Dispensationalism

[InfoCentral]

If dispensationalism theology started in the 1820's then what did people and the church believe in before this time?

Dispensationalism

[Trinity]

Well this has trouble all witten all over it... don't we already have about 10 of these threads still active floating around worthy already???

[Leonard]

Yes, at LEAST 10......

Prior to dispensationalism, the whole Church believed God never changed: Jesus Christ the same yesterday, today, and forever.

[Remnantrob]

If dispensationalism theology started in the 1820's then what did people and the church believe in before this time?

TRUTH

[halifaxchristian]

Dispensationalism may be a "term" thought up in 18...whenever, but the idea itself has been around since adam and eve. God doesn't change, but His methods of interaction do. Excuse my perhaps poor expression of thought here, but I think you all understand what I'm trying to say. First there was perfection, then sin, then no Law, then Law, then Saviour...etc. God didn't change, but His dealings did. God bless.

[Work in Progress]

If dispensationalism theology started in the 1820's then what did people and the church believe in before this time?

TRUTH

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

LOL!

Remnantrob, are SDA's reformed? Covenant Theology believers? (Please excuse the ignorance - I have one friend who is SDA, a dear believer of our Lord, and she has explained her beliefs, but I'm ignorant of SDA belief in general.)

[InfoCentral]

You will have to excuse my ignorance. I registered for a Certification course in the Scofield Reference Bible thru Moody Bible Institute. Awaiting arrival of my course materials and my Scofield Reference Bible III, Reader Edition thru Amazon.com, I decided it would be a good idea to read up on exactly what the Scofield Study plan was. In seeking research on this topic I found nothing explaining what the Scofield study plan consisted of or how it differed from other study plans but what I did find was a term - "dispensationalism."

Well, at least this was a starting point in my education. In looking up this topic I found that while it is widely accepted it only began as a theology in the 1820's. Being an educated person my first question came to mind was what do everyone believe in before this? What was the accepted theology before dispensationalism? So where else to go for quick answers but to Worthy Boards!

[Guest eponine]

Info,

I am glad you asked the question, and I'm sure you will get all kinds of quick and very opinionated answers here at worthy boards. Some are convinced that dispensationalism is true and all the NT writers really believed it, they just didn't use the same terms we do. Then you will have those from a more reformed perspective (like me) who believe that the promises God made in the OT and Paul's writings (and of course the rest of the Bible ) all prove their side. You do need to study each side's Biblical reasons and decide for yourself. If someone makes a strong statement to you claiming that their way is absolutely true, please do not believe them until you check it with the Bible.

So, to summarize the differences (which is nearly impossible), I think it comes down to how you see Israel and the church. A dispensationalist would probably say that God has 2 programs He is working with in history. That is, He saves 2 distinct kinds of people. One is Israel (those who are physical descendants of Abraham). They were His people in the OT, then they rejected their messiah and God set them aside for a time. Now He is working with His second program, the church. Anyone of any descent (even Jewish) can be saved. One day, He will rapture the Christians, work again with Israelites during the tribulation, and then come to rule.

To be quick, the reformed perspective is that God has one people through all of history. You can call it the elect, the church, or whatever, but it is all the people who are saved - God's People. So, in the OT, they were mostly Jews because God chose that nation specifically. But after Christ came, He sent the Gospel to all peoples. All nations can join the group that believes on Christ, follows God, and will be with Him forever. Reformed believers usually do not believe in a rapture before the tribulation, and often not in a 1000 year reign of Christ that is separate from eternity.

If anyone, disp. or Ref. wants to clarify or correct my summary of your position, please do so. I know I don't understand everything about the issue. I just hope we can keep this simple for people who just want to know the main differences, not necessarily every detail about each side.

Hope that helps a little!

[sail2awe]

Col 1:25 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfill the word of God.

God chose an earthen vessel by which He would fulfill (Greek pleroo, "complete") the Word of God. That's what Paul did - with the revelation of the mystery [secret] given to him, God had nothing more to say.

Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

2Ti 2:15

To cut straight, as paths; to hold a straight course; generally, to make straight; to handle rightly the Word of God, by acknowledging Him to direct the paths

In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths. Pro 3:6

THE PROPHETIC PROGRAM: God's purpose to establish a literal, physical, earthly, Davidic, Messianic kingdom, with Jesus Christ as the king of kings, ruling over the twelve apostles, who will rule over the twelve tribes of Israel, who will rule over the nations of this earth.

THE MYSTERY PROGRAM: God's purpose to form a spiritual body of believers called "the Body of Christ", with Christ as the Head. This body will be perfectly "conformed to the image of His Son" and will rule and reign with Christ in the heavenly places.

Eph 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

Eph 3:10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,

PROPHETIC

SPOKEN about since the world began

(Luke 1:68-70; Acts 3:21-24)

MYSTERY

Kept SECRET, hidden since the world began

(Romans 16:25; Ephesians 3:5,9; Colossians 1:26)

PROPHETIC

Focus is THE EARTH

(Genesis 1:28, 9:1, 13:14-17; Deuteronomy 11:21; Isaiah 11:9; Jeremiah 23:5; Psalms 37:9-11; Matthew 5:5; Matthew 6:10)

MYSTERY

Focus is THE HEAVENLY PLACES

(Ephesians 1:3, 2:6; Philippians 3:20; Colossians 3:1-4)

PROPHETIC

Jesus Christ is THE KING of Israel and the whole world

(Isaiah 9:6-7; Daniel 7:13-14; Zachariah14:9, 16; Matthew 2:2; John 1:49; Luke 1:31-33)

MYSTERY

Jesus Christ is THE HEAD of the church, the body of Christ

(Ephesians 1:22-23; Colossians 1:18)

PROPHETIC

ISRAEL is God's chosen nation and will be given supremacy over all nations

(Deuteronomy 7:6, 28:13; Isaiah 6:1-5; Matthew 10:5-10;

Romans 9:6)

MYSTERY

In the Body of Christ, there is neither Jew nor Gentile (Romans 10:12, 3:22; Galatians 3:26-28; 1Corinthians 12:13; Ephesians 2:16-17)

PROPHETIC

Redeemed Israel to rule and reign with Christ on the earth

(Isaiah 62:1-4; Ezekiel 37:21-28; Exodus 19:4-6; Revelation 5:10)

MYSTERY

The Body of Christ to rule and reign with Christ in the heavenlies

(Ephesians 2:6, 14-16, 3:6, Philippians 3:20; 1Corinthians 6:3)

PROPHETIC

Gentiles to be blessed through Israel's RISE to kingdom glory

(Genesis 12:1-3; Isaiah 61:6-9; Zechariah 8:13-23)

MYSTERY

Gentiles blessed through THE FALL of Israel

(Romans 11:11,12,15; Acts 28:27-28)

PROPHETIC

The central gospel is the Gospel of the Kingdom

(Matthew 3:2, 4:17,23, 9:35, 24:14)

MYSTERY

The central gospel is the gospel of the Grace of God

(Acts 20:24; Romans 1:16-17, 3:23-25; Ephesians 2:5, 8-9)

PROPHETIC

The chief Apostle is Peter

(Matthew 16:18-19; Acts 1:15, 2:14)

MYSTERY

Paul is the Apostle for this age of grace

(Romans 11:13; Ephesians 3:1; 1Timothy 2:5-7)

PROPHETIC

The number 12 is associated with Israel

(Matthew 19:28; Revelation 7:4-8)

MYSTERY

ONE is the number for the Body of Christ

(Ephesians 4:3-4)

PROPHETIC

Physical and spiritual baptism

(Exodus 29:1-7; Matthew 3:2-7, 28:19-20; Mark 16:16; Acts 2:32; Ezekiel 36:25-27; Matthew 3:11; Acts 1:5,8)

MYSTERY

Spiritual baptism only

(Romans 6:1-5; Ephesians 4:4; 1Corinthians 12:13;

Galatians 3:26-28)

PROPHETIC

Physical and spiritual circumcision

(Genesis 17:9-14; Luke 2:21; Deuteronomy 30:6)

MYSTERY

Spiritual circumcision only

(Colossians 2:11-13; Romans 6:1-6)

PROPHETIC

Atonement yet FUTURE

(Acts 3:19; Matthew 25:31-34; Romans 11:25-27)

MYSTERY

Atonement NOW

(Romans 5:11; Colossians 2:13-14)

PROPHETIC

The Goal: The God of Heaven to set up the Kingdom of Heaven on earth, Christ to have preeminence

(Deuteronomy 11:21; Daniel 2:44; Matthew 25:34)

MYSTERY

The Goal: To form a spiritual body of believers perfectly conformed to the image of Christ and through whom Christ will have the preeminence in the heavenly places

(Romans 8:29; Colossians 1:16)

PROPHETIC

This has been God's purpose FROM the foundation of the world

(Matthew 25:34)

MYSTERY

This has been God's purpose from BEFORE the foundation of the world

(Ephesians 1:4, 3:11)

PROPHETIC

This program has been temporarily DELAYED

(Romans 9-11)

MYSTERY

This program is NOW in effect

(Ephesians 3:1-11; Colossians 1:24-27)

PROPHETIC

The 12 Apostles called by the Lord while He was on the earth

(Matthew 10:1-4)

MYSTERY

Paul called to be an apostle from the ascended Lord

(Acts 9:1ff; 1Corinthians 15:8-10)

PROPHETIC

The apostleship of the 12 was to Israel alone, and then to Israel first

(Matthew 10 ff, Acts 3:25,26)

MYSTERY

Paul was commissioned as "the apostle of the Gentiles" because now the program of God is different

(Romans 11:13; Ephesians 3:1-9)

PROPHETIC

The 12 Apostles, under their commission, sought to bring the nation of Israel to repentance in view of them crucifying their Christ. They indicted them for the crime but offered them the forgiveness and blessing of God so they could participate in Israel's "at hand" kingdom

(Acts 3:12-26, 5:27-32)

MYSTERY

Paul, under his commission, announced that Israel had fallen and that God has temporarily set Israel's program aside and Israel's fullness and kingdom won't come until after the fullness of the Gentiles come in

(Romans 11:11-25)

PROPHETIC

The 12 Apostles announced to Israel that her last days were present. They lived in the days that all the prophets from Samuel and after had foretold of

(Acts 2:16-21, 3:24)

MYSTERY

Paul announced that God is now long-suffering and He had set Israel and the things on her time schedule aside and that the times and seasons are not being fulfilled now in this dispensation of grace

(Romans 11:11-25, 1Thessalonians 5:1-11; 2Thessalonians 2:1-7)

PROPHETIC

The 12 Apostles under their commission operated on a God established distinction existing between the Jews and Gentiles

(Numbers 23:9; Matthew 10:5-7, 15:21-28; Acts 3:25,26)

MYSTERY

Paul under his commission declares that the "time past" distinction is now done away and the middle wall of partition is broken down, God having made both one. Now there is no difference

(2 Corinthians 5:14-19, Ephesians 2:11-14)

PROPHETIC

The 12 apostles operated with the law still in view along with the rudiments of the world that it employed

(Matthew 5:17-19, 23:1-3 James 2:10, Matthew 28:20)

MYSTERY

Paul is given to declare to us that God has not put us under the law, but under grace and that today He is not treating us as children under the law with the rudiments of the world

(Romans 6:14; Galatians 4:1-11; Colossians 2:8-17; Romans 7:4-6)

PROPHETIC

The 12 Apostles during the 3 years of the Lord's earthly ministry never understood or appreciated the meaning or significance of Jesus Christ's death and resurrection (Matthew 16:21-23; Luke 9:43-45,18:31-34) Following Christ's resurrection and the 40 day Bible seminar they had from Him they understood the necessity of Christ's suffering and the benefits received from it, as it pertained to the establishment of Israel's kingdom glory

(Luke 24:25-27, 44-49, Acts 1:1-2, 2:22-36, 3:12-21, 4:8-12)

MYSTERY

To Paul God committed the full meaning and significance of the cross of Christ. He preached the cross and Christ crucified. The good news about His death, burial and resurrection - proclaiming it in all its glory as "the power of God and the wisdom of God." Also to Paul was committed the testimony concerning Christ giving Himself a ransom for all men

(1Corinthians 1:18, 23; 1Timothy 2:1-7; 1Corinthians 2:6-8; Ephesians 1:8-10)

PROPHETIC

The 12 Apostles were commissioned in their apostleship to bring Israel's rebelliousness to a head and in doing so vindicate the outpouring of God's wrath upon that generation

(Matthew 23:29-36; Luke 11:45-51)

MYSTERY

Paul was commissioned to proclaim that God is now longsuffering and is extending mercy and grace to all in spite of Israel's climactic rebelliousness.

(Romans 11:28-36)

"...that in all things He might have the preeminence ..". (Colossians 1:18)

It is by means of these two programs that the Lord Jesus Christ will have the preeminence on the earth and in the heavenly places.

Rightly Dividing cuts straight the word of God in those places where God has directed His paths, submitting to all Scripture, honoring that which is different.

Edited August 11, 2005 by sail2awe

[sail2awe]

I just clicked on the link which the threadholder posted and must say I disagree w/Wikipedia. I have been called an ultra dispensationalist, but have never met a person in this catagory of label to ""emphasizes prophecy of the end-times and the pre-tribulation rapture..."".

I just wanted to state my position.

That the HS gave to earthen vessel Paul, to make known we are in the dispensation called grace is beyond question and without doubt.

Eph 3:1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles

,

Eph 3:2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward

That this dispensation of the grace of God will find its fulfillment at the end of the age is also beyond question. From the words of our Lord:

Luk 21:24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

Rapture? Can't find any Biblical support for it.

DISPENSATION -=- "oikonomia"

ALSO TRANSLATED:

EDIFYING oikonomia

1Ti 1:4 Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do.

Godly dispensation which is in faith: so do.

Dispensation of Grace is one of Faith .

STEWARDSHIP oikonomia

Luk 16:2 And he called him, and said unto him, How is it that I hear this of thee? give an account of thy stewardship; for thou mayest be no longer steward. oikonomeō

give an account of thy dispensation

Luk 16:3 Then the steward said within himself, What shall I do? for my lord taketh away from me the stewardship: I cannot dig; to beg I am ashamed.

taketh away from me the dispensation

Luk 16:4 I am resolved what to do, that, when I am put out of the stewardship, they may receive me into their houses.

when I am put out of the dispensation

Each of the kingdom parables foretell this. It is documented in the OT. The OT was one of promise. It can be seen as the dispensation of promise, when the Lord was working with them. The prophetic Lo-ammi of Hosea speaks clearly there will be a time when they are not my people and I will not be their God, which is the meaning of Lo-ammi. We see the tragity of Israel in climax, and we read those those dreadful words of Isaiha quoted for the third time to them at the end of Acts <28. 26-28> when the Salvation of God is sent to the gentiles, who WILL hear.

And a dispensation is committed to Paul for the hope of you gentiles, but you are against dispensationalism? That makes no sense to me whatsoever.

Edited August 11, 2005 by sail2awe