HEBREWS 6:1-2

[DeighAnn]

7 hours ago, Frits said:

Hi Ann,

I find it very special that the comment from verse 1 about the possibility of perfection (G5047) provides us with so much interesting conversation material.

When I was immersed in water 43 years ago and hands laid on me by the elders of the congregation to receive the Holy Spirit, there was one Bible text that took on special value to me.
These are the words of the Lord Jesus in John 15

John 15:3 KJV
'Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.'

What the Lord Jesus says is always true and I was so grateful to Him for these words that I have been living from this text for 43 years now.
I AM CLEAN.  And you are clean too, hallelujah, praise the Lord!

It's wonderful to read in your comments that this truth is also taking shape in all of you.

What privileged people we are, aren't we, brothers and sisters?  God makes known to us all His plans.

Joh 15:16 KJV Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

May the Lord Jesus bless you.

Frits

I often thank the Lord for the work done on the Cross.  I don't think I could have stood living under the law of the ordinances as I don't think I would have had enough animals or ever felt 'cleansed'.  Not to mention how AWFUL it would have been, NOT to be able to speak/pray to God directly and worse, confess my sins to a 'man' and have him go to God for me.  WE ARE SO BLESSED to be living under His grace.  

(Before I came here this morning I was pondering on what the Lord Jesus suffered to give to us this most needed (and 'EASY'? for us anyhow, not the right word but don't know what is) path to God and please forgive me as I go off topic for a second, but I was pondering on how much harder it might/must have been for the Lord to 'give up the ghost', being 'begotten' of God.  

 11 Depart ye, depart ye, go ye out from thence, touch no unclean thing; go ye out of the midst of her; be ye clean that bear the vessels of the LORD.  12 For ye shall not go out with haste, nor go by flight: for the LORD will go before you; and the God of Israel will be your rereward.  13 Behold, my servant shall deal prudently, he shall be exalted and extolled, and be very high.

14 As many were astonied at thee; HIS VISAGE WAS SO MARRED MORE THAN ANY MAN AND HIS FORM MORE THAN THE SONS OF MEN

How often do I not properly acknowledge the 'by His stripes', to be cleansed?)  

 
Back to the topic at hand

15 So shall he sprinkle many nations; the kings shall shut their mouths at him: for that which had not been told them shall they see; and that which they had not heard shall they consider.

Oh how much Truth and knowledge will be given us by the Lord.  I just PRAY that 'the deeper treasures' I have studied and searched out are His Truths.  At least I will be able to say "it is written" here and here.  

May the blessings of God continue upon you too

[Your closest friendnt]

30 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

I often thank the Lord for the work done on the Cross.  I don't think I could have stood living under the law of the ordinances as I don't think I would have had enough animals or ever felt 'cleansed'.  Not to mention how AWFUL it would have been, NOT to be able to speak/pray to God directly and worse, confess my sins to a 'man' and have him go to God for me.  WE ARE SO BLESSED to be living under His grace.  

(Before I came here this morning I was pondering on what the Lord Jesus suffered to give to us this most needed (and 'EASY'? for us anyhow, not the right word but don't know what is) path to God and please forgive me as I go off topic for a second, but I was pondering on how much harder it might/must have been for the Lord to 'give up the ghost', being 'begotten' of God.  

 11 Depart ye, depart ye, go ye out from thence, touch no unclean thing; go ye out of the midst of her; be ye clean that bear the vessels of the LORD.  12 For ye shall not go out with haste, nor go by flight: for the LORD will go before you; and the God of Israel will be your rereward.  13 Behold, my servant shall deal prudently, he shall be exalted and extolled, and be very high.

14 As many were astonied at thee; HIS VISAGE WAS SO MARRED MORE THAN ANY MAN AND HIS FORM MORE THAN THE SONS OF MEN

How often do I not properly acknowledge the 'by His stripes', to be cleansed?)  

 
Back to the topic at hand

15 So shall he sprinkle many nations; the kings shall shut their mouths at him: for that which had not been told them shall they see; and that which they had not heard shall they consider.

Oh how much Truth and knowledge will be given us by the Lord.  I just PRAY that 'the deeper treasures' I have studied and searched out are His Truths.  At least I will be able to say "it is written" here and here.  

May the blessings of God continue upon you too

Reading some parts of your post it makes me to wonder if you have lived in the past as someone under the law of Moses. 

[Frits]

4 hours ago, Josheb said:

How do you understand that verse, Frits? Do you believe it is possible to be perfect on this side of the grave (after having already been previously corrupted by sin)? 

No Christian knows the day of his or her decease, and that is irrelevant.
But the already deceased Christians now reside with the Lord Jesus, while we (and others after us) are still living on the earth.
But at the last trumpet
Christians on earth will be changed. (1Cor.15:51)
They will then receive the heavenly perfection in spirit, soul and body.
Which means that the Lord Jesus considers them worthy to receive this great grace, while they in their earthly existence.
That they ever sinned does not matter, because God Himself has forgiven and put away their sins.

Psa 103:12 KJV As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us.

(The peculiar thing about this is that even if one were to try to travel east to retrieve the forgiven sins, the east is still as far away on arrival as it was at the start of the journey.)

So those are Christians whose body never goes into the grave. But I cannot say whether I belong to that category, because I do not know when that moment will be. (v52)

[Frits]

4 hours ago, Josheb said:

Do you find the few things mentioned in the opening of chapter 6 all there is to be listed? In other words, do you think that list is exhaustive or might there be other "beginning teachings" of Christ that should be learned and then from which we are to move? 

This being the case, I am not an apostle and I do not criticize their work or God's Word the Bible.
But I can imagine speaking in tongues would also be on the list. 
Because this is the most basic gift of the Holy Ghost that the Christian must use.
All the more because the Lord Jesus also mentions speaking in tongues and the laying on of hands together in Mark 16.

[Frits]

4 hours ago, Josheb said:

What do Paul and the other NT writers define as "dead works"? 

"Dead works" are works of iniquity that are done in the service of the devil and for which only one wages is paid, namely death! (Rm.6:23)

"Dead works" are works that, although sometimes even done for religious reasons, keep man in death. (Jh.16:2, Act 22:20)

"Dead works" are works that arise from the communion with evil spirits, the "fruit" of which is death. (Rm.6:21, Jam.1:15)
 

Jac 1:15 KJV
Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

[Riverwalker]

9 minutes ago, Frits said:

This being the case, I am not an apostle and I do not criticize their work or God's Word the Bible.
But I can imagine speaking in tongues would also be on the list. 
Because this is the most basic gift of the Holy Ghost that the Christian must use.
All the more because the Lord Jesus also mentions speaking in tongues and the laying on of hands together in Mark 16.

Agreed with one proviso, I would change MUST use, to SHOULD use. We should desire the best gifts, but we are not forced to use them

[DeighAnn]

1 hour ago, Your closest friendnt said:

Reading some parts of your post it makes me to wonder if you have lived in the past as someone under the law of Moses. 

I have lived it, but only through the reading and study and hours of thinking of it.  I used to give thanks to the Lord for the work on the Cross, but it wasn't until I truly learned what it was like for them, that the THANK YOUs I was giving to God came from a deep part of my soul, from a place of His knowledge, not my thoughts, a place I was previously unaware of,  and so could not imagine let alone feel.  Being able to find forgiveness as we do today is an insanely huge gift that I am glad I can now recognize.  I highly recommend taking the time to 'live' it, as it will change you in a way that can't be explained.  

[Frits]

1 hour ago, Riverwalker said:

Agreed with one proviso, I would change MUST use, to SHOULD use. We should desire the best gifts, but we are not forced to use them

You're right Riverwalker, "must" is too much like an obligation.
For when the believer finds himself in a situation where speaking in tongues is required, these words of the Lord Jesus apply:

Luk 12:12 KJV For the Holy Ghost shall teach you in the same hour what ye ought to say.

 

God bless.

[Your closest friendnt]

3 hours ago, Frits said:

No Christian knows the day of his or her decease, and that is irrelevant.
But the already deceased Christians now reside with the Lord Jesus, while we (and others after us) are still living on the earth.
But at the last trumpet
Christians on earth will be changed. (1Cor.15:51)
They will then receive the heavenly perfection in spirit, soul and body.
Which means that the Lord Jesus considers them worthy to receive this great grace, while they in their earthly existence.
That they ever sinned does not matter, because God Himself has forgiven and put away their sins.

Psa 103:12 KJV As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us.

(The peculiar thing about this is that even if one were to try to travel east to retrieve the forgiven sins, the east is still as far away on arrival as it was at the start of the journey.)

So those are Christians whose body never goes into the grave. But I cannot say whether I belong to that category, because I do not know when that moment will be. (v52)

3 hours ago, Frits said:

No Christian knows the day of his or her decease, and that is irrelevant.
But the already deceased Christians now reside with the Lord Jesus, while we (and others after us) are still living on the earth.
But at the last trumpet
Christians on earth will be changed. (1Cor.15:51)
They will then receive the heavenly perfection in spirit, soul and body.
Which means that the Lord Jesus considers them worthy to receive this great grace, while they in their earthly existence.
That they ever sinned does not matter, because God Himself has forgiven and put away their sins.

Psa 103:12 KJV As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us.

(The peculiar thing about this is that even if one were to try to travel east to retrieve the forgiven sins, the east is still as far away on arrival as it was at the start of the journey.)

So those are Christians whose body never goes into the grave. But I cannot say whether I belong to that category, because I do not know when that moment will be.  

I do not find anything in the book of Revelation that supports a lot of things in this post.

 

[Your closest friendnt]

24 minutes ago, Josheb said:

Thanks but that is not an answer to the question asked. I did not ask if we would be perfected at the last trumpet. I asked if it was possible for us to be perfect this side of the grave. If the last trumpet does not come in your lifetime or mine or DeighAnn's then we'll die like everyone else. Do you believe any of us can be perfect on this side of the grave? 

It's a simple yes or no answer.

This question comes with a default answer, No and No, it's not possible.