Believers and non believers; what's the difference?

[luigi]

17 hours ago, Josheb said:

 

 

Hmmmmm....... 

Guys (and gals ), who is it that defines "Christian"? Christians or non-Christians? God, or non-Christians? Can you not see how subtle the influence of the world is on us when we can persuaded to think and say the word "Christian" has lost its significance? 

No, the word has not lost its significance and anyone who encounters any of us can and should realize that simply from the interaction. This is one of the fundamental differences between believers and non-believers.

The tares mixed in with the wheat have distorted the Word to mean many things today. It is because of such, why the Lord is now shaking the earth, in order to shake out the tares from the wheat. Hebrews 12:26-27

[luigi]

17 hours ago, missmuffet said:

Revelation 3:16

So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of My mouth.

I am not sure that the individuals in Matthew 7:23 can be considered lukewarm Christians, as the Lord declares never having known them. If the Lord who is love (as God is love), never knew these individuals, then it is the same as saying these individuals never knew love/God. And if they never knew love for God or their fellow man, they then were never true Christians, despite all the works they did, and professing the Lords name.

[luigi]

14 minutes ago, Josheb said:

The only word we're currently discussing is the word, "Christian," and specifically in the context of the claim the word has lost significance. 

The word Christian has lost much of its significance due to all the distortions false teachers (tares) have emphasized, and emphasize today.

First century Christianity looked a lot different than what Christianity is today.

Edited February 15, 2021 by luigi

[missmuffet]

4 hours ago, luigi said:

I am not sure that the individuals in Matthew 7:23 can be considered lukewarm Christians, as the Lord declares never having known them. If the Lord who is love (as God is love), never knew these individuals, then it is the same as saying these individuals never knew love/God. And if they never knew love for God or their fellow man, they then were never true Christians, despite all the works they did, and professing the Lords name.

If they never knew the Lord then they would be cold not luke warm.

[Riverwalker]

3 hours ago, Josheb said:

None of which happens with insignificant words. 

Is the truth ever insignificant?

[luigi]

1 hour ago, missmuffet said:

If they never knew the Lord then they would be cold not luke warm.

Agreed. If they never knew love, they would then be spiritually cold.

[luigi]

10 hours ago, Josheb said:

I disagree and you are not dealing with what I actually said. You're repeating yourself. Please stop. Engage what I said. Do it cogently and op-relevantly. 

Yes, it did. So what? You're not suggesting we go back to meeting in small groups with no shared organization around the globe are you? Then stop making false-cause arguments that ares utterly fallacious and....... non-Christian and ungodly. In the first century Christians were persecuted wherever they met. Maybe you'd like to go back to the first century days of Nero were Christians were sodomized and beaten to death, or forced into gladiatorial games and either their corpses or their living bodies covered in pitch and lit afire as street lights. Do you have any idea how ill-informed that statement is???? Christianity now covers the globe! That is significant! Christianity has victoriously assimilated every single competing worldview it has encountered and it will continue to do so when ideas like the one just stated are repudiated. Blaming false teachers is just as irrational. The reason there can be false teachers is because the truth exists. 

The word "Christian" has not lost its significance. It may be losing influence but 1) that is not the same as significance and 2) if that's true then it is because of misguided comparisons with the first century. Non-believers do not define who we are or what we do. The word "Christian" has its significance in  the truth and as Riverwalker has astutely implied the truth is never insignificant. 

luigi, do you live in the continental US? If so I'd like to send you a book. I'll pay for the book and its delivery if you'll promise to read it from cover to cover. The book is Francis Schaeffer's trilogy. Schaeffer addressed the failure and neglect of Christians to show up in the market place of ideas even though we and we alone have the truth of the gospel. We ceded terrain to postmodernism through our own neglect and now we find ourselves living in a post-postmodern world where Christianity has many competitors but it has not lost its significance. Nor its power. 

 

You've bought into a false teaching!

 

And if you repeat that tired and incorrect nonsense again without engaging what I posted I'll ignore it. 

Christians in the first century for the most part believed in loving their brothers and providing for their basic needs. We do not do this today.

[Peterlag]

On 2/14/2021 at 9:17 AM, luigi said:

There are two types of people; those who believe IN God and His Christ, and those who do not believe in God and His Christ. Within these two groups, however, are those who believe themselves to be believers in God and His Christ, who in fact do not believe, to whom Christ will profess never having known them (Matthew 7:23); and there are those who do not believe themselves believers in God and His Christ, to whom Christ will award the kingdom of heaven (Matthew 25:34). So what is the difference between these two latter groups of individuals? The difference is in the interpretation of what it means to believe IN God and His Christ. To one individual to believe in God and His Christ means only to believe that God exists and that Jesus is Gods son. Even the devils are aware of this type of believing in God and His Christ (James 2:19), and it does them no good, because they do not believe IN God and IN His Christ. The 2nd of the two latter groups of individuals in Matthew 25:33-40, whom the Lord refers to as His sheep, who did not recognize their faith IN God and His Christ, the Lord explains their faith IN Him through their actions in Matthew 25:35-40. These individuals believed IN loving their neighbor, and thus believed IN God who is love (1 John 4:7-8 & 16), and IN His Christ.
Within the body of Christ today, are both the wheat and the weeds. The weeds are they in Matthew 7:23 whose faith in God and His Christ is superficial and made. These weeds are they, who as the Lord commences to shake the earth, will be shaken out from those who truly believe IN God and His Christ, so that the wheat may remain (Hebrews 12:26-27).
So, if we honestly love God, His Christ, and our neighbor, we then truly believe IN God and His Christ.

The word "in" that you are using in places like 1 John 4:16 does not mean to believe in something. The Greek is being or remaining within, with the primary idea of rest in any  place or thing.

[Riverwalker]

13 minutes ago, Peterlag said:

The word "in" that you are using in places like 1 John 4:16 does not mean to believe in something. The Greek is being or remaining within, with the primary idea of rest in any  place or thing.

So its positional not conditional. Great but what does that change if anything

[Riverwalker]

2 hours ago, luigi said:

Christians in the first century for the most part believed in loving their brothers and providing for their basic needs. We do not do this today.

That is incorrect.  They tried "socialism" and it failed, as it has failed in every society from Pilgrims on

Leading Paul to write :

2 Thess 3:10For even when we were with you, we commanded you this: If anyone will not work, neither shall he eat.