What Caused the Big Bang?

[Guest]

Questions have now come up whether or not the Big Bang Theory is disproved by the data coming from the James Webb Space Telescope.  While some scientists claim Webb disproves the Big Bang others say it just shows irregularities.  An interesting time to be an astronomer/physicist and Christian.

[JohnR7]

On 9/1/2022 at 2:59 PM, David1701 said:

The "Big Bang" was not discovered; it was hypothesised.

The Big Bang is a Hebrew belief that goes back 1,000 years to Nachmanides in the 13th century. It is said to be a part of the oral tradition that goes back to Moses, Abraham and Adam. 

I had a dream when I was 8 years old where God showed me that the Universe was expanding, and He told me that there will be a time when the universe will shrink and all come back together again. Just was we will all be united in Him. The expanding universe shows us how people are drifting apart from Each other. It is only in God, through Jesus that we are united back together again. 

We see this at Babylon, where God confused the languages because He only wants us united together with Him and not apart from Him. 

[JohnR7]

18 hours ago, Saved.One.by.Grace said:

Questions have now come up whether or not the Big Bang Theory is disproved by the data coming from the James Webb Space Telescope.  While some scientists claim Webb disproves the Big Bang others say it just shows irregularities.  An interesting time to be an astronomer/physicist and Christian.

How can you disprove the "Big Bang". The universe is expanding. If you go back 14 billion years, the universe would be condensed or contracted with no space. If you want to come up with a better theory, that is fine. But you are stuck with the explanation we currently have until you are able to produce a better one. 

Read what Gerald Schroeder says. He has a PhD from MIT in Astro Physics and is well qualified to be an expert on this subject. 

http://geraldschroeder.com/wordpress/the-age-of-the-universe/

[JohnR7]

On 8/29/2022 at 7:17 AM, other one said:

let there be light

I was a technical theater major in college. I studied the physics of light. Not only are we given light, but we are given the ability to perceive that light. We have cameras on our phone that can photograph that light bouncing off of objects that absorb or reflect that light. 

We know that there is NO TIME at the speed of light. 14 billion years becomes one week, seven 24 hour days when you are very close to light and the speed of light. We are told that God is light and there is no darkness in Him. There is no time with God. So one week of 24 hour days at the beginning translates into 14 billion years at the end. God declares the end from the beginning. 

This is why we can still see the early universe in the beginning. Because we can photograph the light because it is just now getting here. 

When the Bible says: In the Beginning. That is the perspective, from the beginning. Go to the book of revelation is you want the end. 

Edited October 5, 2022 by JohnR7

[Guest]

14 hours ago, JohnR7 said:

How can you disprove the "Big Bang". The universe is expanding. If you go back 14 billion years, the universe would be condensed or contracted with no space. If you want to come up with a better theory, that is fine. But you are stuck with the explanation we currently have until you are able to produce a better one. 

Read what Gerald Schroeder says. He has a PhD from MIT in Astro Physics and is well qualified to be an expert on this subject. 

http://geraldschroeder.com/wordpress/the-age-of-the-universe/

https://mindmatters.ai/2022/08/james-webb-space-telescope-shows-big-bang-didnt-happen-wait/

[teddyv]

1 hour ago, Saved.One.by.Grace said:

https://mindmatters.ai/2022/08/james-webb-space-telescope-shows-big-bang-didnt-happen-wait/

The link includes a reference to an article that reportedly starts off with "Panic". The full title is:

"Panic! At the Disks: First Rest-frame Optical Observations of Galaxy Structure at z>3 with JWST in the SMACS 0723 Field"

(Here)

I don't know how up to date people are with music, but "Panic! At the Disco" is a pop band. This is a clear set up as a pun. I don't think anyone is actually panicking. Certainly there will be a lot of rethinking going on, but that's typical scientific inquiry.

[HAZARD]

The big bang is a man-made theory nothing more. "In THE BEGINNING?" When was that? Who knows exactly when or what period of time, "IN THE BEGINNING" was?

 

In Genesis it says, Genesis 1:1, "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth."

 

It does not say, 6'000 years ago God created the heaven and the earth.

 

John 1;1 also states, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." It does not say, In the beginning, 6,000 years ago was the Word?

 

It does not say, Six thousand years ago was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God, about six thousand years ago?

 

The next two verses also do not mention any time period or time when things were created.

 

John 1: 2, The same was in the beginning with God.
   

John 1; 3, All things were made by him; and without him was not anything made that was made.

 

God and the Word, before he became flesh and dwelt among us are ETERNAL beings. Sure as God the Word had no beginning but as a Man, He had a beginning.

 

John 1;14; "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth."

 

It is interesting to note that astronomers have discovered planets about 150,000,000 light years from the Earth. This is about 14,690,062,800,000,000,000 miles from the Earth, or a distance light can travel in 150,000,000 years at a speed of 186,000 miles per second. Astronomers also say there are other universes even beyond this one. They say about 6,000,000,000 stars have been discovered and they are all suns to other planets. If this is true then the universe is beyond human conception.

 

It is hard to conceive that God has existed from all eternity past as a lazy being, not doing anything until a few millennium ago, when He finally decided to do something.

 

It is easier to conceive that God has been making things in all the eternal past. Jesus Himself said;

 

 John 5:17, "But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work."

And they will continue to work through eternity future, and we will be included in their work!

 

I ask you, is the universe, many parts of it that are not in rebellion, in sin against God inhabited,? I believe so because of this simple Scripture;

 

Revelation 12:12, "Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them . . . . . . Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time." yes, his time will shortly and positively and securely cut off!

 

The Bible says the heavens cannot be measured and the host of Heaven cannot be counted (Jer. 31:37 ; 33:22-25). It is also clear that the spirit world of angels, seraphims, cherubims, and other spirit beings were created before the Earth, for the "sons of God," (angels), were present and shouting when God laid the foundations of the Earth. It is also clear from this passage that God created the heavens, including the moon, the sun and stars were created before the Earth, for "the morning stars" sang together when God laid the foundations of the Earth. This would be the logical order of creation, to make the place before creating the inhabitants to live in or on the place.

Since inhabitants were a part of the creation and not part of Creators (Col. 1:15-18), they naturally would have to be created on which they were to live. This is the way it happened on Earth in the six days of the restoration of the Earth from chaos to a second habitable state (Gen. 1:3-2:25).

 

Bearing all this in mind, we either believe our God can and did create everything which included the molecules of the universe, from the basic atomic particles to the subatomic particles, and even particles we know nothing about yet in His creation we see and live in today!

 

In a nutshell and put simply;

“In the beginning" [literally by periods or ages] God created the heaven, [Hebrew, heavens] and the earth, not 6000 years ago God created the Heaven and the earth.
When we speak of the six days and the creation of the present life on Earth, we can speak with Bible authority that it was about 6000 years ago. This can be seen by the lengths of the various dispensations since Adam. In no Scripture are we taught to believe that the heavens and the Earth were originally created during the six days and at the time of Adam about 6000 years ago.
Some use Exodus 20:8-11; 31:17 to try and prove that the heavens and the Earth were created in the six days of Gen. 1:3-2:25, and therefore, that they were created about 6000 years ago. However, nothing is said of the original creation of the heavens and the Earth in these passages.

In these Scriptures the Hebrew word 'ASAH,' meaning to make out of already existing material, is used instead of the word 'BARA,' to create. These verses picture the re-creation work of the six days and not the original creation "In the beginning."

'ASAH' never means to create. It is translated 'MADE,' 659 times; 'MAKE,' 449 times; 'MAKETH,' 59 times and 'MAKEST,' sixteen times; 'MAKER,' thirteen times; 'MAKING,' eleven times; and 'MADEST,' three times.

When God said, "In six days, the Lord 'MADE' heaven and Earth," he had in mind the restoration of the heaven (firmament, or clouds) the Earth to a habitable state as it was before the destruction of Lucifer’s kingdom by the flood and Gen. 1:2.

 

The Bible teaches that redeemed man will go back and forth between Heaven and other planets in the New Heavens and the New Earth. This was to be man’s privilege before he fell, but he sinned and came short of the glory of God (Rom. 3:23). Man was originally given dominion over the sun, moon, and stars and would have had to have access to them in order to rule them (Ps. 8:3-6). Man, in the eternal future, will become heirs of God and joint-heirs with Christ and will be able to be with them where they are in all eternity (Rom. 8:17-18; 1 Cor. 15:24-28; Heb. 2:5-11; Rev. 21:1–22:5).

 

Did you know: That Heaven and the planets are inhabited?

September 14, 2018
 

This is clear from many Scriptures: “Rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them . . . he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme… them that dwell in heaven” (Rev. 12:12; 13:6). See also Col. 1:16-18; Rom. 1:20; 1 Cor. 15:35-50.

[HAZARD]

 

EVIDENCE DISPROVING THE BIG BANG THEORY

Did the Universe begin with a super explosion of a small mass 10 billion years ago?

Briefly, the following problems are observed in our solar system that defy the Big Bang
explanation:

1. Uranus and Venus rotate in the opposite direction to the other planets.
2. Some planets have eccentric or tilted orbits.
3. Some planet’s satellite moons move in retrograde (backwards) motion.
4. Our moon has a lower density than earth. If it was thrown out from earth, it’s density would be more.
5. The sun’s angular momentum is 1/200th of the planets.

This small angular momentum makes it unlikely that the planets could be thrown out of the sun.

Source: “Unlocking the Mysteries of Creation”. D.R. Peterson, p.45.

Big Bang theory says that a large quantity of nothing condensed by gravity into a single tiny spot and then exploded outward into hydrogen and helium to eventually form stars, galaxies, planets and moons.

Question: What is wrong with this theory? A lot!

1. Nothingness cannot pack together.
2. There would be no ignition to explode a speck of nothingness.
3. The theoretical explosion would fall back on itself giving a theoretical black
hole. R L St. Peter, 1974.

4. There is not enough anti-matter in the universe. A Big Bang would produce equal amounts of matter and anti-matter, but only small amounts of antimatter exists. (Asimov’s New Guide to Science, p.343).
5. The anti-matter from the Big Bang would have destroyed all the regular matter.
6. There is no way to unite all the outward rushing particles from the central
explosion, because they would keep getting farther apart over time travelled. (See Novotny’s research).
7. The particles would maintain the same speed and direction forever, with no way for them to begin circling each other as gas clouds. Linear motion would not change to angular momentum.
8. Neither hydrogen or helium in outer space would clump together, because gases on earth push apart, but never clump together. Gas clouds in space expand, and don’t contract to form anything.
9. Careful analysis has revealed that there is not enough matter in gas clouds to produce stars.
10. If the Big Bang theory were true, instead of a universe of evenly mixed stars and galaxies, there would only be an outer rim of fast moving matter.
11. There is not enough matter in the universe to explain the origin of matter and stars. The universe is 100 times less dense than the Big Bang theory requires. Where is this “missing mass”? This too little matter could not form stars.
12. The Big Bang would only produce hydrogen and helium, not the other 90 elements.
13. The nuclear gaps at atomic mass 5 and 8 make it impossible for hydrogen and helium to produce any heavier elements, because neither a proton or neutron can be attached to a helium nucleus of mass 4. If it were not for this important “helium mass 4 gap”, the sun would radiate uranium towards earth. There is
no stable atom of atomic mass 5 or 8. So a hydrogen fusion reaction (bomb) combines hydrogen to form deuterium, which doubles to form Helium 4 and stops there. Hence a hydrogen explosion (even in a star), does not cross mass 5 gap (E.g. H=1.008; Deuterium=2.016; He=4.006; Lithium=6.939; Berylium=9.012; Boron=10.811, etc.).
14. There are no first-generation stars (containing only hydrogen and helium) in the sky, which supposedly exploded to give second-generation stars, as the Big Bang theory requires.
15. Random explosions do not produce intricate orbits of suns, binary stars, galaxies, star clusters, planets and moons.
16. There are not enough supernova explosions to produce the heavier elements. We can see stars up to 15 billion light years away, but why are we not seeing many stellar explosions far out in space? Because the Big Bang theory is wrong. The stars are doing fine.
17. The most distant stars, which evolutionists date to the time of the Big Bang, are not exploding, and yet contain heavier elements.
18. According to the Big Bang theory, older stars should have more heavy elements because they are continually making them. But all stars, from ‘young’ to ‘old’, have similar amounts of heavy elements
19. Why do some stars spin backward to other stars? The Big Bang theory can’t explain this.

20. Why do stars turn? Why do galaxies rotate? Why do planets orbit stars? Why do binary stars circle one another? How could super fast straight line motion from a Big Bang change to rotating and orbiting motion with angular momentum?
21. Why is the universe so “lumpy” with galaxies grouped into galaxy clusters, which are grouped into larger super clusters?
22. Evolutionists claim that background radiation in space is the best evidence that the Big Bang occurred as the last remnant of a Big Bang explosion. This is wrong because:

a) It comes from all directions except one direction being the Big Bang source.
b) The radiation is too weak to fit the theory. (Fred Hoyle).
c) It lacks the required 2.7K black body spectrum required for the Big Bang theory.
d) The spectrum should be a much hotter 100oK black body spectrum than its 2.73K spectrum.
e) It is too smooth.

Instead, this background radiation is what we’d expect from the billions of stars in the universe.

23. According to Big Bang theory, the further we look out into space, the further back into time we see. This means that the furthest stars and galaxies should be the youngest.
Yet research shows that furthest away stars are just like those nearby.
24. If Big Bang theory were true, all stars would be moving in the same direction, but stars, clusters and galaxies are moving in various directions opposite to one another.
25. Every star is redshifted to some extent. The further a star or galaxy is from us, the more its light is shifted. Big Bang theory concludes that this proves that the universe is expanding outward from the source of the Big Bang. They base this on the hypothesis that the “speed theory” of redshift is the only cause of the redshift. (If light is travelling towards us, the wavelength is compressed or blueshifted. If it is moving away from us, the wavelength is stretched out or redshifted.).

Other explanations for this redshift are:

a) Gravitational redshift. In 1915, Einstein predicted that gravity could bend light and thus cause a redshift. This was later proven correct. As light travels towards us from distant stars, it passes other stars, which slightly slows the beam, causing its spectrum to be shifted towards the red.

b) Second-order Doppler shift: A light source moving at right angles to an observer will always be redshifted. This would be explained by the universe moving slowly in a vast circle around a centre.

c) Energy loss redshift: Light waves may lose energy as they travel across long distances. Big Bang theory maintains that the speed redshift is the only cause of the redshift, so they can say that the universe is expanding outwards as a result of the Big Bang. Speed redshift is not the only cause of redshift because:
   a) Nearly all stars and galaxies are redshifted. If Big Bang theory really occurred, the universe would be rushing out from where the explosion occurred, not away from earth. If there was a Big Bang we could locate its origin by measuring redshifts.
   b) The closest stars and galaxies are the least redshifted. The further away a star is, the more would gravitational and energy loss redshifts slow it.
   c) Quasars strongly disprove the speed theory of redshift. Some quasars have redshifts of 300% which equals speeds over 90% of the speed of light. Some quasars have redshifts of 400%.

Three quasars, according to the speed theory are moving faster than the speed of light.

One quasar appears to be moving 8 times faster than light, which is impossible.

26. Most binary stars circling one another are of different composition. Big Bang theory can’t explain this.
27. Stars within globular clusters ought to be all crashing into one another if any nonthinking force brought them together, but they are not.
28. Stars never get closer than 3.5 light years apart. Would randomness produce this? No.
29. Stellar evolution is non-observable. Stars are not evolving in space. Plants and animals are not evolving on earth.
30. The sun would have to spin extremely fast to hurl off planets and moons, yet it rotates very slowly.
31. Big Bang theory cannot explain where stars, planets and moons originated, nor how they arrived at their present precise, intricate orbits. How could every moon be located at the precise distance to keep it from flying into or away from its planet, from a Big Bang explosion?
32. Uranus and Venus rotate backward compared to all the other planets. The other 7 rotate forward.
33. One third of the 60 moons rotate opposite to the rotational direction of their planets.

Why?

34. Our planets and moons are so strikingly different that they could not have originated from the same Big Bang source. “If you look at all the planets and the 60 or so satellites (moons), it’s very hard to find two that are the same.” (Ross Taylor of ANU Canberra, in “The Solar Systems New Diversity”, Richard Kerr, Science 265, 2 Sep 1994, p.1360).
35. The chemical makeup of Earth’s moon and Earth are distinctly different, implying that the moon formed under different conditions.
36. Nearly all of Saturn’s 17 moons are extremely different. It has 3 sets of moons sharing the same orbit. Some moons travel clockwise, others travel anti-clockwise. The surface
of Iapetus is 5 times darker on one side than the other. Hyperion is potato shaped.
Enceladus has an extremely smooth surface, whereas other moons are much rougher.
Why? Titan’s atmosphere is thicker than earth’s.
How could all these moons originate by chance?
Elemental Forces of the Universe.
37. Gravity Force is perfectly balanced.
a) If gravity were stronger, smaller stars could not form.
b) If gravity were weaker, bigger stars could not form, no heavy elements could exist,
only dwarf stars would exist, which would radiate light too feebly to support life.
38. Proton/Neutron mass ratio
The neutron mass can only exceed the proton mass by twice the electron’s mass (About 1
part per 1000).
a) If the proton to neutron mass ratio were less, atoms would fly apart.
b) If the proton to neutron mass ratio were greater, atoms would crush together, quickly
decaying into a neutron, positron and neutrino, thus destroying hydrogen, the main
element in the universe.
The Master Designer planned that the proton’s mass would be slightly smaller than a
neutron’s mass, otherwise the universe would collapse. If protons decayed, the universe
would collapse.
39. Photon mass to Baryon mass ratio.
If this ratio were higher, stars and galaxies could not hold together by gravitational
attraction.
40. Nuclear force holds an atom together.
a) If it were smaller, there would only be hydrogen and no heavier elements.

b) If it were larger, there would be no hydrogen but only heavier elements. With no
hydrogen there would be no stable stars, and no life.
c) If it were 1% weaker or stronger, carbon could not exist, nor could life exist.
d) If it were 2% stronger, protons could not exist.
41. Electromagnetic Force in an atom binds negative charged electrons to a positively charged
nucleus
a) If it were smaller or larger, no chemical bonds could form.
b) If the electron charge were 3 times larger, no element could exist other than
hydrogen.
c) If the electron charge were one-third as large, all neutral atoms would be destroyed
by the lowest heat-such as is found in outer space.
Conclusion: It would be impossible for evolution to produce the correct balance of these
forces. They were planned. These 4 basic forces (gravitational, electromagnetic, weak and
strong nuclear forces) differ so greatly in strength, that the strongest is 1040 times stronger
than the weakest of them. Yet Big Bang theory mathematics requires that all basic forces
had to be the same strength before and just after the Big Bang Explosion occurred.
Evolutionists cannot claim that these precise, delicate balances of forces occurred by
“natural selection”, or “mutations”, for we are here dealing with the basic properties of
matter. There is no room for gradual “evolving”. The proton-neutron mass ratio has always
been the same. It will not change. It began just right. There was no second chance. This
applies to all the other forces and balances in elemental matter and the laws of physics
governing them.
If you open a typical science book on astronomy, you will find theories about the origin of
the universe and stars stated with great certainty to the public.
By 1970, so much scientific data had repudiated the basic aspects of various cosmologies,
that in April 1972, the top minds in stellar physics, chemistry and astronomy gathered at the
Nice Symposium to resolve: a) How did the first cloud break apart and change into stars?
b) How did the gas clouds whirl to form stellar objects to solve the angular momentum
problem?
c) How did the gas push itself into solids?
d) How did the planets, with their present properties and solar distances form?
If you attend such a closed-door conference, you will find worried men, desperate theories,
scientific facts condemning these theories, a lack of alternative explanations, an atmosphere of hopeless despair in the face of unproven ideas, and no solutions or scientific experiments to alleviate the situation.

Key: The problem is that evolutionists do not want the public to know that scientists cannot figure out how galaxies, stars and planets originated.

[teddyv]

I don't understand why some oddities in our solar system would necessarily invalidate the Big Bang theory. The solar system is much younger than the origin of the universe. Why variations of Saturn's moons has any relevance is also puzzling.

 

[JohnR7]

On 10/5/2022 at 10:33 PM, HAZARD said:

"In THE BEGINNING?" When was that? Who knows exactly when or what period of time, "IN THE BEGINNING" was?

The beginning was the beginning of time. The beginning was also the beginning of the end because of the Big Chill or Big Freeze. God declares the end from the beginning. The Bible says there was a beginning, and now science says there was a beginning. The "Big Bang" does not mean anything more than what we read in the Bible where there was a beginning. This was when the universe began to expand. It was coined because of a joke and it just stuck as a name we use for when the universe began to expand. There is also a big crunch or a contraction of the universe. God told me in a dream that there is a time when the universe will shrink and everything will all come back together again. 

As far as who knows - that would be the people with PhD's in astro physics. Neil DeGrasse Tyson wrote a very good book on this subject. It is a #1 best seller. 

Edited October 8, 2022 by JohnR7