Billiards Ball Posted February 12, 2021 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,502 Content Per Day: 0.66 Reputation: 662 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/05/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted February 12, 2021 I am assured that this debate will remain fruitless until the mods close this thread. Please everyone remove the speck in my eye before you remove the logs on your Internet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popsthebuilder Posted February 12, 2021 Group: Non-Trinitarian Followers: 2 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 299 Content Per Day: 0.23 Reputation: 87 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/13/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted February 12, 2021 20 minutes ago, Josheb said: You're moving the goal posts and arguing a red herring. Don never said the the law of God was synonymous with the law of sin and death. Nor did he say the fruit of the Spirit is the works of men. I never said the law of sin and death was the law of the Spirit. Are you intentionally arguing straw men? Or has this happened because what Don and I posted wasn't adequately understood? We are not saying what you seem to think we're saying. I asked you to clarify the matter of the law of sin and death and God's law. I did not say or ask anything about the law of the Spirit. You moved the goalposts. Tried to change the conversation. No, it does not help. You were asked to clarify your earlier statement and have not done so. There is no peace in that. Do's post doesn't mention the word "spirit." It does not mention the "law of the Spirit." He's not talking about that law. It's not clear you've correctly understood a single word he actually posted. It appears you're reading what he wrote (and what I wrote) with an already-existing agenda because you keep injecting things into the conversation that no one has said. And then you argue against that thing no one said. Please do not get upset with me for pointing out to you the red herrings, the straw men, and the moving of the goalposts. Go back and re-read Don's post. You've stepped into an already-existing conversation on determinism, or the view "God is in control of everything" being made to say "God controls everything." That is what Don is defending. That is the context of his comments you've been reading. It is not specifically about God's bondservants doing His will. Go back and re-read the conversation. Thought the topic was on the need to abide by the new birth and circumcision of the heart tht your faith might grow to the glorification of GOD; or conversely; nurture not the seed and have it eventually wither away, perhaps even without it ever so much as baring up a sprig, let alone whole fruit. Determinism is akin to hyper calvinism it seems. Such is error; easily shown in numerous ways. You'll find the word "if" a lot in scripture. To say there is no potential and freedom and variable is to make GOD a liar and life a hoax. Im not offended either. Find it odd that one thinks the law of the Spirit isn't the law of GOD, or that the abolished law is the keeping of the two commands in which all the law is accomplished, as opposed to the law of slavery to sin. One cannot serve two masters. peace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don19 Posted February 12, 2021 Group: Senior Member Followers: 7 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 578 Content Per Day: 0.39 Reputation: 255 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/28/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted February 12, 2021 The law of God is to believe Him. It is to hearken unto His voice. Only the sheep know the voice of the Shepherd. The goats know the voice of Moses. Walking in the law of God is believing Him. And if we believe Him, we are sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise. Obeying His voice means being dead to the law of sin and death. It means walking in Christ as we received Him, and not turning back to the works of the law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest clancy Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 Romans 13:10 Love does no harm to its neighbour. Therefore love is the fulfilment of the law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waggles Posted February 12, 2021 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,790 Content Per Day: 0.77 Reputation: 983 Days Won: 1 Joined: 12/20/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted February 12, 2021 (edited) On 1/28/2021 at 2:39 AM, Open7 said: I have came across some verses in the new testament that make it sound like you can lose your salvation. Here in Hebrews 3 verses 6 and 14 below (there are other verses that give this same vibe but I can’t recall them) “But Christ is faithful as the Son over God’s house. And we are his house, if indeed we hold firmly to our confidence and the hope in which we glory.” “We have come to share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original conviction firmly to the very end.” It says ‘if indeed we hold firmly’. I know you can say you have given your life to God, but many will not hold fast, but what if they did give their life to God but never went very far with it. I figured that when your saved your saved, that’s it, but these verses concern me a little for some people I know. Can anyone help? Thanks God indeed is faithful and of Himself he will not lose his sheep. But humans as disciples are fickle and it is us that throw in the towel, walk away from our confession of faith, return to the world, relapse into sinful ways, stop praying, - the scriptures have many, many warnings about backsliding even to the point of becoming reprobates. OSAS is false doctrine. Salvation is a lifelong commitment of endurance. Luke 9:61 Yet another said, “I will follow you, Lord, but let me first say farewell to those at my home.” 62 Jesus said to him, “No one who puts his hand to the plough and looks back is fit for the kingdom of God.” 2Peter 2:20 For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. 21 For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them. 22 What the true proverb says has happened to them: “The dog returns to its own vomit, and the sow, after washing herself, returns to wallow in the mire.” Psalm 78:56-59 Edited February 12, 2021 by Waggles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john1 Posted February 13, 2021 Group: Senior Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 41 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 686 Content Per Day: 0.29 Reputation: 221 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/16/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted February 13, 2021 On 1/27/2021 at 11:09 AM, Open7 said: I have came across some verses in the new testament that make it sound like you can lose your salvation. The bible says many things, look at these verses. Romans chapter 11 verse 32 For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all. 1 Peter chapter 4 verse 8 Above all, love each other deeply, because love covers over a multitude of sins. James chapter 2 verse 13 because judgment without mercy will be shown to anyone who has not been merciful. Mercy triumphs over judgment. I would study the bible and try to follow it, and try not to hurt anyone even yourself, I've read the bible or listened to it 2 or 3 hundred times, and it seems to me no one else has, from what I hear people saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popsthebuilder Posted February 13, 2021 Group: Non-Trinitarian Followers: 2 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 299 Content Per Day: 0.23 Reputation: 87 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/13/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted February 13, 2021 11 minutes ago, Josheb said: No, what you thought is not what Don and I were discussing. This is how and why your posts aren't germane. You jumped into a tangent. You jumped into a tangent without familiarizing yourself fully. That is how the posts became non sequitur. And you're still not clarifying your position as I asked or doing so in a manner relevant to my posts. Therefore, I ask that you either familiarize yourself with the actual content and post accordingly or move on. More non sequitur will be ignored. You arent the op anyway. Sorry i dont get down with compartmentalizing things of faith. Either it is a harmonious unity of doctrine or a mishmash of hogwash. Feel free to ignore my posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mailmandan Posted March 4, 2021 Group: Members Followers: 3 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 27 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 27 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/02/2021 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/29/1966 Share Posted March 4, 2021 (edited) On 1/31/2021 at 10:31 AM, JohnD said: The key element in Hebrews 6 is the "tasting" of the gift / faith... Tasting is not drinking. Tasting is external drinking is internal. Inherent in the idea of "tasting" is the fact that one might or might not decide to accept what is tasted. For example, the same Greek word (geuomai) is used in Mathew 27:34 in which those crucifying Jesus "offered him wine to drink, mingled with gall; but when he tasted it, he would not drink it." We do not merely "taste" into one Spirit, but drink into one Spirit. (1 Corinthians 12:13) Edited March 4, 2021 by mailmandan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaydub Posted March 14, 2021 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 184 Content Per Day: 0.14 Reputation: 133 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/23/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted March 14, 2021 Like the opening post, I question myself. because of scriptures like of the parable of the sower Matt 13:20 But he who received the seed on stony places, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; 21 yet he has no root in himself, but endures only for a while. For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles. How do we know persecution wont come in our lives? like a divorce or a death of a child, homelessness? Thats what the passage above is saying, some loose hope 22 Now he who received seed among the thorns is he who hears the word, and the cares of this world and the deceitfulness of riches choke the word, and he becomes unfruitful. This verse is more concerning, you can become unfruitful. It Does not say loose faith, walk away from Christ, it says unfruitful. These are Christians who fell back into worldly things. These 2 scriptures let us know that we can change. Tragedy may change us, winning lotto may change us. I am not saying it will, but that is what these 2 scriptures are saying to me, that it could change you. 21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’ These are Christians, We cast out demons, we did many wonders in your name, and we prophesized in your name They thought they were Christians, They called out Lord Lord To the opening post, I believe the answer is, where is our heart? We cant keep one foot in the world and one in his word, We need to live for Christ, If he is not first in our life, I think we need to examine ourselves. We are know what happens to those Luke warm, he spits them out of his mouth. The foolish virgins is another place that tells us, knowing Christ is not enough. We need to be ready Maybe the question is not can we loose our salvation, but how do we know we are ready? I think the answer to that is, if we keep him first in our life, we can be secure 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waggles Posted March 14, 2021 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,790 Content Per Day: 0.77 Reputation: 983 Days Won: 1 Joined: 12/20/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted March 14, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Josheb said: "Can you lose your salvation if you don't hold firmly?" Yes you can lose your salvation. @Jaydub I agree with you and err on the side of scripture to learn and grow and to bear much fruit. Apart from wishful reading of scriptures through rose coloured glasses - that is imposing OSAS doctrine upon scripture - the epistles written to the Pentecostal church of the first century are all about how to stay saved, with numerous exhortations and warnings on enduring in faith and righteousness. 1 hour ago, Josheb said: God is not dependent upon you in any way and the notion God has placed Himself in such a dependency is thoroughly without warrant in scripture, That may well be true BUT God has not saved robots - his salvation is for free willed and free thinking humans who must make the effort themselves to continue to love both God (for his grace and salvation) and to love other peoples (even nasty ones). In fact the letters to the seven churches clearly debunk any notions of OSAS - to the extent that a disciple can have their name blotted out from the book of life. Salvation is a lifelong commitment and a believer must endure (by their patience, not God's patience, ours) until the end. This is the law of liberty. Luke 9:62 And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God. Hebrews 10:38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him. 10:39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul. 1Tim 1:19 Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck: 1:20 Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme. Edited March 14, 2021 by Waggles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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