Waggles Posted March 18, 2021 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,790 Content Per Day: 0.77 Reputation: 983 Days Won: 1 Joined: 12/20/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted March 18, 2021 Here is a short very interesting YouTube video by Dr. Michael Heiser on the spiritual significance of water baptism for a person becoming a Christian. Dr. Heiser is addressing issues of concern arising from 1Peter 3:18-22 WHO Were The Spirits In Prison That Jesus PREACHED To? - YouTube 18 For Christ also died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit; 19 in which he went and preached to the spirits in prison, 20 who formerly did not obey, when God’s patience waited in the days of Noah, during the building of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were saved through water. 21 Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22 who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, with angels, authorities, and powers subject to him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Adams Posted March 18, 2021 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 25 Topic Count: 61 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 9,605 Content Per Day: 3.97 Reputation: 7,795 Days Won: 21 Joined: 09/11/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted March 18, 2021 (edited) 21 minutes ago, Waggles said: Here is a short very interesting YouTube video by Dr. Michael Heiser on the spiritual significance of water baptism for a person becoming a Christian. Dr. Heiser is addressing issues of concern arising from 1Peter 3:18-22 WHO Were The Spirits In Prison That Jesus PREACHED To? - YouTube 18 For Christ also died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit; 19 in which he went and preached to the spirits in prison, 20 who formerly did not obey, when God’s patience waited in the days of Noah, during the building of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were saved through water. 21 Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22 who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, with angels, authorities, and powers subject to him. Heiser never states that baptism saves you. He aligns it with circumcision. What you can say of one you can say of the other. The point is that the early church included the rite of denouncing all evil influences due to the angels that sinned. It is Heiser's way of saying that by attrition, we increase our number while decreasing their numbers. It is a significant supernatural poke in the eye for the principalities and powers when we publicly announce our faith. By now, everyone should know about the prisoners that Yeshua preached to in Tartarus. Edited March 18, 2021 by Justin Adams 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hopefully Posted March 21, 2021 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 52 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 1,323 Content Per Day: 1.07 Reputation: 1,465 Days Won: 5 Joined: 12/07/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted March 21, 2021 Thank you for sharing this and spreading the message of being baptized. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waggles Posted March 21, 2021 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,790 Content Per Day: 0.77 Reputation: 983 Days Won: 1 Joined: 12/20/2017 Status: Offline Author Share Posted March 21, 2021 3 hours ago, Hopefully said: Thank you for sharing this and spreading the message of being baptized. My pleasure. Michael is no spiritual guru, but he does know a great deal about ancient near east religious history and culture pertaining to the gods of Mesopotamia and the Levant. And he actually reads the Bible in Hebrew and can read Sumerian texts. I have always understood the power and significance of full immersion baptism for not only is it confessing Christ Jesus before other people (scripture) but it is the desire to put to death the old body of sin (scripture) and then to partake of the resurrection of Jesus (scripture) and because we do this then our past sins are forgiven us (scripture). It is spiritually significant more than Michael alludes to. And to be honest I had not thought of that aspect about resurrection from the underworld and poking Lucifer in the eye. Maybe it is part of (1Cor 6:3) Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life? It greatly dismays me that a fundamental commandment such as being water baptised by immersion can be cast aside and denied as necessary. Baptism is biblical and spiritual right from the beginning. For we are taught that Moses and the children of Israel went through the waters of the Red Sea which closed behind them signifying no return, and death to Egypt and her false gods. Now they could only go forward to the Promised Land; just as we also must only go forward to our prize. Also given that God himself underwent water baptism to fulfill all righteousness how much more then should we as disciples follow in the footsteps of our Master and teacher? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hopefully Posted March 22, 2021 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 52 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 1,323 Content Per Day: 1.07 Reputation: 1,465 Days Won: 5 Joined: 12/07/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted March 22, 2021 4 hours ago, Waggles said: Also given that God himself underwent water baptism to fulfill all righteousness how much more then should we as disciples follow in the footsteps of our Master and teacher? Amen! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sower Posted March 22, 2021 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 14 Topic Count: 32 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 5,251 Content Per Day: 0.97 Reputation: 5,858 Days Won: 1 Joined: 07/09/2009 Status: Offline Share Posted March 22, 2021 The poor thief on the cross is getting worried again... It was quiet some time after my salvation before I 'fully' understood about baptism. Having been baptized already as an infant in the RCC caused me pause. I questioned the importance/implications of getting re-baptized. Did infant baptism suffice(), or was it necessary to get re baptized? 4 hours ago, Waggles said: I have always understood the power and significance of full immersion baptism for not only is it confessing Christ Jesus before other people (scripture) but it is the desire to put to death the old body of sin (scripture) and then to partake of the resurrection of Jesus (scripture) and "because we do this then our past sins are forgiven us (scripture)." Would you say had I died after salvation, (or almost salvation:), before getting baptized, would I have been enough saved or would I have been doomed to eternal damnation? Would I still have all my sins not forgiven as I understand your statement above? Thanks for your reply, Waggles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waggles Posted March 22, 2021 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,790 Content Per Day: 0.77 Reputation: 983 Days Won: 1 Joined: 12/20/2017 Status: Offline Author Share Posted March 22, 2021 1 hour ago, Sower said: Would you say had I died after salvation, (or almost salvation:), before getting baptized, would I have been enough saved or would I have been doomed to eternal damnation? Would I still have all my sins not forgiven as I understand your statement above? Thanks for your reply, Waggles. You come across as someone who is still in religious instruction classes learning from a Catholic Catechism. We made up our own fun in these lessons with a multitude of "what if" questions. But God saved me from a Catechism based religion and brought me into a personal relationship with him because I read the word of God and believed it. Then I repented and confessed my faith before others in the waters of baptism. And later I sought for the baptism of the Holy Spirit and was infilled wonderfully and spoke in tongues by the Spirit. My life changed instantly for the better and I was set free. Just do it God's way as written down in scripture . No Catechisms, no theology books. Scripture is sufficient unto salvation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waggles Posted March 22, 2021 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,790 Content Per Day: 0.77 Reputation: 983 Days Won: 1 Joined: 12/20/2017 Status: Offline Author Share Posted March 22, 2021 (edited) Baptism To be baptized indicates a willingness to bury your old way of life. Romans 6:4,5 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: Baptism is a type of a burial service, just as Jesus died and was buried and rose again from the dead, so baptism is a type for that process. However our new life is not complete without receiving a new Spirit to enliven us. If that happens before baptism, it doesn’t mean we don’t need to be baptized. On the contrary it is still important, otherwise we are still dragging the old dead man around with us. We need to bury that old man of sin. Is baptism necessary? The real question is, why would anyone think that it isn’t. On the day of Pentecost Peter told those that asked “Men and brethren, what do we do?” Peter told them three things, repent, get baptized, and receive the Holy spirit. Why mention baptism if God doesn’t think it is necessary. God is not the author of confusion, man is! Peter even said to Cornelius and his family in Acts 10 after they received the Holy Spirit (just like they did in the beginning), who can forbid water that they should not be baptized? Which was in response to seeing and hearing the evidence of them receiving the Holy Spirit. He then commanded them to be baptized. The word “baptize” taken from the original Greek can mean nothing less than full immersion, right under the water. It cannot (as some churches believe) mean the water of birth either otherwise Jesus’ words to his disciples in Matthew 28:19 were wrong and confusing. Jesus told them to teach all things he taught and to baptize in the name of the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit. A baby can be taught nothing at birth, nor can it believe anything, nor can it repent. The whole concept of birth water is ridiculously unscriptural. Home - THE REVIVAL FELLOWSHIP, FRESNO (trffresno.org) Edited March 22, 2021 by Waggles 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sower Posted March 22, 2021 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 14 Topic Count: 32 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 5,251 Content Per Day: 0.97 Reputation: 5,858 Days Won: 1 Joined: 07/09/2009 Status: Offline Share Posted March 22, 2021 1 hour ago, Sower said: The poor thief on the cross is getting worried again... It was quiet some time after my salvation before I 'fully' understood about baptism. Having been baptized already as an infant in the RCC caused me pause. I questioned the importance/implications of getting re-baptized. Did infant baptism suffice(), or was it necessary to get re baptized? Would you say had I died after salvation, (or almost salvation:), before getting baptized, would I have been enough saved or would I have been doomed to eternal damnation? Would I still have all my sins not forgiven as I understand your statement above? Thanks for your reply, Waggles. Just now, Waggles said: You come across as someone who is still in religious instruction classes learning from a Catholic Catechism. We made up our own fun in these lessons with a multitude of "what if" questions. But God saved me from a Catechism based religion and brought me into a personal relationship with him because I read the word of God and believed it. Then I repented and confessed my faith before others in the waters of baptism. And later I sought for the baptism of the Holy Spirit and was infilled wonderfully and spoke in tongues by the Spirit. My life changed instantly for the better and I was set free. Just do it God's way as written down in scripture . No Catechisms, no theology books. Scripture is sufficient unto salvation. I left the RCC after 30+yrs, when I heard the gospel and was saved.(for 40+yrs.) As I said in my previous post, I took the time to fully understand the importance of publicly identifying myself in Christ through baptism, before finally getting baptized. So you had your 'what if fun', but can you not answer my question? Should I have died without being baptized, (Do you believe, Waggles) I would go to hell? y/n A non answer will answer. Thank you for your reply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waggles Posted March 22, 2021 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,790 Content Per Day: 0.77 Reputation: 983 Days Won: 1 Joined: 12/20/2017 Status: Offline Author Share Posted March 22, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Sower said: Should I have died without being baptized, (Do you believe, Waggles) I would go to hell? y/n Yes possibly No maybe In the end it is Jesus who will decide on the secrets of your heart; your obedience to the word of God; your circumstances. He will judge righteously and have mercy upon whom he will bestow mercy upon. Jesus will decide your fate, not me. Scripture is scripture and Christians are required to obey scripture. Acts 2:38 And Peter said unto them, Repent and be baptized each of you in the name of Jesus Christ unto remission of your sins; and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 2:39 For to you is the promise, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, as many as the Lord our God shall call unto him. Acts 2:41 They then that received his word were baptized: and in that day were added about three thousand souls. Acts 10:47 Can anyone forbid the water, that these should not be baptized, who have received the Holy Spirit as well as we? 10:48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then asked they him to tarry certain days. Edited March 22, 2021 by Waggles 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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