THE ESSENCE OF JESUS MESSAGE

[Questioning]

I posted a question a few days ago but got it in the wrong section.   My forum title comes from something my Grandfather said when I was 8 years old, when he told me I asked more questions than any kid he had seen.  I guess I was born curious because I have always wanted to know "why", and what's over the next hill, and around the next corner.  

I notice here there are different opinions about scripture and it's interpretation, and early on I questioned why there were so many different denominations, and factions even in our church.  I finally decided that Jesus must have known he wouldn't be here for very long and must have left behind the important things we needed to know.  I found it interesting that we have nothing directly from him.  We have only what people said he said.  So I got a red letter edition of the New Testament and read the words attributed to him.  When I looked at the essence of his teaching and living, I noticed it wasn't about a bunch of rules and rituals, and the right day to worship, the way to worship, or even the proper way to be saved, etc.  It was about a different way of life, and was summed up in his answer to the question about the greatest commandment.  Which is to Love God, and neighbor as self.  A simple, profound message, that if followed would give us a different mind set about how we treat each other, and other nations.  We would simply ask, what is in the best interest of "WE", not "ME".  Is that his core message?  Have we got bogged down in other "doctrine"?

Next it came to me that in the Old Testament God gave clear instructions about what he wanted of his followers.  Books on how to do things.  Now my question.  Why didn't God do that in the New Testament??  It appears to be a collection of letters to different congregations about different things going on at that time.  And if God wanted to give a clear, easy to understand message, why have 4 gospels with different emphasis?  Why didn't he give us a clear, easy to understand set of instructions?  It certainly would have saved a lot of arguing over what it all means.

Edited February 11, 2021 by Questioning

[Riverwalker]

The Gospels were written to different audiences with different perspecitives

 

Matthew wrote to the Jews, so there is a lot more emphasis On the Law

Mark to the Roman, almost no references to the law. short sweet and to the point

Luke to the intellectual "Greek"  and it is full of detail and probably the most complete TELLING of the Story of Christ

John was written the Christian Perspective and the bulk of it covers the last week.

As to the epistles, they were purpose written, and dealt with issues, we all deal with. They are not culture specific. But rather focus on the truth of God, in that culture

The bottom line is if there is a variance in our understanding of scripture, it is not God's Fault, it is ours

Its all there for us to see, if we approach it as it is, without an agenda or preconceived and accepting without exception as the inerrant Word of God.

 

Our relationship with God is extremely personal and Christianity is not about being good, or getting along. It is about following Christ. 

Edited February 11, 2021 by Riverwalker

[Michael37]

2 hours ago, Questioning said:

Next it came to me that in the Old Testament God gave clear instructions about what he wanted of his followers.  Books on how to do things.  Now my question.  Why didn't God do that in the New Testament??  It appears to be a collection of letters to different congregations about different things going on at that time.  And if God wanted to give a clear, easy to understand message, why have 4 gospels with different emphasis?  Why didn't he give us a clear, easy to understand set of instructions?  It certainly would have saved a lot of arguing over what it all means.

The Pharisees in Jesus' day considered their meticulous observance of OT Law made them more righteous than and superior to everyone else. Jesus called them hypocrites, serpents, vipers, whited sepulchers, fools and blind guides. 

Jesus led by example and didn't leave any personally written record of His teachings because He is the Word of God Himself. It makes sense that spreading the Good News of Jesus Christ is delegated to His disciples.

I pray that your heart and mind will be illuminated by the Word of God so that the things in Scripture that do not seem clear to you will be clarified. 

[R. Hartono]

2 hours ago, Questioning said:

I posted a question a few days ago but got it in the wrong section.   My forum title comes from something my Grandfather said when I was 8 years old, when he told me I asked more questions than any kid he had seen.  I guess I was born curious because I have always wanted to know "why", and what's over the next hill, and around the next corner.  

I notice here there are different opinions about scripture and it's interpretation, and early on I questioned why there were so many different denominations, and factions even in our church.  I finally decided that Jesus must have known he wouldn't be here for very long and must have left behind the important things we needed to know.  I found it interesting that we have nothing directly from him.  We have only what people said he said.  So I got a red letter edition of the New Testament and read the words attributed to him.  When I looked at the essence of his teaching and living, I noticed it wasn't about a bunch of rules and rituals, and the right day to worship, the way to worship, or even the proper way to be saved, etc.  It was about a different way of life, and was summed up in his answer to the question about the greatest commandment.  Which is to Love God, and neighbor as self.  A simple, profound message, that if followed would give us a different mind set about how we treat each other, and other nations.  We would simply ask, what is in the best interest of "WE", not "ME".  Is that his core message?  Have we got bogged down in other "doctrine"?

Next it came to me that in the Old Testament God gave clear instructions about what he wanted of his followers.  Books on how to do things.  Now my question.  Why didn't God do that in the New Testament??  It appears to be a collection of letters to different congregations about different things going on at that time.  And if God wanted to give a clear, easy to understand message, why have 4 gospels with different emphasis?  Why didn't he give us a clear, easy to understand set of instructions?  It certainly would have saved a lot of arguing over what it all means.

The essence is love others as u love urself.

Edited February 11, 2021 by R. Hartono

[Tristen]

Hi Q,

You cover quite a lot of ground in this post.

“I notice here there are different opinions about scripture and it's interpretation, and early on I questioned why there were so many different denominations, and factions even in our church”

I think you may be seeking a simple answer for a complex issue.

All legitimate Christian denominations agree on the fundamental doctrines of the Christian faith (e.g. the Divine Authority of Scripture, the Eternal Deity of Christ, the Virgin Birth of Christ, the Vicarious Sacrifice of Christ, the Bodily Resurrection of Christ etc). These are the doctrines that define Christianity, and distinguish Christianity from other beliefs.

Whilst there are some rifts between Christian denominations, the disunity is often exaggerated outside of the church. Almost all Christian denominations consider other Christian denominations to be equally Christian. Some of these denominations are indistinguishable from each other – only that they were seeded by different organisations. Some have a different ministry focus (e.g. missions, or evangelism, or teaching, etc.). Some have a different service format and thereby appeal to different kinds of people. And some really are based on (usually minor or non-essential) doctrinal differences of opinions.

From my experience, the doctrinal differences within a denomination are usually more varied than those between denominations. That's a problem with the human side of the interpretation process, not the Bible side. A premise of scripture is that humans are inherently corrupted; i.e. we each have biases and agendas that influence how we approach scripture. There is also a difference between how much effort different Christians put into Bible study – such that some are more familiar with scripture than others. There is also the fact that only God has all the information. We perform different roles in “the body of Christ”, and are therefore led by the Holy Spirit to focus on the information we need to perform that role, and are therefore better acquainted with some topics more than others.

So there is no belief or rule of logic stating that all Christians must agree on everything.

 

“I finally decided that Jesus must have known he wouldn't be here for very long and must have left behind the important things we needed to know”

The Bible is the Word of God. It has everything we need to guide us into our God-ordained purpose.

 

“I found it interesting that we have nothing directly from him. … So I got a red letter edition of the New Testament and read the words attributed to him”

All of the Bible is equally the Word of God. If Jesus had personally penned scriptures, many would would be tempted to falsely venerate those verses over the rest of the Bible. Even-now some errantly attribute more authority to Jesus' words than to the rest of scripture.

 

“When I looked at the essence of his teaching and living, I noticed it wasn't about a bunch of rules and rituals, and the right day to worship, the way to worship, or even the proper way to be saved, etc.”

This is an astute observation. Though I would say the Apostle Paul speaks more to this than Jesus in the Gospels (see especially Galatians, Romans and Hebrews).

The Old Testament contains a covenant between God and the nation of Israel (sometime called the Law, or Mosaic Law). As the name suggests, this was a covenant of laws (or “rules”) - and focussed on outward observance. The main purpose of the Law is to expose human depravity, and our utter inability to live up to God's Holy expectations – and thereby our need for a Saviour.

Christians relate to God through a different covenant; i.e. a covenant of grace, not law. That means our righteousness comes exclusively through Jesus – and not-at-all by our own efforts. So there is no written list of rules in the Christian covenant – because we've already shown that we can not meet that standard on our own. Instead, Jesus paid the price that was due our sin (so that we are legally perfected before God by His sacrifice), and we are given the Holy Spirit to change us from the inside, out.

Galatians 5:22-23 - But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.

Notice that this is not a specific list of rules to obey in particular circumstances, but rather describes a state of the inner heart that grows and ultimately influences our outward behaviour.

 

“A simple, profound message, that if followed would give us a different mind set about how we treat each other, and other nations. We would simply ask, what is in the best interest of "WE", not "ME". Is that his core message? ”

I would suggest that is an important secondary “message”. The primary “message” of scripture can be summarised as follows;

John 3:16 - For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life

I would also rephrase the “message” to; 'We should be seeking the “best interest” of others (not “WE”) - even at the cost to self'. That is the definition of Biblical love (Gk. agape). That is, in the same way that Jesus (our example) was prepared to sacrifice Himself for us.

 

“Have we got bogged down in other "doctrine"?”

I suppose some might – though you'd have to be more specific. We are heavily admonished to study scripture. Perhaps some people take what they learn to an unhealthy, unbalanced extreme. But the Bible is also what is needed to correct such errors.

 

“Next it came to me that in the Old Testament God gave clear instructions about what he wanted of his followers. Books on how to do things. Now my question. Why didn't God do that in the New Testament??”

Adding to what I've already said on this above – God is interested in the spirit of a matter, rather than a base outward observance to a rule. We should be assessing circumstances by the direct influence of God's morality through His indwelling Spirit, rather than simply obeying a rule because it is written down somewhere.

In 1 Corinthians 3 we are told that “the letter kills”, is a “ministry of death”, and a “ministry of condemnation”.

The Law exposes our sin and thereby holds us under condemnation, “but the Spirit gives life” (1 Corinthians 3:6). Jesus said;

John 10:10 - I have come that they may have life, and that they may have it more abundantly

 

“if God wanted to give a clear, easy to understand message, why have 4 gospels with different emphasis? Why didn't he give us a clear, easy to understand set of instructions? It certainly would have saved a lot of arguing over what it all means”

I think you might be exaggerating the level of overall discord in the church. Most Christians agree on most things. But life and circumstance are varied, and humans are inherently corrupted, and have different backgrounds, and are at different stages of their walk with God.

Nevertheless, you will struggle to find any Christian who disagrees with what you have found - i.e. Love God and love people. Build on that foundation and you'll be sure to do well.

 

 

[Questioning]

9 hours ago, Tristen said:

 

Nevertheless, you will struggle to find any Christian who disagrees with what you have found - i.e. Love God and love people. Build on that foundation and you'll be sure to do well.

 

That's what I decided, but was in the Church of Christ where they basically had set up a strict set of rules and rituals you had to go by to gain salvation.  I got branded as liberal and almost totally ignored.

[Questioning]

9 hours ago, Tristen said:

 

I would suggest that is an important secondary “message”. The primary “message” of scripture can be summarised as follows;

John 3:16 - For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life

I would also rephrase the “message” to; 'We should be seeking the “best interest” of others (not “WE”) - even at the cost to self'. That is the definition of Biblical love (Gk. agape). That is, in the same way that Jesus (our example) was prepared to sacrifice Himself for us.

 

But that was Jesus answer to the question of what is the greatest commandment.  How could it be an important secondary message?

The words are to love neighbor "as self".  I take that to mean we should love neighbor the same as self.  We have equal importance.

[Questioning]

10 hours ago, Michael37 said:

 

Jesus led by example and didn't leave any personally written record of His teachings because He is the Word of God Himself. It makes sense that spreading the Good News of Jesus Christ is delegated to His disciples.

 

I guess what makes sense is different for different people.

[Logostician]

Where you are seeing differences between Christians in terms of denominations and scriptural interpretations, I am seeing unity in Jesus Christ.  We live in a world that is deeply divided.  It's hard to find agreement on anything.  And agreeing in a go along to get along fashion in this world doesn't work either.  The focus of the unity is the key.  Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life.  I'm going to follow him even as the world increasingly hardens hearts against him.

For me it's simple.  Jesus plus nothing.  I have been in many churches, and met many brothers and sisters there.  Most of them were denominational.  But it didn't matter.  We were united in Christ.  I have always felt welcome.  These are the people I will be sharing eternity with, and millions more, because we have the one thing we need, Jesus.

The Old Testament and the New Testament are not so much different as they are progressions in God's eternal plan.  The OT reveals God and his will.  The NT tells us that Jesus is the only way to fulfill the will of God.  God doesn't change.  His plan was always to lead us by the hand back to him.  Everything in the Bible points to Jesus.  What could more unifying?

[Michael37]

5 hours ago, Questioning said:

I guess what makes sense is different for different people.

Yes. The Bible says as much.

Mat 11:25  At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.

2Co 4:3-5  But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:  (4)  In whom the god of this world has blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.  (5)  For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake.

2Co 2:15-16  For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish:  (16)  To the one we are the savour of death unto death; and to the other the savour of life unto life. And who is sufficient for these things?
 

Quote from Matthew Henry on 2 Co 2:15-16

1. The different success of the gospel, and its different effects upon several sorts of persons to whom it is preached. The success is different; for some are saved by it, while others perish under it. Nor is this to be wondered at, considering the different effects the gospel has. For,

(1.) Unto some it is a savour of death unto death. Those who are willingly ignorant, and wilfully obstinate, disrelish the gospel, as men dislike an ill savour, and therefore they are blinded and hardened by it: it stirs up their corruptions, and exasperates their spirits. They reject the gospel, to their ruin, even to spiritual and eternal death.

(2.) Unto others the gospel is a savour of life unto life. To humble and gracious souls the preaching of the word is most delightful and profitable. As it is sweeter than honey to the taste, so it is more grateful than the most precious odours to the senses, and much more profitable; for as it quickened them at first, when they were dead in trespasses and sins, so it makes them more lively, and will end in eternal life.