not corrupt and Adam did not sin.

Neither Adam or Eve sin. 

The scripture it does not say because of Adam's sin, Sin enter the world, like Adam had sin in him when he left the Garden, because he did not.

Sin enter the world of man, because of Adam's disobedience, it was impossible for Adam to sin in the Garden. 

And he did not sin outside of the Garden 

He conceived his children in innocence and Cain did not learn to sin from him. 

Do you sin any "corruption" in Abel?

Why "corruption" is not evident in Abel.

Do you see any corruption in Cain before Abel was born? 

Only when Abel seemed to take Cain's place, Abel when Abel got more attention that Cain regarding their burned offsprings.

That time Cain felt the lost, Abel took all the recognition, the first prize. He took some of the love and affection Cain had as the first born in the world. 

Who had all the attention before Abel was born. 

Imagine the happiness of Adam and Eve having the first baby in the world. 

 

Edited January 22, 2021 by Your closest friendnt

[Riverwalker]

54 minutes ago, Your closest friendnt said:

I am not sure why you have taken that to far.

First of all Adam was not corrupt and Adam did not sin.

Neither Adam or Eve sin. 

The scripture it does not say because of Adam's sin, Sin enter the world, like Adam had sin in him when he left the Garden, because he did not.

Sin enter the world of man, because of Adam's disobedience, it was impossible for Adam to sin in the Garden. 

And he did not sin outside of the Garden 

He conceived his children in innocence and Cain did not learn to sin from him. 

Do you sin any "corruption" in Abel?

Why "corruption" is not evident in Abel.

Do you see any corruption in Cain before Abel was born? 

Only when Abel seemed to take Cain's place, Abel when Abel got more attention that Cain regarding their burned offsprings.

That time Cain felt the lost, Abel took all the recognition, the first prize. He took some of the love and affection Cain had as the first born in the world. 

Who had all the attention before Abel was born. 

Imagine the happiness of Adam and Eve having the first baby in the world. 

 

you could not be more wrong

Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

[Your closest friendnt]

1 hour ago, Riverwalker said:

you could not be more wrong

Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

Roman's 5:19

For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

*****Paul in Roman's 5:19, is telling that Adam disobeyed. 

And this is what God said to Adam in

Genesis 3:17

¹⁷ And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;

So far in Genesis there has not yet be mention sin.

this word was not mentioned by God and by anyone yet.

Neither in this scripture nor in the one you quoted which is also written by Paul it is said that Adam sin, or that Adam exit the Garden as a sinner.

let's see if we agree with that, so we can move to what happened next. If that's ok with you. 

 

Edited January 22, 2021 by Your closest friendnt

[Justin Adams]

You must really study Leviticus to understand scriptural sin. 

It is not being fit for God's Holy Presence. There are many types of sin, but if you sin in one, you sin in all. Some like to make out Adam and his off-springs were total reprobates and incapable of any good or acceptable acts. We are labeled 'free-willers' because we know that mankind IS capable of acts that do not make God angry. This is due to a faulty vision of Who God IS.

God designed it all and even the apostle says that even gentiles who do not have the law do the right thing sometimes. Adam was really dumb and took a wrong choice.

What really increased depravity was the Gen 6 events that mankind now willingly joined in. Thus we have a few that did not join the crowd that were destroyed in the deluge. Enoch and Noah were two such people. So it is incorrect to say mankind was totally depraved and incapable of any good.

Sure mankind is dumb and makes very poor and selfish choices. But it requires supernatural evil to really magnify our propensity for the unholy. So therefore, Yeshua came to put it all right and heal God's Cosmos. Yeshua made a way where there was no way - even thru the veil to the very throne of God. All we must do is have BELIEVING LOYALTY in the One True God thru Yeshua.

Edited January 22, 2021 by Justin Adams