Are Fossils evidence of evolution ....or are the evidence of fossils

[Riverwalker]

17 hours ago, Marathoner said:

Arguing against a theory without understanding the theory in question is like walking on the branch of a tree without checking to see if the branch will bear your weight. You're 80 years behind modern research and theory, my friend. 

Two misconceptions/errors I've come across in this topic as it pertains to the modern synthetic theory of biological evolution:

The various hypotheses of abiogenesis are not part of modern evolutionary theory. Why? Because theory is supported by evidence and subjected to exhaustive peer-review --- it survives a grueling gauntlet of nullification --- whereas hypothesis is untested conjecture. Notions of abiogenesis have been around for roughly a century. Hot primordial soup, anyone? How about hot, electrified primordial soup? Conjecture. 

The field of epigenetics examines how modification of gene expression occurs in real-time without alteration of the genome. The axiom that genetic mutation is generally not beneficial holds true; genes are not required to experience mutation in order to affect incremental, substantive change in a lineage of biological organisms over vast spans of geological time. No, not when controller genes are responsible for modifying their expression. Controller genes were first discovered in 1961. 

With all of that said, the following factors influence the genome of biological organisms in this cosmos the Lord created: solar radiation... illness... diet... environmental stressors... toxic substances... and even psychological trauma. Can the end result of epigenetic modification eventually result in what appears to be genetic mutation to the modern eye? No doubt.

There's another axiom of God's creation to consider: that which is not used is reabsorbed and otherwise discontinued. Case in point: individuals who lose their teeth experience bone loss in the dental cavity. The bone is no longer needed to support dentition and so it's reabsorbed by the body.   

Modern evolutionary theory is far more nuanced than the examination of fossil evidence, my friends.  
 

 

I have found that the truth is always simple. and the lie requires excessive nuance

Evidence does not need to be parsed. It simply shows what is.  In the case of this question the ONLY thing that fossils are evidence of is Fossils.  Any mental puzzling you do after that,  is conjecture.

Just the facts.  

So it boils down to who you believe.  Men....who have spend decades trying to piece together a natural explanation using the existing facts to try and make a picture

It is like a child's dot to dot game, where you draw lines between the dots and say  " I made a bunny". Well no you did not make a bunny, you made pencil lines on a 2 dimensional  piece of paper  that has the appearance of something like a bunny. But its not alive, its not furry, its not breathing, its not a bunny.

This is the limitation of men trying to understand the things of God in our limited 3 dimensional time ruled world. And if things do not make sense to us (as if the wonderous nature of God and His creation could make sense to us) then we try and make it , make sense to us, and that is were we get:

Modern Evolutionary Theory.

It occurred for No Reason, no purpose no cause, came from nothing survived for no reason. Life spontaneous erupting from no life (again for no reason, purpose or cause)  Life becoming more and more complex (again for no reason, purpose or cause)  culminating in.  Nothing...   because it had no purpose no reason no Cause

Interesting but unproven gossamer fabrication draped over a loose and unconnected framework of dots.

But then we have what God has said

Creation

I did it. I spoke it into existence, I created the light before the sun, birds and fish before land animals and man, no not from primates, but from the dust of the ground.  I even said that Adam and Eve are we in the beginning with me. It didn't take me 6 billion years, it took me 6 days, and even that was longer than necessary, for time....that which you measure all things, was also part of my creation.

I believe God, and he doesn't have to make sense to me. 

[one.opinion]

28 minutes ago, Riverwalker said:

Modern Evolutionary Theory.

It occurred for No Reason, no purpose no cause, came from nothing survived for no reason. Life spontaneous erupting from no life (again for no reason, purpose or cause)  Life becoming more and more complex (again for no reason, purpose or cause)  culminating in.  Nothing...   because it had no purpose no reason no Cause

 

This is where those of us that accept evolution believe something far different from what you describe here.

To me, evolution is a beautiful and fantastically creative way for our wondrous and creative God to have made what we see today. God made it all, and it brings joy to my heart and a smile to my face just thinking about the amazing work of His hands.

[Sparks]

2 hours ago, Chicken coop2 said:

Amen.  Who are we to say when, how, and why God creates?

The people fooled by evolution theory say 'when, how, and why God creates,' but God already told you what He did.   He was the eye witness to creation, and He told you about it in the Bible.

In case you are not aware of it, Evolution Theory is the literal opposite of what God told you He did, even to the minor details. 

Did Adam's sin bring death into the world as the Bible tells you, or did death bring Adam into the world, as evolution would tell you?

[one.opinion]

30 minutes ago, Sparks said:

Did Adam's sin bring death into the world as the Bible tells you, or did death bring Adam into the world, as evolution would tell you?

God brought Adam into the world. We are in agreement here. Sin brought spiritual death into the world, and we agree on that, too. The Bible doesn’t make any claim about sin bring death to other organisms - only if you force Romans 5 or 1  Corinthians 15 out of context.

[Sparks]

24 minutes ago, Chicken coop2 said:

Amen. 

If death is only spiritual, why did Jesus have to physically die, and then rise again physically?  It's an example of what will happen to the saved, through Jesus.  The saved will die physically, and rise physically, through Christ.

Until your prior post, I didn't realize you believed in this false doctrine of evolution. 

[one.opinion]

7 minutes ago, Sparks said:

If death is only spiritual, why did Jesus have to physically die, and then rise again physically?

That's a good question, but there are many questions about salvation that only God can answer. If it was merely an example, it would not have been necessary. Why couldn't God have chosen another way to save humanity? He knew the outcome even before He created time. How did the death of Jesus propitiate for Adam's sin thousands of years in the past, or my sin thousands of years in the future? It is God's great mystery, I'm just thankful to be a recipient.

In any case, it is irrelevant to the Bible's teaching on death of other organisms. The Bible just plain does not say that nothing died before Adam's sin. You can make an argument and use Bible passages that you believe support it, but you cannot in good faith claim to have the definitive answer.

[Riverwalker]

10 hours ago, one.opinion said:

This is where those of us that accept evolution believe something far different from what you describe here.

To me, evolution is a beautiful and fantastically creative way for our wondrous and creative God to have made what we see today. God made it all, and it brings joy to my heart and a smile to my face just thinking about the amazing work of His hands.

But why would you believe that God would do it that way when what he told us was quite different.  Creating light three days before the sun, creating birds  before Land animals and forming man out of the dust of the earth

Why would God lie to us like that?  He had to know one day we would all find out and know him for the liar he was..... OR

He didn't lie. He did it JUST the way He said

Can you seriously prove that fossils are hard evidence for anything more than fossils? 

Edited June 7, 2021 by Riverwalker

[one.opinion]

19 minutes ago, Riverwalker said:

But why would you believe that God would do it that way when what he told us was quite different.  Creating light three days before the sun, creating birds  before Land animals and forming man out of the dust of the earth

That's a very good question, and one that I cannot answer with anything but a guess. I do not know God's ways. I have heard (or read) multiple Christian theologians suggest that the first couple of chapters of Genesis were written as epic poetry. The important thing to the original audience was to know that God created everything. That first audience was early nation of Israel, that had recently left an environment of extreme idolatry, with a huge pantheon of false gods. God was telling His people, "I know where you came from, but I am Creator, and there is none other. You are special to me."

 

24 minutes ago, Riverwalker said:

Why would God lie to us like that?

I don't see this as a lie any more than Jesus saying "I am the door" was a lie. Usually, it is a little more obvious when figurative language is being used, but I believe the timing and order is not necessarily chronological.

[Riverwalker]

11 hours ago, Chicken coop2 said:

Amen.  Who are we to say when, how, and why God creates?

God said how when and why He created

[Riverwalker]

9 minutes ago, one.opinion said:

That's a very good question, and one that I cannot answer with anything but a guess. I do not know God's ways. I have heard (or read) multiple Christian theologians suggest that the first couple of chapters of Genesis were written as epic poetry. The important thing to the original audience was to know that God created everything. That first audience was early nation of Israel, that had recently left an environment of extreme idolatry, with a huge pantheon of false gods. God was telling His people, "I know where you came from, but I am Creator, and there is none other. You are special to me."

 

I don't see this as a lie any more than Jesus saying "I am the door" was a lie. Usually, it is a little more obvious when figurative language is being used, but I believe the timing and order is not necessarily chronological.

There is nothing Analagous to creation. God did not say....approximate light he said let their be light

The ONLY way you have to start playing these games and monkeying with what God says, is if you are trying to force the man made notion  (which is both unproven, and unobserved) Into what God has said

If you start taking parts of the bible and say God didn't really mean that, you might as well throw your bible away as it is unreliable.

When Jesus said something like I am the Sheepgate, He went on to explain it. These analogies and parables was a way of expressing a spiritual concept in a way  they could under stand

There is not much explanation need for 

Genesis 2:7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being.

Made from dust, not apes

Edited June 7, 2021 by Riverwalker