Walking in the Spirit

[Waggles]

Ephesians 2:10  For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

 

[Waggles]

1John 1:5  This is the message we have heard from him and proclaim to you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. 
6  If we say we have fellowship with him while we walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. 
7  But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin. 

[Waggles]

sorry, but I am on a roll with scriptures popping into my mind (from you know who)

Colossians 1:8  and has made known to us your love in the Spirit. 
9  And so, from the day we heard, we have not ceased to pray for you, asking that you may be filled with the knowledge of his will in all spiritual wisdom and understanding, 
10  so as to walk in a manner worthy of the Lord, fully pleasing to him: bearing fruit in every good work and increasing in the knowledge of God; 
11  being strengthened with all power, according to his glorious might, for all endurance and patience with joy; 

[Paul James]

2 hours ago, SwordMaster said:

 

Most of the first part of your response was confusing, but here I need to ask another question: if what you conclude here is true, then there are millions of born again Christians who have never been baptized in the Spirit, and your conclusion condemns them to never be able to walk in the Spirit. I find this very sour according the the attitude of Scripture. 

If only those who have been baptized in the Spirit can walk in the Spirit, and most Christians today have never been baptized by the Spirit, then is this not a black eye to Christ and the Spirit, who wants every Christian to walk in the Spirit? It seems so to me.

There are those who believe, in direct contradiction to what Scripture teaches, that every person is baptized in the Spirit the moment they are saved...but again, Scripture does not teach this. If Scripture did teach this, then I could see your response had some Biblical legitimacy. But Scripture doesn't, so I can't see what you suggest as Scriptural (for lack of a better way to say it).

Blessings!

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A good response!

What we need to bear in mind that Jesus said that the way to eternal life is narrow and few there be who find it.   Also, multitudes followed Jesus because they sincerely believed in Him.  But most followed Him for the available healing and the free lunches.   When he told them that His mission was to die, and that true disciples must identify with His death and resurrection - putting it into terms of eating His flesh and drinking His blood, that is, identifying with His broken body and the shedding of His blood for their sins, they told Him the saying was too hard for them and they walked away, leaving just a small group who stayed with Jesus.  This caused Jesus to ask the remainder, "Will you walk away also?"  Peter answered Him, "Where will we go?  You have the words of eternal life."

So given the fact that prosperity and guaranteed healing preachers are filling big stadiums with their false doctrinal preaching and deceptive claims of miracles, and yet a neighborhood local church with a pastor who teaches the Bible is blessed if he can retain a membership of less than 200 people, we can see how that the road of religion that leads to hypocrisy and destruction is broad, but the way to genuine Christian conversion is narrow.

Also, we know that people join a church and become members for all sorts of reasons - family, social, status; and some join because they have genuinely become converted to Christ and want to do the will of God and glorify Christ.  But all these ones exhibit the same conduct and behaviour, so that on outward appearances, we can't tell the difference, because we can't see into people's hearts.  Only God can, and the Scripture says, "The foundation of God stands sure, He knows who are His."

So, this might mean that over 80 percent of church members of all denominations, including Charismatic, might be hypocrites who were never really converted to Christ, but give the appearance of being very religious and holy.   In the face of not knowing who is genuine and who is not, we have to give everyone we fellowship with the benefit of the doubt and rely on the Judgment seat of Christ to separate the sheep from the goats

Joseph Alleine, the most successful 17th Century Puritan evangelist makes this clear in his book "An Alarm to the Unconverted", in which he teaches that just believing the gospel and joining a church may be "getting religion" but that is not enough.  The person must seek God with all his or her heart to ensure that the Holy Spirit does the work of conversion in the person's heart and spirit.   I think that this is really the baptism with the Spirit.  It may be indicated by tongues and prophecy, but the real outcome is a totally new heart and spirit, ie: conversion to Christ, or being born again.

So, I believe that those who took Alleine's teaching seriously and pressed into God for a full conversion to Christ, were actually baptised with the Spirit, but not according to modern Pentecostal or Charismatic understanding of it, ie, tongues and prophecy.  Although there have been movements happened that experienced the Charismatic gifts of the Spirit at times through Christian history, but were outlawed and brutally suppressed by the established church.

This leads me to believe that believers who do embrace Christ, wanting to do God's will, and press into to be genuinely born again, are baptised in the Spirit, even though they may not have been taught that the supernatural gifts are available to them.

The problem ones are those who teach Cessationism and make it appear that continuists are deceived by false doctrine, and even demon possessed!   I have difficulty believing that such people are truly converted to Christ.

In my experience, most genuine converts to Christ are those who receive Christ as Saviour and show a new heart and spirit right away and they continue with a passion for doing God's will for their lives.   I believe such people are baptised with the Spirit, because the baptism is not always spectacular, and the indication is usually a total change of attitude toward Christ and a new understanding of the Bible.  They are the ones who stick to Christ when problems and persecution starts to happen to them.

Usually, the hypocrites who are content with just having religion, either fall away after a year or two when they become bored with the restrictions of living a holy life, or when problems or persecution happen; or they stop testifying of Christ and settle down with being content with their three hymns and sermon on Sunday morning.  The sad thing about this is that many of these become elders and pastors and end up being false shepherds.  Often such pastors will preach a social or liberal gospel, denying the virgin birth, resurrection and miracles of Christ, making Christ appear as a good man who taught good moral principles.  Preaching then becomes a dead academic letter instead of sound gospel preaching where the voice of the Holy Spirit can speak through.   In these instances, the church has separated itself from the Holy Spirit.

 

 

[Paul James]

3 hours ago, SwordMaster said:

 

We agree so far...

 

 

Here there are some problems according to Scripture. We are told in Scripture that over 400 people were present with Jesus on one of His subsequent appearances after the resurrection, we can safely assume that most of the 120 (if not all) were so present. Along with the apostles who were officially "saved" in John 20:22, we can also safely assume that these 120, if not the entire 400, experienced the same thing. Even if all of the 120 were not saved before they received the baptism, the 11 were. The 120 were already converted and saved, which are synonymous, before Pentecost.

As for Cornelius and his household, when we pay attention to the entirety of Acts 10, we find that Cornelius was already saved because God had accepted him. The whole of chapters 9-11 have to do with the fact that the Jewish church up to this time had refused to preach the gospel to gentiles, and God had to sovereignly act in order to show the church that He also wanted gentiles too...anyone who would come to Him.

Therefore, taking all of the facts into consideration, Cornelius and his household is not a prima-facie piece of evidence that supports your suggestion. The same goes with the Samaritans - they accepted the gospel and received water baptism into Christ, therefore they were saved and had the indwelling Spirit already. The ONLY reason Peter and John went down to Samaria was to baptize them in the Holy Spirit. They were already saved according to a strict reading of Scripture.

 

Actually, you are reading into Scripture what it does not say. No where in Acts 9 is it directly, or indirectly, implied that Paul was baptized in the Spirit when he converted to Christ. Acts 9:18 states only that he arose after regaining his sight, and received water baptism into Christ. No where does it imply that he ever received baptism in the Spirit.

No then, I am not saying that he wasn't baptized with the Spirit, because I believe it is obvious by his life and words that he was. What I am saying is that Scripture does NOT tell us when he was baptized in the Spirit. And besides all this...nothing here actually addresses the question of the OP. But thanks for the input!

 

Blessings

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I don't see how anyone can be converted to Christ before the coming of the Holy Spirit on the Day of Pentecost  The Scripture says that believers are baptised into the body of Christ by the Holy Spirit.   But if the Holy Spirit was not present while Christ was still in the world, how can believers be baptised into the body of Christ if the Holy Spirit does it.  And, how could there be a body of Christ until the coming of the Holy Spirit caused it to be birthed?

Does this mean that the baptism with the Holy Spirit is the same as the Holy Spirit baptising believers into the body of Christ?  It seems that the events of the Day of Pentecostal, Cornelius' household and the Ephesian disciples show that this is what happened.

I think that the general confusion about these things is because every denomination teaches different interpretations of how the Holy Spirit is involved in the conversion and empowering of believers.   

[Willa]

Walking in the Spirit is done one step at a time, like a treasure hunt.  We obey one step and He gives us another to take.  This may be an inclination of our hearts that we know is not our flesh, like to give to the poor.  It is a principal supported by Scripture.  The next step may be to direct us to a particular group or individual that has a need.    

Having our minds on the things of God usually comes first.  We may find direction during a Bible Study or a sermon.

Walking in the Spirit usually produces fruit of the Spirit in our lives.  God lives in and through us to meet the needs of others.  He blesses our obedience with love, joy and peace.

Gal 5:16  I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.Gal 5:25  If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

[SwordMaster]

5 hours ago, Waggles said:

The question ought to be "What does Jesus consider walking in the Spirit to be?"  And here is his answer for all of us:

Galatians 5:16  But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. 
17  For the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh, for these are opposed to each other, to keep you from doing the things you want to do. 
18  But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. 
19  Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, 
20  idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, 
21  envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. 
22  But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 
23  gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. 
24  And those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 
25  If we live by the Spirit, let us also keep in step with the Spirit. 

 

Thanks for the input, Waggles. But no where in the text you provided does it tell us what "walk by the Spirit" means. Its like telling someone who doesn't know how to drive a car, to "Drive the car to the store." It just tells us to drive the car, not how to drive it.

Blessings!

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[SwordMaster]

4 hours ago, Waggles said:

Ephesians 2:10  For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

 

This is a good one...thanks!

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[SwordMaster]

4 hours ago, Waggles said:

1John 1:5  This is the message we have heard from him and proclaim to you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. 
6  If we say we have fellowship with him while we walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. 
7  But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin. 

 

Yes, yes, yes...I hadn't got that one yet. I John 1:7 is one of my favorite verses. I will have to do more research here, because while on the outside it appears that walking in the light is akin to walking in the Spirit, and I don't doubt that it does, but I need to check it out more thoroughly before making a definite determination.

Still, a GREAT passage to check out on this subject matter, thanks again!!!

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[SwordMaster]

2 hours ago, Waggles said:

sorry, but I am on a roll with scriptures popping into my mind (from you know who)

Colossians 1:8  and has made known to us your love in the Spirit. 
9  And so, from the day we heard, we have not ceased to pray for you, asking that you may be filled with the knowledge of his will in all spiritual wisdom and understanding, 
10  so as to walk in a manner worthy of the Lord, fully pleasing to him: bearing fruit in every good work and increasing in the knowledge of God; 
11  being strengthened with all power, according to his glorious might, for all endurance and patience with joy;

 

No reason to apologize, this is EXACTLY what I was looking for. 

Sometimes passages that don't address a particular subject matter by directly word (righteousness, for example) does address the subject matter in different terms, like every time in the NT that the word "law" is used, covenant is directly implied or referenced.

Again, thanks!!!

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