70 Years of Captivity in Babylon

[Charlie744]

Jeremiah prophesied the Jews (Israel) would be in captivity in Babylon for 70 years. I believe the end of this period was in the year after Cyrus conquered Babylon and Belshazzar was killed. Some identify this date between 535 to 539 BC. If the event causing the end of the 70 years is accurate / correct, when is the event that begins this period?

There maybe a few interpretations based on whether the punishment or banishment is on the people (their captivity for 70 years), is on the land (the land must sit idle for 70 years), or a counting on the actual number of years in captivity (the must be in "Babylonian" captivity).

From the perspective of the Jews and Jeremiah -

So,the begin date or more importantly, the begin "event" is what I am trying to learn. If we travel 70 years back in time from the Cyrus decree, what is the "event"? Is it when Daniel along with the first wave are taken? Is it the 2nd or final wave of Jews taken away and where the Temple is completely destroyed (3rd wave)? 

From the perspective of the Babylonians (specifically Belshazzar) =

And how would this beginning "event" be seen from their captors? If asked, what would they say is the beginning of the 70 years prophesied in the Jewish Scriptures (they certainly were aware of the prophecy and timing). 

I don't believe the starting points are the same for the two parties, and this could have significant consequences (or why else would God have Daniel draw our attention to Daniel 1:1?

Hope you talented folks can offer some of your thoughts on this..... thanks in advance, Charlie

 

[WilliamL]

606 - 537 B.C. Seventy 360-day years, which equal almost exactly 69 365-1/4-day years.

606 was when Nebuchadnezzar first subjugated the Jewish king Jehoiakim.  537 was when the decree of Cyrus took effect. This was the political side of the prophecy.

588-519 B.C.  588 marked the destruction of the Temple and Jerusalem.  519 was when the Temple was rebuilt under the decree of Darius. This was the religious side of the prophecy.

 

P.S. Seven times/2520 360-day = 2484 solar years from these events resulted in the following. (The 7 Times prophecy is found in Leviticus 26. It speaks of the return of Israel from exile.) 

606 BC- 1879 AD  The latter date marked the start of Jewish Aliyahs to the land of Israel, with the founding of Petach Tikveh, the first Jewish agricultural settlement of returned Jews.

537 BC - 1948  The latter date marked the establishment of the State of Israel.

588 BC - 1897 AD  The latter date marked the establishment of the First Zionist Congress, which was to prepare for the establishment of the goals of Zionism.

519 BC - 1967 AD  The latter date marked the capture of the Temple Mount in the 6-Day War.

Edited January 14, 2021 by WilliamL

[Charlie744]

19 minutes ago, WilliamL said:

606 - 537 B.C. Seventy 360-day years, which equal almost exactly 69 365-1/4-day years.

606 was when Nebuchadnezzar first subjugated the Jewish king Jehoiakim.  537 was when the decree of Cyrus took effect. This was the political side of the prophecy.

588-519 B.C.  588 marked the destruction of the Temple and Jerusalem.  519 was when the Temple was rebuilt under the decree of Darius. This was the religious side of the prophecy.

 

P.S. Seven times/2520 360-day = 2484 solar years from these events resulted in the following. (The 7 Times prophecy is found in Leviticus 26. It speaks of the return of Israel from exile.) 

606 BC- 1879 AD  The latter date marked the start of Jewish Aliyahs to the land of Israel, with the founding of Petach Tikveh, the first Jewish agricultural settlement of returned Jews.

537 BC - 1948  The latter date marked the establishment of the State of Israel.

588 BC - 1897 AD  The latter date marked the establishment of the First Zionist Congress, which was to prepare for the establishment of the goals of Zionism.

519 BC - 1967 AD  The latter date marked the capture of the Temple Mount in the 6-Day War.

Great stuff William!

So, if you agree the ending point is when Cyrus makes his decree to allow the Jews to return then if we count back 70 years what is that date - not a simple 70 minus some date (whether it is 537 or 536, etc.), but what event at that time? Was it at the first wave Neb had taken the Jews to Babylon? Was it when  the land was truly desolate (I believe this may have been the last wave)?

In Daniel chapter 2 it tells us that “in the second year of the reign of Neb..... “ BUT Daniel was already in Babylon at least 3 years????

So there seems to be some confusion here as to when the 70 years start! I think this “discrepancy” is purposeful! It is or maybe telling us there ARE TWO calculations for us to consider- a 70 year calculation for the Jews and another mistakingly made by the Babylonians. I believe these two 70 year periods are 1 year apart and I would like to try and confirm this through all the talent and knowledge within this site- so many have a clear and deep understanding of the timeline and events than myself and I am sure they are already quite familiar with this... Charlie 

[WilliamL]

5 minutes ago, Charlie744 said:

So, if you agree the ending point is when Cyrus makes his decree to allow the Jews to return then if we count back 70 years what is that date - not a simple 70 minus some date (whether it is 537 or 536, etc.), but what event at that time? Was it at the first wave Neb had taken the Jews to Babylon?

Yes.

6 minutes ago, Charlie744 said:

In Daniel chapter 2 it tells us that “in the second year of the reign of Neb..... “ BUT Daniel was already in Babylon at least 3 years????

This has been much debated among scholars. I suspect the answer may be in the (now) little-known works of Immanuel Velikovsky on this period of history. He has provided evidence that there were two different dates for Nebuchadnezzar's reign as king: an "official" but false one, and the true one. It seems that Nebuchadnezzar's brother was actually the real king appointed to reign after his father, but Nebuchadnezzar overthrew him and then backdated his "official" reign to include the period his brother's reign. (He pretty much succeeded in expunging the record of his brother from history.) The "official" dates are used in the Bible. If I remember correctly, Neb. was the military ruler of a province when he conquered Judah, not the king of Babylon. This might explain this contradictory date, it being a remnant of another record.

[Charlie744]

7 minutes ago, WilliamL said:

Yes.

This has been much debated among scholars. I suspect the answer may be in the (now) little-known works of Immanuel Velikovsky on this period of history. He has provided evidence that there were two different dates for Nebuchadnezzar's reign as king: an "official" but false one, and the true one. It seems that Nebuchadnezzar's brother was actually the real king appointed to reign after his father, but Nebuchadnezzar overthrew him and then backdated his "official" reign to include the period his brother's reign. (He pretty much succeeded in expunging the record of his brother from history.) The "official" dates are used in the Bible. If I remember correctly, Neb. was the military ruler of a province when he conquered Judah, not the king of Babylon. This might explain this contradictory date, it being a remnant of another record.

Thank you... obviously I never heard of this or other possible reconciliations between this discrepancy. 

So, are we able to determine the number of years from the beginning of Neb’s beginning reign to the decree by Cyrus? Does that tie into 70 years or 71 years? 

When do the Jews begin their 70 start date? Has anyone worked this back from Cyrus’s decree to an event - first wave or last wave Of Jews to Babylon? 

Thank you, Charlie 

[Dennis1209]

13 hours ago, Charlie744 said:

Jeremiah prophesied the Jews (Israel) would be in captivity in Babylon for 70 years. I believe the end of this period was in the year after Cyrus conquered Babylon and Belshazzar was killed. Some identify this date between 535 to 539 BC. If the event causing the end of the 70 years is accurate / correct, when is the event that begins this period?

There maybe a few interpretations based on whether the punishment or banishment is on the people (their captivity for 70 years), is on the land (the land must sit idle for 70 years), or a counting on the actual number of years in captivity (the must be in "Babylonian" captivity).

From the perspective of the Jews and Jeremiah -

So,the begin date or more importantly, the begin "event" is what I am trying to learn. If we travel 70 years back in time from the Cyrus decree, what is the "event"? Is it when Daniel along with the first wave are taken? Is it the 2nd or final wave of Jews taken away and where the Temple is completely destroyed (3rd wave)? 

From the perspective of the Babylonians (specifically Belshazzar) =

And how would this beginning "event" be seen from their captors? If asked, what would they say is the beginning of the 70 years prophesied in the Jewish Scriptures (they certainly were aware of the prophecy and timing). 

I don't believe the starting points are the same for the two parties, and this could have significant consequences (or why else would God have Daniel draw our attention to Daniel 1:1?

Hope you talented folks can offer some of your thoughts on this..... thanks in advance, Charlie

 

You got me curious too, and the best explanation I could find is below. To summarize it, "it's complicated."

Jeremiah 25:11 -  seventy years A symbolic number, possibly representing a single lifetime (see Psa 90:10 and note; Isa 23:15). The period from 605–539 BC was 66 years. The first return from exile was sometime between 539 and 535 BC.

  Aligning the prediction of 70 years of exile with a historical 70-year period is complicated. The year 605 BC did not mark a significant exile of Jews. More Jews were taken into exile in 597 and 586 BC. Jeremiah views the 597 BC exile as more significant because of who was taken (see Jer 24:5). The closest alignment with 70 years comes by reckoning the period from the destruction of the temple in 586 BC to the completion of the second temple in 516 BC. The reference to a 70-year exile also appears in 2 Chr 36:21 and Zech 1:12. The author of Chronicles interprets the 70-year period as the time of an overdue Sabbath rest for the land. This prophecy is developed further in Dan 9 (see Da 9:24 and note).

 

 

[Charlie744]

4 minutes ago, Dennis1209 said:

You got me curious too, and the best explanation I could find is below. To summarize it, "it's complicated."

Jeremiah 25:11 -  seventy years A symbolic number, possibly representing a single lifetime (see Psa 90:10 and note; Isa 23:15). The period from 605–539 BC was 66 years. The first return from exile was sometime between 539 and 535 BC.

  Aligning the prediction of 70 years of exile with a historical 70-year period is complicated. The year 605 BC did not mark a significant exile of Jews. More Jews were taken into exile in 597 and 586 BC. Jeremiah views the 597 BC exile as more significant because of who was taken (see Jer 24:5). The closest alignment with 70 years comes by reckoning the period from the destruction of the temple in 586 BC to the completion of the second temple in 516 BC. The reference to a 70-year exile also appears in 2 Chr 36:21 and Zech 1:12. The author of Chronicles interprets the 70-year period as the time of an overdue Sabbath rest for the land. This prophecy is developed further in Dan 9 (see Da 9:24 and note).

 

 

Dennis, thanks a lot! I think it is safe to say that the end period of the 70 years is when Cyrus delivered his decree to allow the Jews to return home. So, if we walk backwards 70 years what do we come to?

Is this when Daniel is taken into captivity- first wave?

Is it the last wave when Neb. destroyed the Temple some years later?

Does the difference mentioned in Daniel (chapters 1 and 2) where Daniel had already been in Babylon for 3 years and where it tells us that in the 2nd year of Nebs. reign he called for Daniel?

It is confusing but like William mentioned, this has been studied by many scholars over the years and someone might have a strong answer to this...

Charlie

[Dennis1209]

25 minutes ago, Charlie744 said:

Dennis, thanks a lot! I think it is safe to say that the end period of the 70 years is when Cyrus delivered his decree to allow the Jews to return home. So, if we walk backwards 70 years what do we come to?

Is this when Daniel is taken into captivity- first wave?

Is it the last wave when Neb. destroyed the Temple some years later?

Does the difference mentioned in Daniel (chapters 1 and 2) where Daniel had already been in Babylon for 3 years and where it tells us that in the 2nd year of Nebs. reign he called for Daniel?

It is confusing but like William mentioned, this has been studied by many scholars over the years and someone might have a strong answer to this...

Charlie

Being just a Bible student still on milk, it's well above my paygrade. But, like that little commentary may suggest, could it be who was taken and when, that started the 70 year time clock, and not an event? Daniel, Jeremiah, Ezekiel and a couple of the minor prophets were all contemporaries, taken to Babylon at different times. But I just dunt know?

[Charlie744]

28 minutes ago, Dennis1209 said:

Being just a Bible student still on milk, it's well above my paygrade. But, like that little commentary may suggest, could it be who was taken and when, that started the 70 year time clock, and not an event? Daniel, Jeremiah, Ezekiel and a couple of the minor prophets were all contemporaries, taken to Babylon at different times. But I just dunt know?

Yes, the 70 years back from the Cyrus decree will / should identify the date / event that took place.

And once that is identified it will / should easily be able to look at how the Babylonians would have calculated the 70 years!

Charlie

[Charlie744]

Dennis, here is my thought while I was studying Daniel - and specifically when I was trying to drill down on Belshazzar and the writing on the wall incident in chapter 5.

In my opinion there were two components or factors that tied into the downfall of Babylon which occurred at the completion of the 70 year prophecy found in Jeremiah .... and God certainly knows how to pull everything together perfectly. It is up to us to try and interpret  / find HIS meaning in all things. Without the Holy Spirit we would have no chance of succeeding!

The two components of Belshazzar's demise are an internal and an external enemy or conflict. Externally, Belshazzar thought he had absolutely no worries if the walls of Babylon could possibly be breached. No one has had any success and everyone believed this city was impossible to conquer - whether by force or surrounding it with massive number of troops and try and starve them or prevent them from accessing their water requirements. But we all know through our history books that the Mede-Persians did have success in taking Babylon and probably without even shooting an arrow.

But I am interested in the internal power or conquerer which is the reason I was asking for some assistance within this site to lock down the timing of the 70 year prophecy - both views; a Jewish calculation ending with Cyrus' decree and a Babylonian calculation. Here is the issue: 

As you are aware, despite all the evidence available and known to Belshazzar regarding the One True God (the God of the Israelites and the God his grandfather, Nebuchadnezzar who had to learn the hard way, if you will, he refused to accept and honor the God of the people taken from Judah. And here is where I believe the 70 year prophecy plays out for the Babylonians and specifically Belshazzar - I believe Belshazzar sealed his doom when he brought forward the Holy vessels held in storage from when Nebuchadnezzar brought them from Judah some 70 years earlier. But what Nebuchadnezzar failed to do was to dishonor those same Holy vessels. He may have simply placed them in storage during those many years where he tested and lost to God, but once he accepted the God of Israel, I am sure he kept them in place so as not to dishonor them. Now we see Belshazzar come to reign and he ignores the history and evidence of the One True God - he certainly is aware of all the stories as well as the 70 year prophecy when the Jews would return back to Judah.  Consequently, I believe he had calculated the end of the 70 years but he used an incorrect starting date.... this is why I need the Jewish starting date since that is the correct starting period. We know for certain that one year after Belshazzar was killed and Cyrus took command, he gave the decree to allow the Jews to return. However, I believe Belshazzar was under the impression that the 70 year prophecy had just been met and since he was still in  power and the Jews had no chance of being allowed to return under his reign, he completely discounted the Jewish God and felt quite comfortable ignoring their God and this prophecy in particular. Consequently, he would bring forth those sacred vessels and have everyone drink from them during his extremely large feast. This feast of his would now celebrate two things: that there was no one who could possibly conquer Babylon from the outside walls and also that he would indeed be the most powerful king on earth AND would no longer have to fear or concern himself with this false God of the Jews. I believe he was simply one year early in his calculations. As soon as he brought forth the sacred vessels we have the "handwriting on the wall" incident ensuring he would be destroyed. Within hours the Medes-Persians would enter into Babylon and conquer the city.

I was asking folks to assist me with the verses in Daniel that reveal a "timing difference" - where in chapter 1 we learn that Daniel spent the first 3 years in the Babylonian college program where he learned everything Babylonian and the verse in chapter 2 where Nebuchadnezzar brought Daniel forth and mentioning it was his second year he reigned..... was this the error factor in the 70 year calculation used by Belshazzar and his astrologers resulting in a one year earlier error?

Hope to hear back with your thoughts, Charlie