Believers and non believers; what's the difference?

[luigi]

There are two types of people; those who believe IN God and His Christ, and those who do not believe in God and His Christ. Within these two groups, however, are those who believe themselves to be believers in God and His Christ, who in fact do not believe, to whom Christ will profess never having known them (Matthew 7:23); and there are those who do not believe themselves believers in God and His Christ, to whom Christ will award the kingdom of heaven (Matthew 25:34). So what is the difference between these two latter groups of individuals? The difference is in the interpretation of what it means to believe IN God and His Christ. To one individual to believe in God and His Christ means only to believe that God exists and that Jesus is Gods son. Even the devils are aware of this type of believing in God and His Christ (James 2:19), and it does them no good, because they do not believe IN God and IN His Christ. The 2nd of the two latter groups of individuals in Matthew 25:33-40, whom the Lord refers to as His sheep, who did not recognize their faith IN God and His Christ, the Lord explains their faith IN Him through their actions in Matthew 25:35-40. These individuals believed IN loving their neighbor, and thus believed IN God who is love (1 John 4:7-8 & 16), and IN His Christ.
Within the body of Christ today, are both the wheat and the weeds. The weeds are they in Matthew 7:23 whose faith in God and His Christ is superficial and made. These weeds are they, who as the Lord commences to shake the earth, will be shaken out from those who truly believe IN God and His Christ, so that the wheat may remain (Hebrews 12:26-27).
So, if we honestly love God, His Christ, and our neighbor, we then truly believe IN God and His Christ.

[johnthebaptist]

10 minutes ago, luigi said:

There are two types of people; those who believe IN God and His Christ, and those who do not believe in God and His Christ. Within these two groups, however, are those who believe themselves to be believers in God and His Christ, who in fact do not believe, to whom Christ will profess never having known them (Matthew 7:23); and there are those who do not believe themselves believers in God and His Christ, to whom Christ will award the kingdom of heaven (Matthew 25:34). So what is the difference between these two latter groups of individuals? The difference is in the interpretation of what it means to believe IN God and His Christ. To one individual to believe in God and His Christ means only to believe that God exists and that Jesus is Gods son. Even the devils are aware of this type of believing in God and His Christ (James 2:19), and it does them no good, because they do not believe IN God and IN His Christ. The 2nd of the two latter groups of individuals in Matthew 25:33-40, whom the Lord refers to as His sheep, who did not recognize their faith IN God and His Christ, the Lord explains their faith IN Him through their actions in Matthew 25:35-40. These individuals believed IN loving their neighbor, and thus believed IN God who is love (1 John 4:7-8 & 16), and IN His Christ.
Within the body of Christ today, are both the wheat and the weeds. The weeds are they in Matthew 7:23 whose faith in God and His Christ is superficial and made. These weeds are they, who as the Lord commences to shake the earth, will be shaken out from those who truly believe IN God and His Christ, so that the wheat may remain (Hebrews 12:26-27).
So, if we honestly love God, His Christ, and our neighbor, we then truly believe IN God and His Christ.

I think you are leaving something out. The first, and great commandment, you might remember, is to love the Lord with all our heart, mind, and soul (Matthew 22:34-40). You say one group does not believe in God, but they love their neighbors as themselves. I think, though, they need to learn to love the Lord with all their hearts, minds, and souls.

[luigi]

20 minutes ago, johnthebaptist said:

I think you are leaving something out. The first, and great commandment, you might remember, is to love the Lord with all our heart, mind, and soul (Matthew 22:34-40). You say one group does not believe in God, but they love their neighbors as themselves. I think, though, they need to learn to love the Lord with all their hearts, minds, and souls.

The group in Matthew 25:33-40 did not recognize their loving others as themselves, representing their believing IN God and His Christ. Whether any in this group learned to love the Lord (who is love) with all their hearts, minds, and souls, is not made explicitly clear, but they still had enough love/God for their neighbor that the Lord knows them as His sheep, and awards them the kingdom of heaven. I would therefore want to be someone in this latter group who does not recognize my loving my neighbor as myself actually  representing my believing IN God and His Christ, than those in first group in Matthew 7 who only believed in God and His Christ in a superficial sense (as do the devils), to whom Christ/Love will declare never having known them. Another way to say this is that this group in Matthew 7:23 never knew Love/Christ.

Edited February 14, 2021 by luigi

[johnthebaptist]

7 minutes ago, luigi said:

The group in Matthew 25:33-40 did not recognize their loving others as themselves, representing their believing IN God and His Christ. Whether any in this group learned to love the Lord (who is love) with all their hearts, minds, and souls, is not made explicitly clear, but they still had enough love/God for their neighbor that the Lord knows them as His sheep, and awards them the kingdom of heaven. I would therefore want to be someone in this latter group who does not recognize my loving my neighbor as myself actually  representing my believing IN God and His Christ, than those in first group in Matthew 7 who only believed in God and His Christ in a superficial sense (as do the devils), to whom Christ/Love will declare never having known them.

Until you obey the great and first commandment - loving the Lord with all your heart, mind, and soul - you are only partway there, I believe.

[luigi]

7 minutes ago, johnthebaptist said:

Until you obey the great and first commandment - loving the Lord with all your heart, mind, and soul - you are only partway there, I believe.

We all are currently only part way there in loving the Lord with our whole hearts, minds and souls. If anyone of us were fully believing in Love/God, we would then be doing the same works and greater miracles/works as those of the Lord (John 14:12).

[johnthebaptist]

23 minutes ago, luigi said:

We all are currently only part way there in loving the Lord with our whole hearts, minds and souls. If anyone of us were fully believing in Love/God, we would then be doing the same works and greater miracles/works as those of the Lord (John 14:12).

I think Paul's teaching was good: Pray constantly (1 Thessalonians 5:17).

[luigi]

2 minutes ago, johnthebaptist said:

I think Paul's teaching was good: Pray constantly (1 Thessalonians 5:17).

In Spirit, Agreed.

[luigi]

56 minutes ago, Josheb said:

I would say the the two groups within those who say they believe "in" God can be divided by those who believe God and those who do not. Leave out the word "in". 

I am reminded of the beginning of Luke 4 wherein Jesus reads from Isaiah 61 and tells those in attendance that the prophesy of Isaiah from which he had just read had in that very moment become fulfilled.  Luke tells us the audience found Jesus' teaching gracious but Luke does not provide a record of the actual "sermon" Jesus preached that day. The Jewish believers IN God apparently did not believe Jesus' words so they could not and did not believe IN Jesus. And we find this dynamic between "believing" and "believing in" running throughout the gospels. 

Muslims believe he was a prophet, but not God. Hindus believe he was one of many gods but not the one true God who is above all others. Those who do not believe in any gods may still believe he was a good moral teacher but C. S. Lewis (I believe it is in "Mere Christianity") once addressed the idea "Jesus is a good moral teacher" by saying something to the effect of, if Jesus' teaching are taken literally then he is either a lunatic who says, "I am a poached egg," or he not just a good moral teacher; he is God incarnate. Many believe in Jesus but they do not believe him. If we do not believe what Jesus said then we do not actually believe in him, his name, or his work(s).

 

 

This is why the question "Do you believer him?" is a much better question than "Do you believe in him?"  

Josheb, When we say we believe in a certain politician, we are not saying that we believe that individual is a politician, as it is a given. What we are saying is that we believe in what that certain politician's views are. Likewise, when someone says they believe IN Christ, it should be understood that the individual believes in what the Lord professed and believed.

This is the difference between those who believe IN Love/God, and those who do not. The sheep who believe IN Love in Matthew 25:33-40, include people from all faiths and non faiths who actually believe IN God and His Christ, even if they have never heard of Jesus. Look at the example of the Samaritan in Luke 10, who supposedly never having heard of Christ, loved his neighbor, and therefore knew love/God. In contrast, look at the example of the priest and rabbi who supposedly believed in God, who in fact did not love their neighbor, and therefore did really not love God, who is love.

 

Edited February 14, 2021 by luigi

[missmuffet]

4 hours ago, luigi said:

There are two types of people; those who believe IN God and His Christ, and those who do not believe in God and His Christ. Within these two groups, however, are those who believe themselves to be believers in God and His Christ, who in fact do not believe, to whom Christ will profess never having known them (Matthew 7:23); and there are those who do not believe themselves believers in God and His Christ, to whom Christ will award the kingdom of heaven (Matthew 25:34). So what is the difference between these two latter groups of individuals? The difference is in the interpretation of what it means to believe IN God and His Christ. To one individual to believe in God and His Christ means only to believe that God exists and that Jesus is Gods son. Even the devils are aware of this type of believing in God and His Christ (James 2:19), and it does them no good, because they do not believe IN God and IN His Christ. The 2nd of the two latter groups of individuals in Matthew 25:33-40, whom the Lord refers to as His sheep, who did not recognize their faith IN God and His Christ, the Lord explains their faith IN Him through their actions in Matthew 25:35-40. These individuals believed IN loving their neighbor, and thus believed IN God who is love (1 John 4:7-8 & 16), and IN His Christ.
Within the body of Christ today, are both the wheat and the weeds. The weeds are they in Matthew 7:23 whose faith in God and His Christ is superficial and made. These weeds are they, who as the Lord commences to shake the earth, will be shaken out from those who truly believe IN God and His Christ, so that the wheat may remain (Hebrews 12:26-27).
So, if we honestly love God, His Christ, and our neighbor, we then truly believe IN God and His Christ.

The believers have eternal life and will spend eternity in heaven. The unbelievers will spend eternity in hell. 

[luigi]

42 minutes ago, missmuffet said:

The believers have eternal life and will spend eternity in heaven. The unbelievers will spend eternity in hell. 

Yes, true believers IN God who is love, have eternal life.